Re: Where would Evander Rank All Time PFP If He Beats Ibrigamov
Sorry JT, but there isn't too much point to this discussion since Sultan is gonna win which would give Holyfield yet another loss (I think that would be like his 10th or something)
As far as p4p status.......
He might crack the top 200. Jumping from cruiserweight all the way up to heavyweight is not a real p4p achievement because that's world titles in only 2 weight classes. If he came from super middleweight or even light heavyweight (and was champ in both of those) up to heavyweight then he might start making some p4p noise.
Losses to Bowe twice (in Holyfield's prime)+
Lost to Michael Moorer (also in his prime)+
and then a slew of losses to other various heavyweights (Byrd, Toney *a real all time p4p great* Donald, etc. etc.)+
= not p4p greatness
Having said that, if he does actually beat Sultan without the judges giving Evander some terrible gift decision, I will commend Holyfield and be the first to say that he may be in the top 25 heavyweights of all time.
Re: Where would Evander Rank All Time PFP If He Beats Ibrigamov
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
Sorry JT, but there isn't too much point to this discussion since Sultan is gonna win which would give Holyfield yet another loss (I think that would be like his 10th or something)
As far as p4p status.......
He might crack the top 200. Jumping from cruiserweight all the way up to heavyweight is not a real p4p achievement because that's world titles in only 2 weight classes. If he came from super middleweight or even light heavyweight (and was champ in both of those) up to heavyweight then he might start making some p4p noise.
Losses to Bowe twice (in Holyfield's prime)+
Lost to Michael Moorer (also in his prime)+
and then a slew of losses to other various heavyweights (Byrd, Toney *a real all time p4p great* Donald, etc. etc.)+
= not p4p greatness
Having said that, if he does actually beat Sultan without the judges giving Evander some terrible gift decision, I will commend Holyfield and be the first to say that he may be in the top 25 heavyweights of all time.
And he beat Bowe, and avenged his loss to Moorer by destroying him and ruining him to SHOT status
Re: Where would Evander Rank All Time PFP If He Beats Ibrigamov
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
Sorry JT, but there isn't too much point to this discussion since Sultan is gonna win which would give Holyfield yet another loss (I think that would be like his 10th or something)
As far as p4p status.......
He might crack the top 200. Jumping from cruiserweight all the way up to heavyweight is not a real p4p achievement because that's world titles in only 2 weight classes. If he came from super middleweight or even light heavyweight (and was champ in both of those) up to heavyweight then he might start making some p4p noise.
Losses to Bowe twice (in Holyfield's prime)+
Lost to Michael Moorer (also in his prime)+
and then a slew of losses to other various heavyweights (Byrd, Toney *a real all time p4p great* Donald, etc. etc.)+
= not p4p greatness
Having said that, if he does actually beat Sultan without the judges giving Evander some terrible gift decision, I will commend Holyfield and be the first to say that he may be in the top 25 heavyweights of all time.
And he beat Bowe, and avenged his loss to Moorer by destroying him and ruining him to SHOT status
He beat (robbed) Bowe the 2nd time they fought. Bowe came back the 3rd time and KOed Evander.
75 year old George Foreman reduced Michael Moorer to shot status, Evander was just picking up scraps
Re: Where would Evander Rank All Time PFP If He Beats Ibrigamov
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
75 year old George Foreman reduced Michael Moorer to shot status, Evander was just picking up scraps
Sorry dude, but Moorer was pitching a shut out till the 10th when George landed the thunder, hardly a means to making a fighter shot.
Holyfield smoked him something fierce and punished him real bad... Thats how you make a fighter SHOT ;)
Re: Where would Evander Rank All Time PFP If He Beats Ibrigamov
plus, to his credit. That 'robbery' you speak of was actually one of Holyfields BEST perfomances. (Funny how he's best performances came in the rematches ^-^ )
Re: Where would Evander Rank All Time PFP If He Beats Ibrigamov
To me holyfield will always been a total ATG, im not sure where he ranks and i don't think i would have him in the top 10 of all time.
but he is up there, as for winning this fight i don't think i would consider him any higher than he is now (where evr i have him lol) legecys are rgeat, but to me they don't place a fighter any higher or lower, they re-enforce an argument about where u have already placed him, they are sometime there to showa fighter could do things that others might question.
mainly p4p great lists i rank people by what they done in their prime, because to me whats what its for, like current p4p list its what guys are doing now, not 4 years ago...
it seems some people forget holyfield was never really a heavyweight, he was a cruiser but moved up for the big fights. going from cruiser to heavy isnt like going from welter to Light-middle, or middle to super middle, there is no few pound jump, your talking much much bigger and stronger guys to compete with. evander never really possed the power at heavyweight he needed to complement his style, it was his true warrior spirit that got him a lot of his wins (ofc his talent too) but lacking the power he really had to dig deep to get some of his great wins...
The third bowe fight, wasn't there something badly up with holyfield then? i know forman wouldn't shut up about his hear, that he shouldn't be in there, holyfield looked in bad shape very very early on, someting your not accustomed to seeing in someone like him...
Re: Where would Evander Rank All Time PFP If He Beats Ibrigamov
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
The third bowe fight, wasn't there something badly up with holyfield then? i know forman wouldn't shut up about his hear, that he shouldn't be in there, holyfield looked in bad shape very very early on, someting your not accustomed to seeing in someone like him...
He got hepatitis from some bad shellfish and against Moorer he had a heart problem and was laboring toward the end
Re: Where would Evander Rank All Time PFP If He Beats Ibrigamov
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
The third bowe fight, wasn't there something badly up with holyfield then? i know forman wouldn't shut up about his hear, that he shouldn't be in there, holyfield looked in bad shape very very early on, someting your not accustomed to seeing in someone like him...
He got hepatitis from some bad shellfish and against Moorer he had a heart problem and was laboring toward the end
always wondered if that heart problem stemmed from steroid abuse. i know they put massive preasure on the heart and with all the training a guy like he does could defo make it worse and cause a problem.
Re: Where would Evander Rank All Time PFP If He Beats Ibrigamov
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
The third bowe fight, wasn't there something badly up with holyfield then? i know forman wouldn't shut up about his hear, that he shouldn't be in there, holyfield looked in bad shape very very early on, someting your not accustomed to seeing in someone like him...
He got hepatitis from some bad shellfish and against Moorer he had a heart problem and was laboring toward the end
always wondered if that heart problem stemmed from steroid abuse.  i know they put massive preasure on the heart and with all the training a guy like he does could defo make it worse and cause a problem.
if he had been alledgedly doing Roids for as far back as 93-94 Holyfield would be dead or decrepit by now, with heart, liver and kidney problems  ;) plus he has passed every steroid test
Re: Where would Evander Rank All Time PFP If He Beats Ibrigamov
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
The third bowe fight, wasn't there something badly up with holyfield then? i know forman wouldn't shut up about his hear, that he shouldn't be in there, holyfield looked in bad shape very very early on, someting your not accustomed to seeing in someone like him...
He got hepatitis from some bad shellfish and against Moorer he had a heart problem and was laboring toward the end
always wondered if that heart problem stemmed from steroid abuse. i know they put massive preasure on the heart and with all the training a guy like he does could defo make it worse and cause a problem.
if he had been alledgedly doing Roids for as far back as 93-94 Holyfield would be dead or decrepit by now, with heart, liver and kidney problems ;) plus he has passed every steroid test
Many people (most who do them) have used steroids for a lot longer than a stretch of 7 or 8 years.
As far as the "He passed every steroid test," arguement.....................
Do you recall the MLB steroid bust that happened??
Guess what JT?
THEY PASSED TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bonds, McGuire, Palemero, etc. etc.
And in case you forgot, Holyfield (excuse me, Evan Fields who happened to live at the same address as Holyfield) was on the same client list as all those baseball players who got busted for using the steroid that passed drug tests.
Well, I guess we know where Evander's "heart," (or lack there of ;)) problem came from.
checkmate
Re: Where would Evander Rank All Time PFP If He Beats Ibrigamov
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
The third bowe fight, wasn't there something badly up with holyfield then? i know forman wouldn't shut up about his hear, that he shouldn't be in there, holyfield looked in bad shape very very early on, someting your not accustomed to seeing in someone like him...
He got hepatitis from some bad shellfish and against Moorer he had a heart problem and was laboring toward the end
always wondered if that heart problem stemmed from steroid abuse. i know they put massive preasure on the heart and with all the training a guy like he does could defo make it worse and cause a problem.
if he had been alledgedly doing Roids for as far back as 93-94 Holyfield would be dead or decrepit by now, with heart, liver and kidney problems ;) plus he has passed every steroid test
Many people (most who do them) have used steroids for a lot longer than a stretch of 7 or 8 years.
As far as the "He passed every steroid test," arguement.....................
Do you recall the MLB steroid bust that happened??
Guess what JT?
THEY PASSED TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bonds, McGuire, Palemero, etc. etc.
And in case you forgot, Holyfield (excuse me, Evan Fields who happened to live at the same address as Holyfield) was on the same client list as all those baseball players who got busted for using the steroid that passed drug tests.
Well, I guess we know where Evander's "heart," (or lack there of ;)) problem came from.
checkmate
So your accusing Evander of using Roids in his 12th pro fight against Qawi ??? thats were the legend of his heart started. Checksmashed ;D
Re: Where would Evander Rank All Time PFP If He Beats Ibrigamov
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
The third bowe fight, wasn't there something badly up with holyfield then? i know forman wouldn't shut up about his hear, that he shouldn't be in there, holyfield looked in bad shape very very early on, someting your not accustomed to seeing in someone like him...
He got hepatitis from some bad shellfish and against Moorer he had a heart problem and was laboring toward the end
always wondered if that heart problem stemmed from steroid abuse. i know they put massive preasure on the heart and with all the training a guy like he does could defo make it worse and cause a problem.
if he had been alledgedly doing Roids for as far back as 93-94 Holyfield would be dead or decrepit by now, with heart, liver and kidney problems ;) plus he has passed every steroid test
Many people (most who do them) have used steroids for a lot longer than a stretch of 7 or 8 years.
As far as the "He passed every steroid test," arguement.....................
Do you recall the MLB steroid bust that happened??
Guess what JT?
THEY PASSED TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bonds, McGuire, Palemero, etc. etc.
And in case you forgot, Holyfield (excuse me, Evan Fields who happened to live at the same address as Holyfield) was on the same client list as all those baseball players who got busted for using the steroid that passed drug tests.
Well, I guess we know where Evander's "heart," (or lack there of ;)) problem came from.
checkmate
So your accusing Evander of using Roids in his 12th pro fight against Qawi ??? thats were the legend of his heart started. Checksmashed ;D
He probably has been using them since he turned pro
Re: Where would Evander Rank All Time PFP If He Beats Ibrigamov
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
The third bowe fight, wasn't there something badly up with holyfield then? i know forman wouldn't shut up about his hear, that he shouldn't be in there, holyfield looked in bad shape very very early on, someting your not accustomed to seeing in someone like him...
He got hepatitis from some bad shellfish and against Moorer he had a heart problem and was laboring toward the end
always wondered if that heart problem stemmed from steroid abuse. i know they put massive preasure on the heart and with all the training a guy like he does could defo make it worse and cause a problem.
if he had been alledgedly doing Roids for as far back as 93-94 Holyfield would be dead or decrepit by now, with heart, liver and kidney problems ;) plus he has passed every steroid test
Many people (most who do them) have used steroids for a lot longer than a stretch of 7 or 8 years.
As far as the "He passed every steroid test," arguement.....................
Do you recall the MLB steroid bust that happened??
Guess what JT?
THEY PASSED TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bonds, McGuire, Palemero, etc. etc.
And in case you forgot, Holyfield (excuse me, Evan Fields who happened to live at the same address as Holyfield) was on the same client list as all those baseball players who got busted for using the steroid that passed drug tests.
Well, I guess we know where Evander's "heart," (or lack there of ;)) problem came from.
checkmate
So your accusing Evander of using Roids in his 12th pro fight against Qawi ??? thats were the legend of his heart started. Checksmashed ;D
He probably has been using them since he turned pro
Oh yea i rememebr Qawi's excuse *Holyfield looked dead in the 6th round then he comes out banging in the next round* its called being a boxer and having second wind Mr Qawi ::**
Re: Where would Evander Rank All Time PFP If He Beats Ibrigamov
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
The third bowe fight, wasn't there something badly up with holyfield then? i know forman wouldn't shut up about his hear, that he shouldn't be in there, holyfield looked in bad shape very very early on, someting your not accustomed to seeing in someone like him...
He got hepatitis from some bad shellfish and against Moorer he had a heart problem and was laboring toward the end
always wondered if that heart problem stemmed from steroid abuse. i know they put massive preasure on the heart and with all the training a guy like he does could defo make it worse and cause a problem.
if he had been alledgedly doing Roids for as far back as 93-94 Holyfield would be dead or decrepit by now, with heart, liver and kidney problems ;) plus he has passed every steroid test
Many people (most who do them) have used steroids for a lot longer than a stretch of 7 or 8 years.
As far as the "He passed every steroid test," arguement.....................
Do you recall the MLB steroid bust that happened??
Guess what JT?
THEY PASSED TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bonds, McGuire, Palemero, etc. etc.
And in case you forgot, Holyfield (excuse me, Evan Fields who happened to live at the same address as Holyfield) was on the same client list as all those baseball players who got busted for using the steroid that passed drug tests.
Well, I guess we know where Evander's "heart," (or lack there of ;)) problem came from.
checkmate
So your accusing Evander of using Roids in his 12th pro fight against Qawi ??? thats were the legend of his heart started. Checksmashed ;D
So tell me then, JT?
What's your whole stance on the whole BALCO investigation??
Was it Evander having the steroids (the same ones that all the baseball players used ;)) shipped to his house?
Or does Evander Holyfield have a roommate named Evan Fields that lives at his address that was having these steroids shipped to?
Re: Where would Evander Rank All Time PFP If He Beats Ibrigamov
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
The third bowe fight, wasn't there something badly up with holyfield then? i know forman wouldn't shut up about his hear, that he shouldn't be in there, holyfield looked in bad shape very very early on, someting your not accustomed to seeing in someone like him...
He got hepatitis from some bad shellfish and against Moorer he had a heart problem and was laboring toward the end
always wondered if that heart problem stemmed from steroid abuse.  i know they put massive preasure on the heart and with all the training a guy like he does could defo make it worse and cause a problem.
if he had been alledgedly doing Roids for as far back as 93-94 Holyfield would be dead or decrepit by now, with heart, liver and kidney problems  ;) plus he has passed every steroid test
Many people (most who do them) have used steroids for a lot longer than a stretch of 7 or 8 years.
As far as the "He passed every steroid test," arguement.....................
Do you recall the MLB steroid bust that happened??
Guess what JT?
THEY PASSED TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bonds, McGuire, Palemero, etc. etc.
And in case you forgot, Holyfield (excuse me, Evan Fields who happened to live at the same address as Holyfield) was on the same client list as all those baseball players who got busted for using the steroid that passed drug tests.
Well, I guess we know where Evander's "heart," (or lack there of ;)) problem came from.
checkmate
So your accusing Evander of using Roids in his 12th pro fight against Qawi  ???  thats were the legend of his heart started.   Checksmashed ;D
So tell me then, JT?
What's your whole stance on the whole BALCO investigation??
Was it Evander having the steroids (the same ones that all the baseball players used ;)) shipped to his house?
Or does Evander Holyfield have a roommate named Evan Fields that lives at his address that was having these steroids shipped to?
I'll maintain what I have said all along..... When there is dead on proof, prosecutions, arraignments, convictions etc then I will speak on it.... BALCO had some shady shiit going on but that lab had some cutting edge nutritional and innovative ideas that were on the up and up with legal supplements and vitamins... We dont always have to assume the worst  ;)
