Re: What if Marciano hadn't retired?
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Originally Posted by THE Bigragu
I don't really see an "L"...maybe a 58-0 record......but remember he didn't retire because he was even remotely fading...he retired because his wife made him.....
And his manager was stealing money from him....there was talk of a Marciano-Johannsen fight but it never came to fruition.
His back was also hurting him in training....I can tell you throwing haymakers on a heavybag round after round will fuck your back up.
Marciano-Patterson would have been a GREAT fight. Marciano-Liston would have been good as well and I wouldn't be sold on a Liston victory either as I have seen Sonny beaten before buy fighters he couldn't bully and Rocky wouldn't be bullied that's for sure
Re: What if Marciano hadn't retired?
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Originally Posted by Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE Bigragu
I don't really see an "L"...maybe a 58-0 record......but remember he didn't retire because he was even remotely fading...he retired because his wife made him.....
And his manager was stealing money from him....there was talk of a Marciano-Johannsen fight but it never came to fruition.
His back was also hurting him in training....I can tell you throwing haymakers on a heavybag round after round will F*** your back up.
Marciano-Patterson would have been a GREAT fight. Marciano-Liston would have been good as well and I wouldn't be sold on a Liston victory either as I have seen Sonny beaten before buy fighters he couldn't bully and Rocky wouldn't be bullied that's for sure
Yeah good point Lyle, Rocky without doubt had one of , if the THE, best heart i have seen from a Heavy. Wouldnt be able to intimidate him, and you never quite know with him becuase as he keeps on coming and coming, eventually hes bound to land and needs a VERY strong chin to take that Suzie-Q flush.
Re: What if Marciano hadn't retired?
I think his best combo was the left hook followed by the right uppercut...he finished a lot of guys off with that too.
He had KO power in each hand and he'd hit you with the kitchen sink if you gave him the chance, as Archie Moore found out, he forearmed Archie on the top of the head while beating him into submission.
And Rocky never really got hurt by anyone's punches he got knocked down plenty of times but he never wobbled or got truly hurt by a punch....his defense wasn't good at all but his awkward style and constant pressure made it hard for his opponent to catch him multiple times with full power without getting nailed in return
Re: What if Marciano hadn't retired?
If he'd have carried on and fought up to 1959 I reckon he'd have lost to both Patterson and Liston. Not because they were better, but because Rocky would have been way on the slide by then. As Lyle said, he struggled with his back by the end and was fed up with the training.
It's a pity really because we missed out on a Liston/Marciano fight by just a coupled of years, which would have been IMO one of the best match ups in history. Prime for prime I'd still pick Liston to win due to his size advantage, but Rocky would have given it a hell of a go.
Re: What if Marciano hadn't retired?
Liston and patterson would give him problems but i'm not completely sold on him losing those fights handily. Patterson was annihilated by liston twice, so a power puncher that just keeps coming would have a good shot at beating patterson. Liston would be arguably the toughest fights of rocky's career and when you throw in his age by then, it doesn't look good but it wouldn't be impossible. Now fighting some guy named Cassius Clay around the time rock was approaching 40, is completely ill-advised.
Re: What if Marciano hadn't retired?
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Originally Posted by Lyle
he got knocked down plenty of times
I don't think so, Lyle - he was only knocked down twice in his entire career (Walcott and Moore). The Walcott knockdown was only a flash knockdown as he got straight back up and steamed into Jersey Joe.
I can't think of any other heavyweight champion who was actually knocked down less times than Rocky.
Re: What if Marciano hadn't retired?
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Originally Posted by X
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Originally Posted by Lyle
he got knocked down plenty of times
I don't think so, Lyle - he was only knocked down twice in his entire career (Walcott and Moore). The Walcott knockdown was only a flash knockdown as he got straight back up and steamed into Jersey Joe.
I can't think of any other heavyweight champion who was actually knocked down less times than Rocky.
2 times is right. Vitali never went down but he doesn't have the status of marciano or ali so i'm not sure if he's completely eligible for debate here. Ali only went down 4 times i think (Frazier 1, Wepner, Cooper, and i think there was 1 more). Twice is impressive.
Re: What if Marciano hadn't retired?
Joe Louis knocked him down early in their fight
Re: What if Marciano hadn't retired?
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Originally Posted by Lyle
Joe Louis knocked him down early in their fight
No, definitely not ....... I'm pretty sure it was only Walcott and Moore (there was big deal made during the walcott fight as it was his world title challenge and he had been knocked down for the first time in his career). He fought Louis before that, and was not knocked over.
I'm confident I'm right on this one, but if anyone knows for sure to settle the debate, I would stand to be corrected.
Whichever way we look at it, twice or three times is still very impressive!
Re: What if Marciano hadn't retired?
Joe Loius did not knock him down.
Marciano was getting old and eventually would have lost due to the hard training. He was desperate to win his 50th fight and tried to make a comeback when Patterson lost. It is reported he said that his back was done, and he could not beat Johansen. Even in his prime he would have lost to Liston in my opinion.
Re: What if Marciano hadn't retired?
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Originally Posted by VanChilds
If we say that Rock fought until 1959 which would have him retire at 36, and take out the management issues what fights were out there for him to make and how would he have faired? Obviously there is Patterson and Ingemar....Floyd is a great fighter but eventually would get his bell rung after out boxing Rock for several rounds...Ingemar was a slugger and would get KO'd inside two rounds....I think that Liston is to young, who else would have been there from 1955 to 1959 for Marciano to fight, and how is was there anyone out there that could have put an L on his record?
Marciano was fading the moore fight was evidence of this. If he had continued boxing he would have lost to patterson or johannson.
Re: What if Marciano hadn't retired?
Misconception about Liston that he was a bully
Look at Liston/Whitehurst
When Liston was at his best he was a methodical stalker,who not unlike Holmes used a powerful piston of a jab to wear down an opponent,Marciano would have been tailor made for Liston
Re: What if Marciano hadn't retired?
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Originally Posted by X
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
he got knocked down plenty of times
I don't think so, Lyle - he was only knocked down twice in his entire career (Walcott and Moore). The Walcott knockdown was only a flash knockdown as he got straight back up and steamed into Jersey Joe.
I can't think of any other heavyweight champion who was actually knocked down less times than Rocky.
kind of skirting the rules here but other than to Tyson did Spinks ever go down?
Re: What if Marciano hadn't retired?
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Originally Posted by VanChilds
Quote:
Originally Posted by X
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
he got knocked down plenty of times
I don't think so, Lyle - he was only knocked down twice in his entire career (Walcott and Moore). The Walcott knockdown was only a flash knockdown as he got straight back up and steamed into Jersey Joe.
I can't think of any other heavyweight champion who was actually knocked down less times than Rocky.
kind of skirting the rules here but other than to Tyson did Spinks ever go down?
He was knocked down by Dwight Muhammad Qawi i don't believe anyone else floored him other than Qawi and Tyson.
Re: What if Marciano hadn't retired?
