Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Completely agree Bilbo CC
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw
1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Bernard Hopkins
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Ricky Hatton
6. Israel Vasquez
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Kelly Pavlik
9. Mikkel Kessler
10. Shane Mosley
Is the way I've got it right now
What has Kessler done to be above Joe Calzaghe ???
And Winky should still be top 10.
Mosely will prove himself still p4p against Cotto but he's just outside so far.
good observation there bilbo. I was actually planning to make a comment on it. anyway, everyone has their top ten and I would respect Sugar shaw's choices though I'm wondering why he did not include Cotto and Calzhage.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw
1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Bernard Hopkins
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Ricky Hatton
6. Israel Vasquez
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Kelly Pavlik
9. Mikkel Kessler
10. Shane Mosley
Is the way I've got it right now
What has Kessler done to be above Joe Calzaghe ???
And Winky should still be top 10.
Mosely will prove himself still p4p against Cotto but he's just outside so far.
I have answered this question so many times...but anyway:
Kessler has beaten Andrade and Mundine, all three of them are better than Lacy and look at the fuss that was made after Calzaghe beat him. In my mind Kessler has beaten the better competition.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw
1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Bernard Hopkins
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Ricky Hatton
6. Israel Vasquez
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Kelly Pavlik
9. Mikkel Kessler
10. Shane Mosley
Is the way I've got it right now
What has Kessler done to be above Joe Calzaghe ???
And Winky should still be top 10.
Mosely will prove himself still p4p against Cotto but he's just outside so far.
I have answered this question so many times...but anyway:
Kessler has beaten Andrade and Mundine, all three of them are better than Lacy and look at the fuss that was made after Calzaghe beat him. In my mind Kessler has beaten the better competition.
Who has Andrade beat to be better than Lacy? He's never even been a world champ?
Neither has Mundine unless you are the one person who actually counts being WBC 'regular' champ behind Kessler as a real world title ::**
And Chris Eubank was far better than either Andrade or Mundine.
And you didn't respond regarding Winky. ;)
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Kessler: Andrade(undefeated),Beyer(unification),Mundine(who has beaten Green,Soliman,Echols etc) those are some good names but decent names like Lucas.
JC- Eubank,Reid,Lacy,Manfredo,Veit,Brewer.
I don't think its as questionable as you think Bilbo. Who has Mundine beaten? How old was Eubank and how long did he prepare for that fight? Also,if I remember correctly,Kessler has beaten 5/6 RING top 10 ranked fighter,more than JC so having Kessler ahead is feasible.
As for Winky,if you are going by overall career performance,he should be there but as of late,well P4P has been HOT and I don't see him doing as much or being as successful as of alte as the guys above him. I think there's too much activity in the list to keep him in there considering he is 1-1-1 in his last 3 fights. Otherwise people will start arguing MAB should be up there then JT fans will say he should still be there etc.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Andrade IMO is technically better than Lacy, it's not about who they fought.
Eubank was well past his prime when he fought Calzaghe. He had just lost 2 of his last 6 and the fight with Calzaghe came 7 years after his win over Nigel Benn, when he was his best.
As for Winky, i find i hard to rank a fighter who has only won one of his last three in the top 10 in the world.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Kessler: Andrade(undefeated),Beyer(unification),Mundine(who has beaten Green,Soliman,Echols etc) those are some good names but decent names like Lucas.
JC- Eubank,Reid,Lacy,Manfredo,Veit,Brewer.
I don't think its as questionable as you think Bilbo. Who has Mundine beaten? How old was Eubank and how long did he prepare for that fight? Also,if I remember correctly,Kessler has beaten 5/6 RING top 10 ranked fighter,more than JC so having Kessler ahead is feasible.
As for Winky,if you are going by overall career performance,he should be there but as of late,well P4P has been HOT and I don't see him doing as much or being as successful as of alte as the guys above him. I think there's too much activity in the list to keep him in there considering he is 1-1-1 in his last 3 fights. Otherwise people will start arguing MAB should be up there then JT fans will say he should still be there etc.
Well seeing as Hopkins is 2-2 in his last four, both Marquez and Vazquez have been knocked out in one of their last two fights I'd say a 1-1-1 record against two at the time top 5 p4prs ain't bad ;)
You can't seriously have Kessler ahead of Calzaghe. Calzaghe's undefeated reign stretches back a decade. The Ring (which you bring up so much) bestowed their championship belt on him recently as the greatest super middle ever.
Kessler will have to beat him to get ahead of him in the rankings.
Oh and Eunbank was 31 when he fought Joe, really over the hill ::**
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Kessler: Andrade(undefeated),Beyer(unification),Mundine(who has beaten Green,Soliman,Echols etc) those are some good names but decent names like Lucas.
JC- Eubank,Reid,Lacy,Manfredo,Veit,Brewer.
I don't think its as questionable as you think Bilbo. Who has Mundine beaten? How old was Eubank and how long did he prepare for that fight? Also,if I remember correctly,Kessler has beaten 5/6 RING top 10 ranked fighter,more than JC so having Kessler ahead is feasible.
As for Winky,if you are going by overall career performance,he should be there but as of late,well P4P has been HOT and I don't see him doing as much or being as successful as of alte as the guys above him. I think there's too much activity in the list to keep him in there considering he is 1-1-1 in his last 3 fights. Otherwise people will start arguing MAB should be up there then JT fans will say he should still be there etc.
So basically after JC makes those fighters mentioned look stupid (remember the hype ...) all of a sudden there "not as good as we thought" or "over-hyped". The names you mention for Kessler arent exactly gonna set the world alight. Im gonna state this right now KESSLER IS GONNA LOSE A WIDE UD AND THEN HE'LL BE ANOTHER "not as good as we thought" or "over-hyped" fighter that Joe took care of.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Kessler: Andrade(undefeated),Beyer(unification),Mundine(who has beaten Green,Soliman,Echols etc) those are some good names but decent names like Lucas.
JC- Eubank,Reid,Lacy,Manfredo,Veit,Brewer.
I don't think its as questionable as you think Bilbo. Who has Mundine beaten? How old was Eubank and how long did he prepare for that fight? Also,if I remember correctly,Kessler has beaten 5/6 RING top 10 ranked fighter,more than JC so having Kessler ahead is feasible.
As for Winky,if you are going by overall career performance,he should be there but as of late,well P4P has been HOT and I don't see him doing as much or being as successful as of alte as the guys above him. I think there's too much activity in the list to keep him in there considering he is 1-1-1 in his last 3 fights. Otherwise people will start arguing MAB should be up there then JT fans will say he should still be there etc.
Well seeing as Hopkins is 2-2 in his last four, both Marquez and Vazquez have been knocked out in one of their last two fights I'd say a 1-1-1 record against two at the time top 5 p4prs ain't bad ;)
You can't seriously have Kessler ahead of Calzaghe. Calzaghe's undefeated reign stretches back a decade. The Ring (which you bring up so much) bestowed their championship belt on him recently as the greatest super middle ever.
Kessler will have to beat him to get ahead of him in the rankings.
Oh and Eunbank was 31 when he fought Joe, really over the hill ::**
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Kessler: Andrade(undefeated),Beyer(unification),Mundine(who has beaten Green,Soliman,Echols etc) those are some good names but decent names like Lucas.
JC- Eubank,Reid,Lacy,Manfredo,Veit,Brewer.
I don't think its as questionable as you think Bilbo. Who has Mundine beaten? How old was Eubank and how long did he prepare for that fight? Also,if I remember correctly,Kessler has beaten 5/6 RING top 10 ranked fighter,more than JC so having Kessler ahead is feasible.
As for Winky,if you are going by overall career performance,he should be there but as of late,well P4P has been HOT and I don't see him doing as much or being as successful as of alte as the guys above him. I think there's too much activity in the list to keep him in there considering he is 1-1-1 in his last 3 fights. Otherwise people will start arguing MAB should be up there then JT fans will say he should still be there etc.
Well seeing as Hopkins is 2-2 in his last four,
both Marquez and Vazquez have been knocked out in one of their last two fights I'd say a 1-1-1 record against two at the time top 5 p4prs ain't bad ;)
You can't seriously have Kessler ahead of Calzaghe. Calzaghe's undefeated reign stretches back a decade.
The Ring (which you bring up so much) bestowed their championship belt on him recently as the greatest super middle ever.
Kessler will have to beat him to get ahead of him in the rankings.
Oh and Eunbank was 31 when he fought Joe, really over the hill ::**
The Ring gave Calzaghe the belt because he beat the thrid rated guy in the world at that time but we all know the best guy doesn't always hold the title.
Hopkins is 2-2 because of poor judging.
Marquez and Vasquez have been knocked out but by each other. You cant put one thre without the other.
As for Eubank, not everyone peaks at the same age e.g. Tyson peaked very early
and 1-hit wonder, you seem very confident. I think a sig bet is in order.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Kessler: Andrade(undefeated),Beyer(unification),Mundine(who has beaten Green,Soliman,Echols etc) those are some good names but decent names like Lucas.
JC- Eubank,Reid,Lacy,Manfredo,Veit,Brewer.
I don't think its as questionable as you think Bilbo. Who has Mundine beaten? How old was Eubank and how long did he prepare for that fight? Also,if I remember correctly,Kessler has beaten 5/6 RING top 10 ranked fighter,more than JC so having Kessler ahead is feasible.
As for Winky,if you are going by overall career performance,he should be there but as of late,well P4P has been HOT and I don't see him doing as much or being as successful as of alte as the guys above him. I think there's too much activity in the list to keep him in there considering he is 1-1-1 in his last 3 fights. Otherwise people will start arguing MAB should be up there then JT fans will say he should still be there etc.
Well seeing as Hopkins is 2-2 in his last four, both Marquez and Vazquez have been knocked out in one of their last two fights I'd say a 1-1-1 record against two at the time top 5 p4prs ain't bad ;)
You can't seriously have Kessler ahead of Calzaghe. Calzaghe's undefeated reign stretches back a decade. The Ring (which you bring up so much) bestowed their championship belt on him recently as the greatest super middle ever.
Kessler will have to beat him to get ahead of him in the rankings.
Oh and Eunbank was 31 when he fought Joe, really over the hill ::**
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Kessler: Andrade(undefeated),Beyer(unification),Mundine(who has beaten Green,Soliman,Echols etc) those are some good names but decent names like Lucas.
JC- Eubank,Reid,Lacy,Manfredo,Veit,Brewer.
I don't think its as questionable as you think Bilbo. Who has Mundine beaten? How old was Eubank and how long did he prepare for that fight? Also,if I remember correctly,Kessler has beaten 5/6 RING top 10 ranked fighter,more than JC so having Kessler ahead is feasible.
As for Winky,if you are going by overall career performance,he should be there but as of late,well P4P has been HOT and I don't see him doing as much or being as successful as of alte as the guys above him. I think there's too much activity in the list to keep him in there considering he is 1-1-1 in his last 3 fights. Otherwise people will start arguing MAB should be up there then JT fans will say he should still be there etc.
Well seeing as Hopkins is 2-2 in his last four,
both Marquez and Vazquez have been knocked out in one of their last two fights I'd say a 1-1-1 record against two at the time top 5 p4prs ain't bad ;)
You can't seriously have Kessler ahead of Calzaghe. Calzaghe's undefeated reign stretches back a decade.
The Ring (which you bring up so much) bestowed their championship belt on him recently as the greatest super middle ever.
Kessler will have to beat him to get ahead of him in the rankings.
Oh and Eunbank was 31 when he fought Joe, really over the hill ::**
The Ring gave Calzaghe the belt because he beat the thrid rated guy in the world at that time but we all know the best guy doesn't always hold the title.
Hopkins is 2-2 because of poor judging.
Marquez and Vasquez have been knocked out but by each other. You cant put one thre without the other.
As for Eubank, not everyone peaks at the same age e.g. Tyson peaked very early
and 1-hit wonder, you seem very confident. I think a sig bet is in order.
I'll take a sig bet with you that Calzghe beats Kessler
I think Kessler is very good but putting him ahead of Calzaghe in the p4p rankings is purely based on conjecture.
If Kessler is there than Cotto should be above him seeing as Judah is better than either Andrade or Mundine.
When it comes to the Ring rankings you can only rank according to achievements and Kessler hasn't acheived as much.
Calzaghe is universally seen as the man in the division, El Gamo would you rate Kessler above him in the P4P? ???
I'm not asking who you think will win, two completely different things. I felt sure Pavlik would spark out Taylor but no way was he above him in the rankings before he beat him.
Same with Kessler, he's a tough challenge and could well beat Joe but you don't get to be the man until you have beaten the man.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
The sig bet is on
I'll PM you nearer the time
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw
1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Bernard Hopkins
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Ricky Hatton
6. Israel Vasquez
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Kelly Pavlik
9. Mikkel Kessler
10. Shane Mosley
Is the way I've got it right now
Ricky Hatton's # 5, but Miguel Cotto is nowhere to be seen?
Great list!!
:Sarcasm:
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Hatton beat Tszyu and Csatillo to get that spot. I'd have Cotto at 11
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw
Hatton beat Tszyu and Csatillo to get that spot. I'd have Cotto at 11
At least we agree on Hatton and Cotto ;)
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
I enjoyed that first debate so much I am tempted to change my opinions jsut to start another ;D
