Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
Quote:
Originally Posted by superheavyrhun
Unfortunately Danny_G, Ricky Hatton was not in the top 10 p4p fighters as of the most recent poll held by Saddoboxing, so he was not considered.
And thanks to Greg aka Killersheep, here are the stats on who has won titles in different weight divisions...:
Titles won in different weight classes (Big 4 only)
Mayweather - 5
Pacquiao - 4
Mosley - 3
Cotto - 2
Juan Manuel Marquez - 2
Rafa Marquez - 2
Winky Wright - 2
Hopkins - 1
Taylor - 1
Calzaghe - 1
Shouldn't it be the big 3 (WBC, WBA & IBF) instead? Ring magazine doesn't even acknowledge the WBO.
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
cc for the effort... ;D
i disagree w/ the ko% though
r. marquez, cotto, pac, mosely, would be rated in alot of top five p4p lists if mayweather stayed retired and mosely was more active..
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
Wow great job!!
"But of course, there is more to a record than wins, so here's the wins divided by defeats of their opponents, so the higher the number, the better win/defeat ratio of their opponents.
Floyd Mayweather Jr – 5.76
Jermain Taylor – 5.62
Miguel Cotto – 4.92
Manny Pacquiao – 4.70
Bernard Hopkins – 4.67
Shane Mosley – 4.59
Juan Manuel Marquez – 4.15
Joe Calzaghe – 3.15
Rafael Marquez – 2.93
Ronald Winky Wright – 2.89"
Was just thinking though could this not also mean that the fighters they faced had fought nobodys and therefore had a higher number of wins??
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
Statistics doesn't mean anything. They could have been fighting bums the whole time. I'd rather judge on my boxing reactions.
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Shouldn't it be the big 3 (WBC, WBA & IBF) instead? Ring magazine doesn't even acknowledge the WBO.
Very possibly...but then again I confess I have never read a copy of Ring magazine, so I wouldn't know that fact.
And as for the numbers, they are just that, one of the reason that Jermain Taylor came out very well was that he was fighting guys with decent journeymen records much earlier in his career than some of the other fighters, who were still picking up 0-2-0 guys 10 fights in. And indeed, that could mean that they've fought a lot of guys with padded records, but then again it's a sport not a numbers game as you mentioned, it's just the numbers are an interesting aspect of it, at least to my mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chum112
Statistics doesn't mean anything. They could have been fighting bums the whole time. I'd rather judge on my boxing reactions.
Your boxing reactions have led you to believe that Mundine is the third ranked SMW in the world....for now I'll go on the stats. ;)
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by superheavyrhun
Thanks for the props folks, and to answer your question Greg....indeed it was a slow day at the office. ;)
Basically, I admit that I did have a lot more stats in mind to bring together, but I ran out of patience and the girls in accounts were yelling at me for stealing a calculator.
As for the questions :- the first set of stats were based on the opponents record at the time of fighting, as that is how boxrec lists them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
This is a good analysis. If I were you I would take it a step further. Sometimes numbers don't mean much. There are some extremely over protected fighters out there with great records filled with nobodies. I mean look at Valuev.
How about a poll of how many current and former champions each has faced.
An interesting stat would be the KO% of the people they have fought. Just too see how dangerous these opponents really were.
Titles in multiple weight classes should also be a big factor.
Overall, great post and CC for good idea.
I agree that you can make numbers say anything you want, but I'm yet to find a set of stats that puts Joe Calzaghe above everyone else in the p4p list! ;) Weight classes is right to have a look at, cause that is an important one, and I imagine would make Mayweather look even better. I'll try and do it next Tuesday afternoon, as those are the quietest times of every week.
I'm sure if you rate people according to number of world title defenses in their home town then Calzaghe will top any all time list. ;)
I bet Pongsaklek will rival him!
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
Quote:
Originally Posted by chum112
Statistics doesn't mean anything. They could have been fighting bums the whole time. I'd rather judge on my boxing reactions.
Maybe looking at things from another perspective will help you see that Anthony Mundine isn't the world's best fighter. ::**
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
Stats can be easily manipulated. You can be a multiple weight champ like Floyd,skim through the divisions and pick and choose who to fight or you can be a Whitaker,fight everyone,unify,clean them out.
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
This is a good analysis. If I were you I would take it a step further. Sometimes numbers don't mean much. There are some extremely over protected fighters out there with great records filled with nobodies. I mean look at Valuev.
How about a poll of how many current and former champions each has faced.
An interesting stat would be the KO% of the people they have fought. Just too see how dangerous these opponents really were.
Titles in multiple weight classes should also be a big factor.
Overall, great post and CC for good idea.
THe win vs. loss of opponents though counteracts over protected fighters.
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
Quote:
Originally Posted by superheavyrhun
As we all know, the p4p list is one of the most often-debated and subjective things in boxing, and everyone has their own slant on what the p4p list ought to look like. Anyhow, I thought it'd be an interesting exercise to have a look at a few of the statistics of the top 10 fighters p4p according to all of the wonderful voters that put together the latest Saddoboxing p4p list a couple of months ago.
The first thing that makes a p4p great has to be the quality of opposition he has faced, and while records can be boosted etc to make anything look good, but basically, I've calculated what the average record of the fighters that each of the top 10 fighters have faced, and this time ranked them by who's opponents have the highest wins.
Average Record of Opponents Faced: (W-L-D)
Floyd Mayweather Jr – (27.4 – 4.7 – 0.9)
Shane Mosley – (24.1 – 5.2 – 0.7)
Bernard Hopkins – (23.5 – 5 – 0.5)
Miguel Cotto – (22.8 – 4.6 – 0.5)
Juan Manuel Marquez – (22 – 5.2 – 1)
Manny Pacquiao- (21.6 – 4.6 – 1.1)
Jermain Taylor – (21.6 – 3.8 – 0.9)
Joe Calzaghe – (20.8 – 6.6 – 0.6)
Ronald Winky Wright – (17.1 – 5.9 – 0.8)
Rafael Marquez – (15.9 – 5.4 – 1)
Figures are calculated to one decimal point, and one of the things to be noticed from all the figures I looked at were that Floyd Mayweather ranked incredibly highly on most of them. Also, one of the people most often criticised for facing opponents who were not up to scratch, Joe Calzaghe, did rank quite lowly, and his opponents had the highest average of defeats out of the top 10. But of course, there is more to a record than wins, so here's the wins divided by defeats of their opponents, so the higher the number, the better win/defeat ratio of their opponents.
Floyd Mayweather Jr – 5.76
Jermain Taylor – 5.62
Miguel Cotto – 4.92
Manny Pacquiao – 4.70
Bernard Hopkins – 4.67
Shane Mosley – 4.59
Juan Manuel Marquez – 4.15
Joe Calzaghe – 3.15
Rafael Marquez – 2.93
Ronald Winky Wright – 2.89
The top three all rank among the fighters who have had the least number of fights among the p4p top 10 of saddos, and once again Floyd does fantastically well. Taylor also benefitted from fighting against more experienced opponents earlier in his career, and this also was one of the best areas for Manny Pacquiao. Calzaghe, again failing to do well, and with him Marquez and Wright ranking in the bottom three both times in terms of opponents. The rest of the stats are a little more subjective, and are contributing factors to p4p status. First up here's the win percentage:
Win Percentage:
Floyd Mayweather Jr – 100%
Joe Calzaghe – 100%
Miguel Cotto – 100%
Jermain Taylor - 96%
Ronald Winky Wright – 92%
Juan Manuel Marquez – 92%
Rafael Marquez – 92%
Bernard Hopkins – 90%
Manny Pacquiao – 89%
Shane Mosley – 89%
Although there is obviously the argument that those who have the lower win percentages have been in more battles, and have really gone into the trenhes, and been involved with more rivalries. Next up here's the number of title bouts each has been involved in: (Big 4 belts only)
Title Bouts Involved In:
Bernard Hopkins – 25
Joe Calzaghe – 21
Shane Mosley – 18
Floyd Mayweather Jr – 17
Ronald Winky Wright – 16
Juan Manuel Marquez – 10
Miguel Cotto – 10
Manny Pacquiao - 9
Rafael Marquez – 9
Jermain Taylor – 5
And finally the KO percentage (of wins) of each fighter:
Rafael Marquez – 89%
Shane Mosley – 84%
Miguel Cotto – 83%
Manny Pacquiao – 79%
Juan Manuel Marquez – 74%
Joe Calzaghe – 74%
Bernard Hopkins – 68%
Floyd Mayweather Jr – 63%
Jermain Taylor - 63%
Ronald Winky Wright – 49%
And ultimately, here are my conclusions:
1) Floyd Mayweather's p4p status would seem to be deserved based on statistical analysis.
2) KO Percentage has very little to do with p4p greatness.
3) Jermain Taylor did quite a bit better than I expected him too.
4) Shane Mosley probably deserves a better p4p ranking.
5) Joe Calzaghe needs some big fights in his last few to cement p4p status.
Super-cool click to you. Great job!!
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
This is a good analysis. If I were you I would take it a step further. Sometimes numbers don't mean much. There are some extremely over protected fighters out there with great records filled with nobodies. I mean look at Valuev.
How about a poll of how many current and former champions each has faced.
An interesting stat would be the KO% of the people they have fought. Just too see how dangerous these opponents really were.
Titles in multiple weight classes should also be a big factor.
Overall, great post and CC for good idea.
THe win vs. loss of opponents though counteracts over protected fighters.
??? Sorry, you lost me here.
I think the one thing that shows how good a guy is if his fights agains world class fighters, meaning what is their reccord against world class fighters. The problem is how do you rate a fighter as World Class? So again I would suggest their reccord against former and current world champions.
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
WOW,sorry,Superheavy,I was lazy and did not read the first page. You worked this out yourself?? Thats awesome stuff man! Have a CC on me.
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
Nice one fella and i agree that PBF is the best P4P in the world currently with Pacman second and Wright 3rd in my books!
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
Wow. I never put a lot into boxing statistics whether it be record, win percentage or whatever but that is certainly compelling stuff. Fantastic. CC.
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
How about a list of the fighters whov fought the most past and present champs
