Re: Serious Question for all...Concerns our sport...Everyones input appreciated
Whoever mentioned the Boxers Union, I think theres something there.
I'm also sure the people from Canastota would be happy to hear and somehow help out in something like this.
Re: Serious Question for all...Concerns our sport...Everyones input appreciated
how could an up and coming boxer learn the trade of prop boxing without the pewople who hav been knocked out there last 4 or 5 fights... its natrul it happens i think you need these boxers to make the ones wiyth potential what they are today. tyson didnt start out by beating berbick, he beat alot of nobodys b4, people who had been koed.
Re: Serious Question for all...Concerns our sport...Everyones input appreciated
cc for starting this thread.
Re: Serious Question for all...Concerns our sport...Everyones input appreciated
I think the constant improvement of our sport and the consideration of the sports participants is an essential issue that needs to be addressed more, not only by ourselves but also by the various sanctioning bodies and organisations presiding over the fight game.
Boxing can be a brutal sport indefinitely, but in my opinion health problems are most likely to occur as a result of the preparations a fighter undergoes. Diego Corrales was often quoted on how he starved himself for a week before a fight and prayed for food before the Castillo fight. This could not have been healthy for a man in preparation for the most attritional bout of modern times. Perhaps the sanctioning body could control this situation by providing an official at-camp to monitor the fighters health?
As regards money, i once heard Michael Spinks once he got paid invested most of his money in time released accounts so as it would last him until the end of his days. Perhaps managers should formulate a sort of pension fund, taking a percentage of a fighters purse and inserting it into a specialised account which would be disclosed at an agreed time.
An imo ALL fighters should undergo an annual physical standardised and agreed by all bodies, proving not only sufficient fitness and muscular condition but also investigating possible cardiac, respiatory and cranial problems which could be greatly worsened by competing in the sport of boxing.
Re: Serious Question for all...Concerns our sport...Everyones input appreciated
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
OK I know it is a long one but give it the once over and give your honest opinion...CC for all who do
Over the years boxing has evolved into a sport of mega paydays. Money to be thrown around is there if they like to admit it or not. I know of course that many fighters do not make the mega payday's that are advertised in the papers for fighters like DLH, Tyson used to get ect..But the big high profile fights make so much money it would make your jaw drop. If they report that 5 million was grossed you can bet it is closer to 7 or 8 mil.
Boxing reform has always been a touchy subject and in all honesty one that never seems to go anywhere other then it being a cause worth fighting for......We all know of stories of ex fighters who stuck around to long or had nothing to go to after boxing and ended up on the wrong end of the tracks.....Though like I said it is a great cause and one I am for but it seems to be almost one that will always be an uphill battle sadly......
My point is this....I was approached by someone to work a different angle....If successful in even the slightest way it would be a major step towards something.....I just do not know if it would be a lost cause or not....Before commiting myself and jumping in on something just because it sounds good I would like to hear different opinions...Maybe pick up something here or there to help adjust the way to approach this...So Here it goes...as it was proposed to me.....
Obviously boxing reform is a bigger matter so it is decided to take small steps and force some adjustments...Since it is easier to have the powers that be enforce things rather then change an idea they creadted ( congress legistlative ect).l....
The idea is to petition the powers that be to force the promoters to have an insurance policy for every fighter on their card. In the event of a long term injury or death occured in the ring the promoter can and will be held liable if neglect was found to be a factor. The factors of neglect will be outlined as such.
1. The fighter injured is to be found to have been knocked out more then 3 times in the last 18 months in previous match ups
2. All fighters must undergo pre fight exams by not only a doctor of the promoters choice but an exam by an undisclosed outside physician to be named only the day of the exam
3. A fighter must under go 3 weigh in procedures. One 3 days prior to the bout, one the day befor the bout and one the day after the bout. In those weigh in procedures the fighter must not be more then 8lbs over 3 days before the fight and weigh no more then 8 pounds over the day of the fight.
If any or all of these criteria is plauseable and the promoter continues to allow the fight to take place he is 100% liable for any or all occurances that take place in the fight in which this criteria was ignored. The decision though made by the fighter to continue on with the bout all repercussions are to be compensated by the promoter.
If such accident does occur in the ring the promoter will be responsible for all medical bills, outside the monetary obligation to either compensate the injured fighter or his family with a lump sum agreed on before the bout or a continuous annual salary to compensate the fighter not being able to support himself for the duration of his life.
Failure to do so will result in immediate seizure of the promotion company, all of it's assetts. Reguardless who is named as chief financial officer of the company and the CEO of the company is liable for an undertermined jail sentence of no less then 3 years and no more then 10 years each without the possibility of parole. Also all other executives and members of the board will be stripped of their license to partyicipate in the sport of boxing in any manner for the duration.
The idea is to prevent mis match fights and to avoid fighters going into bouts at 100%...be it weight gain or what ever the case...
If the promoter is given guide lines he has to follow he will make the fighters follow certain guidelines....
Do you think it is or is not a worthy cause to get behind or do you guys think it is something that would be a failed effort???
I am up in the air on this and you guys know the sport just as well as anyone I ever have known so opinions are appreciated greatly
Wont work
A)What is a knockout?
Because a TKO can happen at the refs call,and is very rarely an actual knockout
B)Most promoters are allready carrying insuarance for the fighters,anymore would make small fights cost prohibitive
C)Most states allready call for a pre-fight exam
D)The added expense would more or less wipe out the lower level fights,guys dont get to 17-0 by fighting on HBO,and ESPN,they get there by fighting for $100 a round,and $100 winners bonus
Re: Serious Question for all...Concerns our sport...Everyones input appreciated
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucelee
As I have been championing before, fighters should have insurance in case they become invalid or when they decide to retire.
Boxing has so many world champions(title holders) that are suffering from extreme poverty. Take the case of Luisito Espinosa (from the Philippines). After he was defrauded by some organizers, he became virtually bankrupt. What has his boxing organization (WBC) done for him? These boxing organizations are simply forgetting what these boxers had contributed to them.
Boxers should be given retirement benefit for all that they have done. They are killing themselves in this sport to entertain us but it seems that people are not concerned on them after their retirement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikersk
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
I dont know if this is even inm the ballpark but what about a boxers union? If all the boxers could get on the same page, then we got something to work from...we may have to sit through some boycotts/strikes but hey football did it why cant boxing?
I'd be thinking more along these lines too. Once litigation and blame start to become factors the lawyers get their grubby hands on the money anyway. I would think some form of external body, whether it a boxers 'union' or some other group could be entrusted with funds to assist fighters after injury or retirement. If the various WBABC's & IBF's etc were to be made to put aside a percentage of $$ from the largest fights that occur each year this would put a significant amount of money aside to support injured or retired boxers. If former boxers were to promote something like this I could see it getting somewhere.
In addition it would be most helpful for fighters to have support from promoters and the HBO's of the world to spend time and money looking at what will their fighters do after their career is over. Invest in some education and training for fighters in managing money and in other vocations so that when retirement comes either enforced due to illness or injury or by choice there is something to look forward to. There wont be too many ODLH's and the vast majority of fighters wont make anywhere near the money he did/does boxing and not all of them can be promoters (It takes a special breed of greed). However I pitty the poor guy trying to teach James Toney accountancy or something ("That don't add up BITCH" - POW) but it's a thought.
CC's For your input
And one for you for the thread. This kind of discussion is needed in boxing in order for it to be continued to be accepted as a mainstream sport. Every other sport has indusrty funded/initiated welfare programs why not boxing when it is one of the higher risk sports and draws from the working class cultures where people generally band together to help each other out. I think boxing people are good at this but as an "industry/sport" maybe not so good.
Re: Serious Question for all...Concerns our sport...Everyones input appreciated
Brilliant in principle but would not be practicle...First and prob biggest obstacle would be getting some thing written up that all governing bodies agree with ... they cant even agree on the top ten fighters.. :badass:
So even with the promoters and boxers backing the governing bodies would still be arguing come armmagedon...
In meantime more accidents tragedy's and so on....
The boxer himself needs his insurance to cover his ass as much as is possible..
Hope this helps a little, but its only as I see it.. :beerchug:
Re: Serious Question for all...Concerns our sport...Everyones input appreciated
Re: Serious Question for all...Concerns our sport...Everyones input appreciated
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Whoever mentioned the Boxers Union, I think theres something there.
I'm also sure the people from Canastota would be happy to hear and somehow help out in something like this.
CC for the input
Quote:
Originally Posted by oakleyno1
how could an up and coming boxer learn the trade of prop boxing without the pewople who hav been knocked out there last 4 or 5 fights... its natrul it happens i think you need these boxers to make the ones wiyth potential what they are today. tyson didnt start out by beating berbick, he beat alot of nobodys b4, people who had been koed.
The if they have been KO'd three times in 18 months there needs to be the mandatory suspension time for the body to recover....The whole idea is to also protect the no name fighters who really do not belong in the ring and are used as punching bags...sometimes the fighter does not know what is best for himself...
CC for the input
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
I think the constant improvement of our sport and the consideration of the sports participants is an essential issue that needs to be addressed more, not only by ourselves but also by the various sanctioning bodies and organisations presiding over the fight game.
Boxing can be a brutal sport indefinitely, but in my opinion health problems are most likely to occur as a result of the preparations a fighter undergoes. Diego Corrales was often quoted on how he starved himself for a week before a fight and prayed for food before the Castillo fight. This could not have been healthy for a man in preparation for the most attritional bout of modern times. Perhaps the sanctioning body could control this situation by providing an official at-camp to monitor the fighters health?
As regards money, i once heard Michael Spinks once he got paid invested most of his money in time released accounts so as it would last him until the end of his days. Perhaps managers should formulate a sort of pension fund, taking a percentage of a fighters purse and inserting it into a specialised account which would be disclosed at an agreed time.
An imo ALL fighters should undergo an annual physical standardised and agreed by all bodies, proving not only sufficient fitness and muscular condition but also investigating possible cardiac, respiatory and cranial problems which could be greatly worsened by competing in the sport of boxing.
CC for the input....Diego Corrales is a perfect example of how guys would destroy themselves trying to make weight....That puts just as much wear and tear on the body if not more then thye actual fight at times....If the body is healthy it has a better chance to recover...the body is weak and defficiant of the things it needs and then takes a beating ages the body more......Diego was what 29-30 and self admittingly could not do it anymore
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
OK I know it is a long one but give it the once over and give your honest opinion...CC for all who do
Over the years boxing has evolved into a sport of mega paydays. Money to be thrown around is there if they like to admit it or not. I know of course that many fighters do not make the mega payday's that are advertised in the papers for fighters like DLH, Tyson used to get ect..But the big high profile fights make so much money it would make your jaw drop. If they report that 5 million was grossed you can bet it is closer to 7 or 8 mil.
Boxing reform has always been a touchy subject and in all honesty one that never seems to go anywhere other then it being a cause worth fighting for......We all know of stories of ex fighters who stuck around to long or had nothing to go to after boxing and ended up on the wrong end of the tracks.....Though like I said it is a great
Wont work
A)What is a knockout?
Because a TKO can happen at the refs call,and is very rarely an actual knockout
B)Most promoters are allready carrying insuarance for the fighters,anymore would make small fights cost prohibitive
C)Most states allready call for a pre-fight exam
D)The added expense would more or less wipe out the lower level fights,guys dont get to 17-0 by fighting on HBO,and ESPN,they get there by fighting for $100 a round,and $100 winners bonus
A KO or TKO would be considered the same thing....The insurance promoters carry has nothing to do with the fighters themselves being injured due to neglect.....The pre fight exam is a joke and consisit of blood pressure weight a quick look at the eyes to see how they focus and pretty much is about it in most cases
The insurance expense would more then likely be a roll over policy that carries card to card,,,,and that is also why there would be only certain things outlined...not saying that the insurance will cover a fighter if he is injured only if something serious happens when neglecting the outlined criteria......If the promoters are strickter on weight issues like those outlined then it would force fighters to take care of themselves better as well.....Nothing stopping promoters from saying in a contract you fail to meet weight you are fined...eg the 8 lb difference
CC for your input
Re: Serious Question for all...Concerns our sport...Everyones input appreciated
And one for you for the thread. This kind of discussion is needed in boxing in order for it to be continued to be accepted as a mainstream sport. Every other sport has indusrty funded/initiated welfare programs why not boxing when it is one of the higher risk sports and draws from the working class cultures where people generally band together to help each other out. I think boxing people are good at this but as an "industry/sport" maybe not so good.
[/quote]
In truth boxing has less serious career ending injuries to healthy participants then almost every other sport in the long run....Problem with boxing is and always has been that it is a sport of need not want in most cases...guys fight because they need the money at first it is a means to an end so to speak and it is exploited by guys
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamdaddio
Brilliant in principle but would not be practicle...First and prob biggest obstacle would be getting some thing written up that all governing bodies agree with ... they cant even agree on the top ten fighters.. :badass:
So even with the promoters and boxers backing the governing bodies would still be arguing come armmagedon...
In meantime more accidents tragedy's and so on....
The boxer himself needs his insurance to cover his a** as much as is possible..
Hope this helps a little, but its only as I see it.. :beerchug:
The point is not to ask the governing bodies...make it a law and that is that.....if it was as easy as approaching the governing bodies we would have reform already no?
CC for the input
Re: Serious Question for all...Concerns our sport...Everyones input appreciated
Very good topic....this is a problem in a lot of high impact sports and it makes me think about personal responsiblity more than anything. The ideas in this thread are all good but i have to belive that with all the money some of these big fighters make where long term health is really a concern instead of buying 14 houses and a ton of bmw's some money should be set aside for your own future....the only problem with that is what about the guys who take a beating and never really get the big payday hhhmmm sorry guys i don't think i've solved anything but this is a really good topic for me it's just that there a ton of athleats who are injured for the remainder of thier lives and broke but then again there are a ton who aren't you gotta take care of yourself no one else will.
Re: Serious Question for all...Concerns our sport...Everyones input appreciated
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mar
Very good topic....this is a problem in a lot of high impact sports and it makes me think about personal responsiblity more than anything. The ideas in this thread are all good but i have to belive that with all the money some of these big fighters make where long term health is really a concern instead of buying 14 houses and a ton of bmw's some money should be set aside for your own future....the only problem with that is what about the guys who take a beating and never really get the big payday hhhmmm sorry guys i don't think i've solved anything but this is a really good topic for me it's just that there a ton of athleats who are injured for the remainder of thier lives and broke but then again there are a ton who aren't you gotta take care of yourself no one else will.
CC for the input
Re: Serious Question for all...Concerns our sport...Everyones input appreciated
Sorry i didn't have much to offer, but i do feel for the guys going through this type of problems.
Re: Serious Question for all...Concerns our sport...Everyones input appreciated
I think you've got some good ideas there. Some of it I don't think could ever happen but as a starting proposal I think it makes sense. I don't think the mandatory jail time is realistic and the outside doctor. I like the idea of a federal law requiring certain levels insurance and having the grounds for coverage. Building careers off nobodies is not more important than keeping the 'nobodies' from permanent damage or death. Maybe that could also be a small step towards making records a little more meaningful.
Dealing with all of the individual states would be a big challenge but maybe if someone could get the ball rolling in a big boxing state like NY then other states might follow.
Re: Serious Question for all...Concerns our sport...Everyones input appreciated
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mar
Sorry i didn't have much to offer, but i do feel for the guys going through this type of problems.
No need to be sorry at all mate....any and all input be it agree or disagree is appreciated...thats why I started the thread to get some input from those who count most to everyone the fans....it is the fans that pay for the fights that line the pocket of all involved....It is their opinion that counts
