mike tyson--joe louis comparison

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Originally Posted by Master

Tyson would ko Louis early, he was bigger and Louis was vulnerable early and Tyson was at his most devastating early. If Tyson did not do it early then Louis stood a chance. In terms of greatness Joe Louis was better but in a one off match Tyson would win.

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Tyson was HEAVIER but not taller than Louis...so I guess it depends on what you mean by "bigger"

Louis inspite what everyone would have you believe had a very good defense and good head movement and NEVER missed a punch because he was out of range...he missed but he knew his range better than anyone else.

Louis had natural power and in those 7 title fights in one year he scored 6 KNOCKOUTS! (and 1 dq win)

When people say in that video "Nobody could remember seeing a kid punch like this" you must remember this was only a decade past Dempsey and Max Baer who killed two guys was still fighting.

And he was the first guy to stop james Braddock who had a hell of a chin

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Joe Louis was the heavyweight champion for 13 years, defended his title successfully 25 times, and had 7 title defenses in one year.


Joe Louis is "THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME"

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ali was the greatest--and i think the people who say hes not secretly believe it 2.
ali would make louis look like an amateur---im talking bout the float sting aka the 60's ali. he would win over louis with an ud. if billy conn almost beat louis --ali definitaly can

not saying louis beat ali but ali had problems with lesser men then joe louis

Louis avenged most of his losses. Tyson did not.

Ali style wise would beat Louis no doubt, but this is boxing and he could land the punch.

I am not saying Tyson was greater heavyweight than Louis but he could have beaten him, he was bigger weight wise and he could have steamrollered over Louis. Lets face it that would have been Tyson's best chance.

...I think everyone underestimates Joe Louis, the greatest heavyweight of all-time!

I LOVE Iron Mike but I'm with Lyle on this one. Joe Louis was amazing,I've never seen a HW unload such short,powerful combinations.

Joe Loius is the second greatest heavyweight of all time behind Ali. However in a one off match he may have lost to Tyson but that does not make him greater than Louis.

Muhammad Ali for me was the greatest heavyweight fighter of all time.

Of course this subject is objective each man will have his own individual selection and reasoning behind his choice.
However I feel that there is a very strong case for Ali's election as the G.O.A.T.

1)Skills. In his era Ali faced another candidate for most skilled Heavyweight of all time; Floyd Patterson. In this fight Ali used a supposed Patterson shoulder injury to his advantage and throughly outboxed his disheartened opponent. For a demonstration of the more mature Ali's skill, see Ali v Clevland Williams.

2)Speed.Ali at his peak had spedd which was rivalled only by the aforementioned Patterson and perhaps later Jimmy Ellis. This spee was the key to Ali's brilliance. Similarly to Roy Jones Jr. early Ali relied greatly on his natural athleticism for such exhibitions of natural brilliance as Liston Ali 1 and Ali Cooper 2.

3)Power.Muhammad Ali's power in my opinion and i'm sure in many of his opponents opinions was underrated. He was the first man to stop Oscar Bonavena with a dynamite left hook after Bona Vena had gone the distance with Frazier and Foreman. Other punching displays such as those withWilliams and Liston illustarte that the lip could really smack...

4)Ring Generalship. For me this is wher Ali snatchess the crown of GOAT. His adaptability, intelligence and all round mastery of the ring was a heavyweight rendition of Maeldrick taylors or Floyd Mayweathers feat...On the defensive against Foreman, on the calculated assault against Terell or in a to and fro battle like the Thrilla in Manilla or the third Norton fight Ali WAS king of the Ring and all its contents. Every boxer aspires to have that presence.

5)Chin and Heart. Better chin than Louis. Bigger heart than Tyson...Ali was a true was a superhero in there! Finishing fights against guys like Kenny Norton and Joe FrAZIER WITH A BADLY BROKEN JAW, TAKING EIGHT ROUNDS OF ABUSE FROM YOUNG gEORGE fOREMAN...gETTING UP FROM cOOPERS LEFT HOOK...Getting up from Fraziers hook in 1971. Refusing to go down against Frazier in Manilla, staying upright against Holmes in the twilight of his career...


I attempted to start this analysis with a clear mind and unclouded judgement, but when one begins to examine the career of Ali, it is impossible not to be swayed by the man's brilliance. He was simply unbelievable and unquestionably the greatest heavyweight of all time in my mind.

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Originally Posted by Master

Joe Loius is the second greatest heavyweight of all time behind Ali. However in a one off match he may have lost to Tyson but that does not make him greater than Louis.

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1. Louis - 25 successful title defenses
2. Marciano - UNDEFEATED...he fought everyone out there in the division and battered them
3. Ali - give me a stat....just give me TANGIBLE evidence that he's the best, you can't he talked himself to #1. Thanks to the Vietnam issue he has this aura around him and it's complete bullcrap he was a great fighter but NEVER the greatest

Don't like it, tough shit


No other fighter knew their range better than Joe Louis, he never over extended himself he never lept it he stalked and he threw quick percise punches. That right cross would be the end of Tyson

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Master

Joe Loius is the second greatest heavyweight of all time behind Ali. However in a one off match he may have lost to Tyson but that does not make him greater than Louis.

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1. Louis - 25 successful title defenses
2. Marciano - UNDEFEATED...he fought everyone out there in the division and battered them
3. Ali - give me a stat....just give me TANGIBLE evidence that he's the best, you can't he talked himself to #1. Thanks to the Vietnam issue he has this aura around him and it's complete bullcrap he was a great fighter but NEVER the greatest

Don't like it, tough S***


No other fighter knew their range better than Joe Louis, he never over extended himself he never lept it he stalked and he threw quick percise punches. That right cross would be the end of Tyson

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Stats for Muhammad?
He beat Sonny Liston, He beat Floyd Patterson, He beat Joe Frazier, He beat Kenny Norton, He beat George Foreman....

and what????
Marciano beat Charles and Walcott as his crowning glories? (altho comprohensively outboxed in both fights.)

Louis beat Schmeling at his second attempt.(only after his defensive weaknesses were horribly exposed in their first meeting.)

I am saying there is nothing tangible about Ali's greatness....he holds no records...he was beaten.

Why does ALI get credit for decision wins and Rocky gets nothing for KO wins???

Joe Louis looked past Max in the first match, and after that loss in 1936 he didn't lose again until 1950!!!


But Ali didn't go to Vietnam so let's all go ape shit over him "taking a stand".....Joe Louis took a stand but no one gives a shit about that anymore.


Everyone can talk up Ali all they want to but all I have to say is he's #3 and no higher on my list forever and ever AMEN there will be no changes made to it

Thinking like that isn't exactly ideal tho Lyle, whats to say that Rocky Louis won't come along next year and be better than all of them? Will you refuse to change your mind then too?

You've heard the cliche: Boxing's not a sprint, it's a marathon?

Well in my view it's neither. In fact it's more like a Tri-athalon, the best is decided not by who is great in one single capacity, but by who manages to be above average in a number of different elements of the game.

In my view Ali was best because of his diversity, adaptability and mentality. He was not one set fighting style he could change alter and adjust as a fight wore on. The same cannot be said for Marciano and Louis as they had one gear, forward.

And Ali actually has something that neither Louis or Marciano can touch...
Have you forgotten about his gold medal?

Well to be better than Rocky and Louis you have to defend your title a bunch of times and not get beaten during your reign as champion.....when I say they are THE GREATEST I have my reasons.

The Olympic games are rubbish, as pro fighters Rocky and Louis were better, ask Roy Jones Jr what he thinks about the Olympics.


Being able to win all the time with "one gear" is pretty fucking impressive

The Olympic Games are Rubbish :tumbleweed:

I really can't believe you typed that Lyle. I really can't believe that.

You no that Roy has a grudge as he was robbed of his gold medal. You think that Roy would have trained that hard if he really didn't care about it? Would he still be bitter if he didn't care about it

Well to be better than Rocky and Louis you have to defend your title a bunch of times and not get beaten during your reign as champion.....when I say they are THE GREATEST I have my reasons.
Well Ali did defend a bunch of times ???
He was also stripped of his title and he forged a succesful comeback to regain the title!

One gear may have been enough in their era's but in Ali's era, (in which the best heavyweight competition of all time was present,) the one true champion needed several gears.