Re: Cal\aghe v kessler : No winner?
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Originally Posted by miles
Kessler is in the elite? Why, did he stop Calzaghes toughest opponent? He has beaten a journeyman with a chin (Andrade), an old man (Beyer) and Mundine (Who cares?). Nothing is to suggest he is the elite. He is overrated big time and Calzaghe will get stick if it turns out as I think it will. Maybe not from you, but from others!
I hate to do it again...but I disagree with the above...Kess is def in the elite of 168. He's the #2 man for lordy's sake.
Kessler & Calzaghe are the elite.
They are the top two of their game & for that matter so is Mundane...even though I aint buyin what he's selling.
Kessler has proven that he is the top man of 168 & thus in the elite standings. If here were to dispatch Joe, which is hard to see, then he would most definently have stamped ELITE all over his fwockin noggin.
Re: Cal\aghe v kessler : No winner?
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Wacko Lacy was never elite as P4P said he struggled with Sheika and others who are far from elite i don't care where he was rated or how much hype he got but he was never elite.
I've never quite understood what it is about things that I say & write that are so...IMPOSSIBLE to understand...but let me post it again:
"That statement is a bit incorrect. Lacy was never OFFICIALLY ELITE..."
Now...above should clearly state that Wacko said "Lacy was never OFFICIALLY ELITE..." & where P4P came into play...I'll never know.
If you don't care about the rankings or the spots or how they got there...I'll just have to scratch my head on that logic also...but Lacy had earned the shot by beating the shit out of everyone placed in front of him.
It makes no sense to discredit a man that had done such...especially stepping up so young in a career to face the top man in the division.
Again...I still can't figure out how you always seem to read twice more into what I'm saying...especially when it's totally in the opposite direction of what I said.
Re: Cal\aghe v kessler : No winner?
Absolutley agree about Kess being elite at 168, he validated that position with his win over Beyer, and his absolute demolition of undefeated prospect Andrade, who at that moment was the #1 pretender to the crown of #2 in the division. That's just on paper too, if you actually use your eyes and watch him fight it's easy to see he's head and shoulders above the rest at 168, and I reckon he'd mix it/beat the best at 175 too, just like Calzaghe. The top four guys between 160 to 175 who are capable of fighting at 168 are B-hop, Taylor, Kessler and Calzaghe. If Winky can beat Bernard he gets his spot in that 4.
Re: Cal\aghe v kessler : No winner?
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Originally Posted by wacko3205
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Wacko Lacy was never elite as P4P said he struggled with Sheika and others who are far from elite i don't care where he was rated or how much hype he got but he was never elite.
I've never quite understood what it is about things that I say & write that are so...IMPOSSIBLE to understand...but let me post it again:
"That statement is a bit incorrect. Lacy was never OFFICIALLY ELITE..."
Now...above should clearly state that Wacko said "Lacy was never OFFICIALLY ELITE..." & where P4P came into play...I'll never know.
If you don't care about the rankings or the spots or how they got there...I'll just have to scratch my head on that logic also...but Lacy had earned the shot by beating the S*** out of everyone placed in front of him.
It makes no sense to discredit a man that had done such...especially stepping up so young in a career to face the top man in the division.
Again...I still can't figure out how you always seem to read twice more into what I'm saying...especially when it's totally in the opposite direction of what I said.
I understood perfectly what you said wacko and i was saying about P4Pking a post he made which i was refering to as for Lacy he had major flaws which like me and P4Pking see against Sheika who Calzaghe beat crap out of and he struggled against few others aswell who wern't elite either and i don't see what is wrong in calling Lacy overrated because he was supposedly the lighter version of Tyson Lacy is decent fighter who got badly overrated and got beat by an elite fighter aka Calzaghe Lacy was never elite and showed some glimpses of good showings but thats it.
Re: Cal\aghe v kessler : No winner?
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Originally Posted by p4pking
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Originally Posted by miles
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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna
i would back calzaghe to win, but i know for a fact that if he does, there will be alot of people on this forum saying Kessler was'nt a top class oppenent and was unproven against top fighters.
Calzaghe can do no right in some people's eyes, which is sad because he's top #5 fighters to come out of the UK.
A majority of the forum members here were saying that Lacy would beat Calzaghe. Lacy was on a roll of hype and many were along for the ride. The fight then happened and Calzaghe beat him in the most one sided manner possible. Lacy has not been the same since. Most of Calzaghe's opponents havent been the same since they've taken a good slapping! And yet within a matter of months after the jubilation had worn down it was decided that Lacy wasnt quite the real deal and was indeed overrated. Overrated by whom exactly?? The bookies must have slipped up by giving Lacy such a huge shot and a vast number of forum members here must have been hoodwinked by sheer propaganda and screens and mirrors! :-\
A large number of people on here have again been crawling out to attack Calzaghe. He is a chicken! He fights only bums! If he doesnt face Kessler then he is a coward! So that means those same people are actually rating Kessler then? Rating him on what? Beating the mighty Andrade? Mundine? Or even the whirlwind himself...Markus Beyer!!!???
I think this fight will go ahead and the fans will get the treat they deserved. A decent fight between the best 2 the division has to offer. Kessler has a few "decent" names on his record but has shown little to suggest to me he will beat Calzaghe on skills alone. Does anyone really think Calzaghe wouldnt have beaten any of the fighters Kessler has beaten? Im not going to go into an analysis of how I think Calzaghe: Kessler might go but I am going to suggest that once the hoo ha has died down and if Calzaghe does indeed beat Kessler, that the same critics will once again crawl out and say that Calzaghe beat a green opponent! He beat a guy with flaws! A guy who wasnt Jones or Hopkins (even though they are old and never wanted a fight in the first place anyways!)....
You are damned if you do and you are damned if you dont! Boxing fans can be a fickle bunch! :-\
You make a good arguement Miles, but I don't think it's fair to draw a dead comparison between people giving Lacy a great chance against Joe and now giving Kessler a good shot and hyping him up... The thing is, hindsight works in two ways here.. I think it is valid to say that Lacy wasn't as good as many had thought, as well as that he hadn't beaten fighters as good as Kessler has(that has nothing to do with hinsight really).. Mundine, Andrade, and Beyer may not be p4p guys, but they were definetly a step up from an old Robin Reid and Scott Pemberton, who were really Lacy's only two impressive wins prior to fighting Joe. The other side of it is, that we now know how good Calzaghe IS at the present time, and what he can do in big fights, again thanks to hinsight. If Joe had put on a performance as great as he did against Lacy, and against someone who had been so hyped up, prior to fighting Jeff, I think it's very safe to say those people wouldn't have been nearly as confident in Lacy's chances to beat Joe. Wheras now, people know what Calzaghe is capable of doing in the ring, and he's gotten his dues, yet people STILL rate Kesslers chances at beating him very highly, simply because Mikkel has also shown great things recently, and has never really struggled with an opponent. Go ahead and watch Lacy's fights against Omar Sheika, Rubin Williams, Syd Vanderpool, or Donnel Wiggins. He had SEVERE troubles in all of those fights, and they certainly were overlooked... But that wasn't due to anything he did, or rather corrected.. Kessler is a much better fighter than Lacy ever was, and if people don't see that now, or deny it after the fight then fine, but you've got to ask what their opinion is really worth in the first place.
Very good arguments :coolclick:
I do stand by my argument that if Calzaghe beats Kessler then a fickle bunch will attest that Kessler was not all that good anyway. I do of course think Kessler is good and would beat anybody else in the division. Calzaghe is something else entirely though. Age or the hands might catch him, but for now he is undoubtedly better than Kessler.
I must admit that some of my arguments here, though driven, do have their flaws. I mustnt come back from the pub and resist sleep by coming on here! ;D
Calzaghe: Kessler is good for boxing. I just hope the fight happens...
Re: Cal\aghe v kessler : No winner?
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Originally Posted by wacko3205
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Originally Posted by miles
Kessler is in the elite? Why, did he stop Calzaghes toughest opponent? He has beaten a journeyman with a chin (Andrade), an old man (Beyer) and Mundine (Who cares?). Nothing is to suggest he is the elite. He is overrated big time and Calzaghe will get stick if it turns out as I think it will. Maybe not from you, but from others!
I hate to do it again...but I disagree with the above...Kess is def in the elite of 168. He's the #2 man for lordy's sake.
Kessler & Calzaghe are the elite.
They are the top two of their game & for that matter so is Mundane...even though I aint buyin what he's selling.
Kessler has proven that he is the top man of 168 & thus in the elite standings. If here were to dispatch Joe, which is hard to see, then he would most definently have stamped ELITE all over his fwockin noggin.
I did say in an earlier post that Calzaghe and Kessler would be the 2 best in the division going at it. By the time of the post you are quoting me here, well, Im kinda drunk and rambling a bit! ;D :-\
Calzaghe is the best and Kessler is number 2. I do think Kessler is a very good fighter, but I do think Calzaghe will do a number on him. None of Calzaghe's opponents have been reflected on favourably after being disposed of.
Re: Cal\aghe v kessler : No winner?
Granted it is a high risk fight for both fighters and I hope that WE will be the winner I predict it will be the fight of the year. I have high hopes for this one. 8)
Re: Cal\aghe v kessler : No winner?
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Originally Posted by thewhale
Granted it is a high risk fight for both fighters and I hope that WE will be the winner I predict it will be the fight of the year. I have high hopes for this one. 8)
The longer they take to fight the more in favor it'd have to be gor kessler as he is so much younger than Joe.
Re: Cal\aghe v kessler : No winner?
I think if it is a good fight it will be a win-win for both.. the most exposure for both world-wide by far..
having undefeated records will only make people say they havnt fought anyone good, at this point.. they need to fight each other
I think a win would help calzaghe more if it is a good hard fought battle.. It would cement him in the p4p at top 5 probably, and allow him to get any other fighter because he could garner so much money and attention..
The loss wouldnt hurt kessler too much if it was close and he shows alot of courage..
Kessler is a bada$$ without a doubt.. Ive seen andrade fight a couple of times before his fight w/ kess.. he was no journeyman but a true contender he would beat berrio the ibf champ no problem (he has d-problems but granite chin).. and kessler beat the piss out of him for 12..
Kessler has few flaws (good stamina, good chin, good work rate, focused, sound D, good jab, good power, CONSISTANT) and i could see him beating JC, d-hop, or taylor by ko or decision..im not saying he would but he is on there level..
a calzaghe win over him would be bigger than lacy even if it was close..
