I Officially hate Wlad (and his nuthuggers) more than MMA

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Originally Posted by Punisher136

I almost feel compelled to hate him now to keep some sort of balance here.

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Well then their conspiracy to forge Punisher into a poster with little to no credibility is complete ;D


I'm not saying Wlad is great but I am saying he has the opportunity to become great and you must concede that the guy could win damn near 60 fights and have 50+ KO's....which puts him on par with guys like Foreman....now he hasn't beaten a Joe Frazier yet but he has beaten Sam Peter who was a dangerous undefeated fighter and I think right now it's the fight that defines his career....and he has avenged a loss.


Wlad is the best heavyweight out there and I think you pretty much have to admit that as well.

.....also I hate Floyd Mayweather Jr....but he doesn't make me hate boxing.....you just can't be a fan of everyone.



If you want to put the "crazies" in their place be honest with them and give some good hard facts....bringing up old losses isn't enough for me to consider your point.


Facts are Wladimir hasn't beaten another great fighter in his prime but there are no greats out there for him to beat so he has to unify and retire with the title...then he could be great but until he does it he's just another very good heavyweight

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Originally Posted by Lyle

.....also I hate Floyd Mayweather Jr....but he doesn't make me hate boxing.....you just can't be a fan of everyone.



If you want to put the "crazies" in their place be honest with them and give some good hard facts....bringing up old losses isn't enough for me to consider your point.


Facts are Wladimir hasn't beaten another great fighter in his prime but there are no greats out there for him to beat so he has to unify and retire with the title...then he could be great but until he does it he's just another very good heavyweight

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:appl: very well put Lyle.

I'm with yee on this one.
Me thinks Wladdy is the best Heavy around.
But he still has some wins to go by before people can consider him with the rest of the gang.

His biggest issue here like you pointed out is whos the biggest name out there for him that can solidify his career?

Peter
Maskaev
Chagaev
Ibragimov
McCall
Virchis

I think a good fight for him would be Valuev and beyond that Holyfield.....I don't bring Evander up just because he's old and obviously out of it but like Moorer-Foreman it's a fight that could bring intrest back to the heavyweight division if Evander can keep up his winning.

Nicolay is just a really big guy and if Wlad could blast him out in a devistating fashion it would boost the appeal of heavyweight boxing.


If Wladimir just keeps active and fights the best out there and wins, he'll be a great when all is said and done....maybe not in the top 10 but he could break in the top 15

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Originally Posted by Lyle

I think a good fight for him would be Valuev and beyond that Holyfield.....I don't bring Evander up just because he's old and obviously out of it but like Moorer-Foreman it's a fight that could bring intrest back to the heavyweight division if Evander can keep up his winning.

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Is see your point on Evander and it makes sense. I mean if Holy can continue to win why not Evanders got the most reputable name out there.
But stuff like that happens where the younger champ fights the older champ. ODLH-JCC, Alexis-Olivares, Marciano-Louis and so on.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Nicolay is just a really big guy and if Wlad could blast him out in a devistating fashion it would boost the appeal of heavyweight boxing.

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If Nicolay can come back and get 2 wins (depending on the opposition of course) I can def. see why that fight would mean something.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

If Wladimir just keeps active and fights the best out there and wins, he'll be a great when all is said and done....maybe not in the top 10 but he could break in the top 15

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Funny you metion this out of curiosity I checked Wlads standings among the all time PRIOR to the Brewster fight to see how much he would advanced.
In 1 source he was at #33 after the win they now have him at #30.
On the one source he advanced the most he was rated at #41 and now after the win they have moved him up to #33.
All-time.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

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Originally Posted by amat

Haha, be glad you weren't here when Sevenduece was ;D

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;D

You know I actually joined the forum because of Sevendeuce. ;D

I had been just reading some of the posts for a week or so as a guest, not even really thinking about joining, when I just got so annoyed with sevendeuce's bullshit posts that I decided to join just so I could respond in one of the threads.

Would have thought it was a bit ridiculous if somebody had told me I'd eventually post on here over 6000 times.

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Think I remember you posting that before.

I remember once in the leadup to Peter - Klitschko, I posted that stamina was a big question mark for Wlad. And at the time it definitely was. He saw it and then went on a huge rant about how he was sick of new members coming along and posting BS and all this. When all I said was he had stamina problems. He reminded me of a boxingscene poster.

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Originally Posted by TYSONMAYWEATHER

I don't like Wlad and i think he is the weakest of the 4 champs

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Thats a joke man he's easily the best of the 4 hes just not undisputed material imo. But while you and others say shit like "Brewster wasn't trying" and "what about his eye?" i say his eyes not an issue and that wlads the best in the division and it was a equal playing field fight and i get labeled a hater by some idiots. W/e

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Punisher136

I almost feel compelled to hate him now to keep some sort of balance here.

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Well then their conspiracy to forge Punisher into a poster with little to no credibility is complete ;D


I'm not saying Wlad is great but I am saying he has the opportunity to become great and you must concede that the guy could win damn near 60 fights and have 50+ KO's....which puts him on par with guys like Foreman....now he hasn't beaten a Joe Frazier yet but he has beaten Sam Peter who was a dangerous undefeated fighter and I think right now it's the fight that defines his career....and he has avenged a loss.


Wlad is the best heavyweight out there and I think you pretty much have to admit that as well.

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I have admitted that, thats whats pissing me off about you people. ;D

I think he needs to stay around for a few more years because theres some really great potential talent coming up and if he holds his own against some from the next era he'd have it locked. He's not a bum by any stretch of the imagination hes just not one of those guys thats gonna retire and be in the top 5 regardless of what he does from here on out. I'm getting tired of him not unifying (this is your main argument on why he deserves a high spot and he hasn't done it yet, not that anyone's expecting him not to). I know he said he was going to but my friend who doesn't even like boxing since tyson faded away knows who vitali and wlad are and i don't understand how He doesn't have enough clout to negotiate a unification match but ruslan and sultan do.

The purity loss might not be relevant now but it will be when he retires. While your fighting its who you beat that gets you credit, after you retire its who you lost to that could take it away. Sanders and Brewster aren't bums. They both have respectable records and those won't be an issue. Years from now after hes retired (assuming he doesn't lose again to someone ponderous), they'll look back and see that he was ranked up there with lennox, ali, and louis and then they'll see the purity loss.


Ali's Losses:

Frazier's only losses are to ali and foreman

Holmes damn near broke maricano's record

Berbick wasn't great but he wasn't a total bum

Norton was competitive in the golden era so he's not a bum

Ali rematched spinks and proved it was a fluke and that he had an off night.


Lennox's Losses:

McCall which he rematched and proved it was a fluke

Rahman which he rematched and proved it was a fluke

Draw with holyfield who many consider a lock for the hall of fame.


Louis's losses:

Schmeling was one of the best fighters around at the time

Charles almost stopped marciano

Marciano is the only heavyweight to retire undefeated as champion


Wlad's Losses:

Sanders was a factor in this era

Brewster was a factor in this era

Puritty has lost to every name fighter hes fought except for wlad (he drew with morrison, w/e thats worth) and even worse vitali beat him not soon after making it look like big brother had to do it for him.

He needs to unify. If he retires without having unified, he stands no shot at the top 20. At this point, its just a record that looks good. He's 10-2 in title fights (which is actually better than foreman but look at who he fought). He gonna have to go on a holmes like run to have a chance because of his opposition.

Actually the title of this topic is no longer true because i've seen joe rogan "preview" ufc 73 with his backwards hat and deer in headlights look (probably suggesting that he's thinking "Fear factor was cancelled, why am i still on tv?") on sportscenter. The best damn sports show also had a best of rampage jackson feature where they showed some of his fights (all of which i felt were sloppy and boring and yes i watched most of it to make it easy for me to be contradicted with the line "If its so boring why did you watch the whole thing?" >:mad) and billed it as "How the biggest name in mma got where he is today". Before the liddell fight no one in america even talked about him in the mainstream media. They only interviewed liddell and kept billing him up to be the baddest man alive and since he's lost i haven't heard anything about him except for the spike guys choice awards where he won "most dangerous man" ::**.

If it would disappear back into the shadows from whence (is that even a word?) it came but still have some ppv's and its show on spike, i wouldn't have a problem with it, just don't try hyping it up as better than boxing (or give joe rogan any reason to be on tv) and we'll be cool. If you wanna say its equally and go back underground, i'll accept that.

Punisher just b/c Jackson wasn't a household name in the US, doesn't mean he wasn't known to the bulk of MMA fans. Hell almost no MMA fighters were mentioned in mainstream US media till the last 1-2 years. Jackson was HUGE in Pride for years. He has been in a number of the most memorable fights in Pride history. The fact that Chuck has been out of the public eye after a big loss is supposed to mean what? I think thats pretty much par for the field with any boxer/fighter that loses a big fight. The fact is that I haven't seen a single MMA vs Boxing thread in weeks (and I haven't missed them), but you perpetuate the animosity by antagonizing MMA fans with you unobjective rants. We get it dude, you don't like the sport and think boxings better and your welcome to your opinion, but stop suggesting that its anything other than your subjective opinion and personal choice of sports entertainment.

On a different note, whats the big deal with unifying the titles? The ABC Org's are such a joke and in my opinion are one of the biggest pariahs in boxing. Yes I'd like to see him fight Ibragimov/Maskaev/Chagaev, but that has nothing to do with them being a belt holders. The only belt and rating system that I respect is the Ring's. How long was Lennox actually an undisputed champ? The fans know who THE champ is instead of just a champ.

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Originally Posted by VanChilds

On a different note, whats the big deal with unifying the titles? The ABC Org's are such a joke and in my opinion are one of the biggest pariahs in boxing. Yes I'd like to see him fight Ibragimov/Maskaev/Chagaev, but that has nothing to do with them being a belt holders. The only belt and rating system that I respect is the Ring's. How long was Lennox actually an undisputed champ? The fans know who THE champ is instead of just a champ.

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If you put them all under the same guy they actually mean something. You usually have to beat other champions to get them so that signifies that you have fought the best (the ring belt signifies this too as it can only be won or lost in a fight between the top 3 ranked heavyweights). The close fans know who the champs are but its hard toe xplain to somebody who just watches and follows it here and there.

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Originally Posted by VanChilds

Punisher just b/c Jackson wasn't a household name in the US, doesn't mean he wasn't known to the bulk of MMA fans. Hell almost no MMA fighters were mentioned in mainstream US media till the last 1-2 years. Jackson was HUGE in Pride for years. He has been in a number of the most memorable fights in Pride history. The fact that Chuck has been out of the public eye after a big loss is supposed to mean what? I think thats pretty much par for the field with any boxer/fighter that loses a big fight. The fact is that I haven't seen a single MMA vs Boxing thread in weeks (and I haven't missed them), but you perpetuate the animosity by antagonizing MMA fans with you unobjective rants. We get it dude, you don't like the sport and think boxings better and your welcome to your opinion, but stop suggesting that its anything other than your subjective opinion and personal choice of sports entertainment.

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I'm not gonna lie to you i do hate it and i'm not trying to beat around the bush when it comes to that. I feel its very sloppy and its just a watered down street fight. Again i'll say it may be labeled as mixed "martial arts" but it takes places under rules that are different from any style they might have trained in. It takes place under watered down street fight rules regardless of what styles they've trained in. The prestige of the various styles they've trained in is devalued when you throw them all together and say "just about anything goes". It was originally founded to see what styles of combat would work best in real life combat situations (street fights) and they got their answer. There was no point in making it a sport unless you're just keeping them around to show the initial findings were right and in order to do that you'd have to have as close to a street fight situation as possible. That being said...

You and me deal with two different types of people when it comes to mma. You deal with the people who have followed it from its roots and actually know something about. I have to deal with people who don't know shit about anything. You don't have the hear people say "Liddel's the toughest man on the planet" Ok why? "He ko'd some people" ::**. They don't know shit about submissions technique or anything they just know its a fight. I actually didn't have a problem with mma until it went mainstream and i had to hear about it from people (these people i refer to don't know anything about either sport for the record and i don't expect them to be accurate representations of the sports fan base majority). I had to hear stuff about my favorite boxers being bums because they didn't fight in mma.

I'll admit they are probably a huge misrepresentation of the fan base as a whole but thats the people i deal with, not the educated ones.

If you want to send the people that know something about mma and not just violence over here, i'll gladly send over the idiots i have to deal with and i assure you, they'll make you hate mma too.

I'll be happy to educate them ;D I know what you mean though about uneducated fans....In the MMA forum world they are referred to as TUFers(the ultimate fighter) b/c most of them had never followed MMA till the show. Consequently they are pretty clueless about the history of the sport, Pride and techniques. You see alot of Diego Sanchez could beat Fedor posts from these guys. I've enjoyed seeing the sport grow and become more mainstream, but in return the fanbase has become a lot less educated on the sport. You and I seem to differ on one main philosophy: You see MMA as multiple disciplines (with some cross training) operating under a single sport moniker. I see MMA as its own unique fighting discipline that has evolved from the melding of these multiples styles. You are incorrect in the purpose of UFC's inception. The UFC was originally run and setup by the Gracies to showcase their little known discipline of Brazilian JiuJitsu against other styles to show that BJJ was the superior fighting system. So yes early on the participants were of a single discipline, many were not very good athletes and the fights were pretty sloppy. Furthermore b/c of the sports relative infancy if you watch the smaller orgs or even many of the second tier UFC/Pride fighters you quite often are seeing a sloppy less technical display of the sport. Now through the evolution of the sport most top tier competitors were previously world class athletes are and display quite a bit of technique and ability in their fights. As the sport continues I think you will see a better product more and more.