Some random information I picked up watching 1900's fights.

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

I was watching the French fighter,Georges Carpentier and the commentator mentioned he won EVERY FRENCH TITLE FROM BANTAMWEIGHT to HW?! What hell?!!?

I also just saw Ted Lewis,a 5foot5 WW,fighting a 200 pound HW,a difference of 56 pounds or so and KO him?!!?!?

And I just saw a really cool fight of Stanley Ketchel,the best MW fight Jack Johnson,the best HW?! Amazing ending,Ketchel dropped Johnson!!!? Then Johnson got right back up and KTFO Ketchel! I thought Ketchel was unconscious!

I know it's random information but they were awesome fights!

And I LOOOOVED Benny Leonard v Lew Tindler(I'm not sure if I spelt that right). Classic boxer v puncher,2 greats at lightweight if I'm correct. Anyway,1thing that perplexed me was that the commentator mentioned,that all Benny had to do was not get knocked out and he would keep his title,via no decision? This confused me! Why would it be a no decision and not go to the scorecards?

CC for any responses,I must have made a few mistakes in there so forgive me!

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Excellent stuff Gamo,Major leauge CCCCCC to you for delving into what is sometimes dismissed as ancient and/or Non-applicable by some of Boxing fans.
every time we get a Top ten Greatest list or top bouts all time,I dont think about Last week Or even last year.The entirity of this sport spans centurys and boxing in the 1900's is very obtainable and is there to be studied.I am not entirely sure why and or how the No-Decision rules apply but they were a dime a dozen back then.you can read records of the fighters then and they would fight every week or month,sometimes the same fighter over and over.
Benny leonard,The original "professor" was a Phsycological master boxer going in against the relentless and awkward southpaw Lew Tendler and buy all accounts it was an awesome specticle 1 of 2.I read that Tendler was really working him over early and knocked one of Leonards teeth out in round 5.Leonard Played possume in the 8th after being hurt on the ropes(he said his legs were Paralyzed) and feigned a low blow causing a break in action Lol,Some thing never change huh.Sounds like in the 9th leonard rebounded and even shook Tendler a couple times but Benny was cut and swollen and lucky to retain his title.sounds like agreat fight.Why the f!!! am I Posting It,You Have the fight to watch!!!!??
The No-decision part is unknown to me.I know a large number of bouts back then did not use Judges,they had Newspaper writers render decisions???Leonard made a sad comback (sound familiar :()In 1932 going 19-1 after the stock market crash.The sad irony is Leonard Did Die in the ring,in 1947 he collapsed and died of a stroke while working as a referee in a match between Julio Jiminez vs.Eddie Sosa in N.Y. Thank for the history lesson El Gamo,Refreshing CC.

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Originally Posted by Jeff Spicoli Surfs In 'Nawlins

Quote:

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

I was watching the French fighter,Georges Carpentier and the commentator mentioned he won EVERY FRENCH TITLE FROM BANTAMWEIGHT to HW?! What hell?!!?

I also just saw Ted Lewis,a 5foot5 WW,fighting a 200 pound HW,a difference of 56 pounds or so and KO him?!!?!?

And I just saw a really cool fight of Stanley Ketchel,the best MW fight Jack Johnson,the best HW?! Amazing ending,Ketchel dropped Johnson!!!? Then Johnson got right back up and KTFO Ketchel! I thought Ketchel was unconscious!

I know it's random information but they were awesome fights!

And I LOOOOVED Benny Leonard v Lew Tindler(I'm not sure if I spelt that right). Classic boxer v puncher,2 greats at lightweight if I'm correct. Anyway,1thing that perplexed me was that the commentator mentioned,that all Benny had to do was not get knocked out and he would keep his title,via no decision? This confused me! Why would it be a no decision and not go to the scorecards?

CC for any responses,I must have made a few mistakes in there so forgive me!

---

Excellent stuff Gamo,Major leauge CCCCCC to you for delving into what is sometimes dismissed as ancient and/or Non-applicable by some of Boxing fans.
every time we get a Top ten Greatest list or top bouts all time,I dont think about Last week Or even last year.The entirity of this sport spans centurys and boxing in the 1900's is very obtainable and is there to be studied.I am not entirely sure why and or how the No-Decision rules apply but they were a dime a dozen back then.you can read records of the fighters then and they would fight every week or month,sometimes the same fighter over and over.
Benny leonard,The original "professor" was a Phsycological master boxer going in against the relentless and awkward southpaw Lew Tendler and buy all accounts it was an awesome specticle 1 of 2.I read that Tendler was really working him over early and knocked one of Leonards teeth out in round 5.Leonard Played possume in the 8th after being hurt on the ropes(he said his legs were Paralyzed) and feigned a low blow causing a break in action Lol,Some thing never change huh.Sounds like in the 9th leonard rebounded and even shook Tendler a couple times but Benny was cut and swollen and lucky to retain his title.sounds like agreat fight.Why the f!!! am I Posting It,You Have the fight to watch!!!!??
The No-decision part is unknown to me.I know a large number of bouts back then did not use Judges,they had Newspaper writers render decisions???Leonard made a sad comback (sound familiar :()In 1932 going 19-1 after the stock market crash.The sad irony is Leonard Did Die in the ring,in 1947 he collapsed and died of a stroke while working as a referee in a match between Julio Jiminez vs.Eddie Sosa in N.Y. Thank for the history lesson El Gamo,Refreshing CC.

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It looks like the "No Decision Rule" was dependant on the state the fight was taking place. In the particular case of Leonard vs. Tendler, the State of New Jersey (site of the July 27, 1922, match) had a “no-decision law” that meant a champion could only lose his title by a knockout.

Back in history the fights had to finish by KO. The fighters were just fighting until the other could not continue. There was no referee, no rounds, and no time limit. Eventually, new rules were created such as the "London Prize Ring Rules" and the "Queensberry rules". Those of you interested in learning more about boxing history will find this information very interesting. This was a subject that made me learn a little more about the "Sweet Science". CC for you Gamo!!!

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

I was watching the French fighter,Georges Carpentier and the commentator mentioned he won EVERY FRENCH TITLE FROM BANTAMWEIGHT to HW?! What hell?!!?

I also just saw Ted Lewis,a 5foot5 WW,fighting a 200 pound HW,a difference of 56 pounds or so and KO him?!!?!?

And I just saw a really cool fight of Stanley Ketchel,the best MW fight Jack Johnson,the best HW?! Amazing ending,Ketchel dropped Johnson!!!? Then Johnson got right back up and KTFO Ketchel! I thought Ketchel was unconscious!

I know it's random information but they were awesome fights!

And I LOOOOVED Benny Leonard v Lew Tindler(I'm not sure if I spelt that right). Classic boxer v puncher,2 greats at lightweight if I'm correct. Anyway,1thing that perplexed me was that the commentator mentioned,that all Benny had to do was not get knocked out and he would keep his title,via no decision? This confused me! Why would it be a no decision and not go to the scorecards?

CC for any responses,I must have made a few mistakes in there so forgive me!

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Good read Gamo and I always enjoy watching boxing period as long as the punches are flying and it's a fight not ballroom dancing I'm all for it....

Was reading thru the board and came across this not sure if you've seen it yet. ;D

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxing_fo...c,53949.0.html

Yeah, I forgot to mention the CC Gamo, this has turned into one of the more interesting threads I've seen in a while.... how times have changed... first they threw them in with lions and had them fight to the death, then we got a little more classy and just said, eh knock the bloke out and you've done enough... and now we just watch most of them dance around and hold for 36 minutes and wait for the violence to start after the scorecards are read ;D

Wo,cc'S back to everyone. I'm surprised by the number of responses,thought I'd be alone on this one. We REALLY DO have the most knowledgeable boxing fans bar none. I don't know as much as you guys about the older fighters but I consider myself a student of the sport and love to learn so over the last couple of years,I've tracked down as many older fights as possible,from the first ever recorded boxing footage through the greats,the Jimmy Wilde's,Pancho Villa's etc Benny Leonards,Jack Johnsons,Jack Dempseys etc

Anyway,Sweetpea,thanks for the vid,I'll check it out when I get some time. Thankyou all guys for all the feedback,I'm going to watch some other older fights later in the week,I'll make another thread about it or just bump this one,so keep an eye out.

1thing though,imagine boxing still having the rule that the challenger would only win the title by koing the champion! It sure would make for more exciting fights lol. And it would root out alot of the dancing. To be honest,I thought those that said there were too many boxers who danced were talking cobblers but they have a point in light of these older fights/fighters!!! Man how times have changed!! I also am shocked at how many fights were rigged,Ketchel wearing higher heeled shoes made me LOL!!!

Yeah,I'm pretty sure I have like a 2 minute clip of one of the earlier boxing fights,I'm sure it went more than 50 plus rounds! I remember talking to it with Amat(a VERY KNOWEDGEABLE poster,hope he makes an appearance here)

Oh and another thing that REALLY shocked but I had completley forgotten about is that when a fighter goes down,the opponenet can stand right by and jump on him again?!!? What the heck?! And the crowds were MUCH MUCH bigger back then! I also found it astounding in the Georges Carpentier v Battling Siki bout,when Carpentier was knocked dow,Siki helped him up then a minute later,Georges headbutted him! This pissed of Siki so he attacked George viciousy,knocking him out! Wow!

Keep the posts coming guys and thankyou for the positive feedback!


"Was reading thru the board and came across this not sure if you've seen it yet. Grin

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxing_fo...,53949.0.html" - CutMeMick

::** ;D :D ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

I was watching the French fighter,Georges Carpentier and the commentator mentioned he won EVERY FRENCH TITLE FROM BANTAMWEIGHT to HW?! What hell?!!?

I also just saw Ted Lewis,a 5foot5 WW,fighting a 200 pound HW,a difference of 56 pounds or so and KO him?!!?!?

And I just saw a really cool fight of Stanley Ketchel,the best MW fight Jack Johnson,the best HW?! Amazing ending,Ketchel dropped Johnson!!!? Then Johnson got right back up and KTFO Ketchel! I thought Ketchel was unconscious!

I know it's random information but they were awesome fights!

And I LOOOOVED Benny Leonard v Lew Tindler(I'm not sure if I spelt that right). Classic boxer v puncher,2 greats at lightweight if I'm correct. Anyway,1thing that perplexed me was that the commentator mentioned,that all Benny had to do was not get knocked out and he would keep his title,via no decision? This confused me! Why would it be a no decision and not go to the scorecards?

CC for any responses,I must have made a few mistakes in there so forgive me!

---

After Ketchel goes down you can see Johnson brush Ketchels teeth out of his glove. :-\

Quote:

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Wo,cc'S back to everyone. I'm surprised by the number of responses,thought I'd be alone on this one. We REALLY DO have the most knowledgeable boxing fans bar none. I don't know as much as you guys about the older fighters but I consider myself a student of the sport and love to learn so over the last couple of years,I've tracked down as many older fights as possible,from the first ever recorded boxing footage through the greats,the Jimmy Wilde's,Pancho Villa's etc Benny Leonards,Jack Johnsons,Jack Dempseys etc

Anyway,Sweetpea,thanks for the vid,I'll check it out when I get some time. Thankyou all guys for all the feedback,I'm going to watch some other older fights later in the week,I'll make another thread about it or just bump this one,so keep an eye out.

1thing though,imagine boxing still having the rule that the challenger would only win the title by koing the champion! It sure would make for more exciting fights lol. And it would root out alot of the dancing. To be honest,I thought those that said there were too many boxers who danced were talking cobblers but they have a point in light of these older fights/fighters!!! Man how times have changed!! I also am shocked at how many fights were rigged,Ketchel wearing higher heeled shoes made me LOL!!!

Yeah,I'm pretty sure I have like a 2 minute clip of one of the earlier boxing fights,I'm sure it went more than 50 plus rounds! I remember talking to it with Amat(a VERY KNOWEDGEABLE poster,hope he makes an appearance here)

Oh and another thing that REALLY shocked but I had completley forgotten about is that when a fighter goes down,the opponenet can stand right by and jump on him again?!!? What the heck?! And the crowds were MUCH MUCH bigger back then! I also found it astounding in the Georges Carpentier v Battling Siki bout,when Carpentier was knocked dow,Siki helped him up then a minute later,Georges headbutted him! This pissed of Siki so he attacked George viciousy,knocking him out! Wow!

Keep the posts coming guys and thankyou for the positive feedback!


"Was reading thru the board and came across this not sure if you've seen it yet. Grin

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxing_fo...,53949.0.html" - CutMeMick

::** ;D :D ;)

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Have you seen the Jack Johnson vs Fireman Jim Flynn yet? It has the most insane use of the head ever! :o Honestly Holyfield is a saint next to Jim Flyn. What is so funny is that Flyn is tiny compared to Johnson so his headbutts are basicaly leaping headbutt and chin butts :D

Despite these most outrageous fouls Johnson just smiles throughout and then starts to hold Flyns head with one hand whilst pounding him with the other, just like a classic man fighting dwarf comedy sketch!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Wo,cc'S back to everyone. I'm surprised by the number of responses,thought I'd be alone on this one. We REALLY DO have the most knowledgeable boxing fans bar none. I don't know as much as you guys about the older fighters but I consider myself a student of the sport and love to learn so over the last couple of years,I've tracked down as many older fights as possible,from the first ever recorded boxing footage through the greats,the Jimmy Wilde's,Pancho Villa's etc Benny Leonards,Jack Johnsons,Jack Dempseys etc

Anyway,Sweetpea,thanks for the vid,I'll check it out when I get some time. Thankyou all guys for all the feedback,I'm going to watch some other older fights later in the week,I'll make another thread about it or just bump this one,so keep an eye out.

1thing though,imagine boxing still having the rule that the challenger would only win the title by koing the champion! It sure would make for more exciting fights lol. And it would root out alot of the dancing. To be honest,I thought those that said there were too many boxers who danced were talking cobblers but they have a point in light of these older fights/fighters!!! Man how times have changed!! I also am shocked at how many fights were rigged,Ketchel wearing higher heeled shoes made me LOL!!!

Yeah,I'm pretty sure I have like a 2 minute clip of one of the earlier boxing fights,I'm sure it went more than 50 plus rounds! I remember talking to it with Amat(a VERY KNOWEDGEABLE poster,hope he makes an appearance here)

Oh and another thing that REALLY shocked but I had completley forgotten about is that when a fighter goes down,the opponenet can stand right by and jump on him again?!!? What the heck?! And the crowds were MUCH MUCH bigger back then! I also found it astounding in the Georges Carpentier v Battling Siki bout,when Carpentier was knocked dow,Siki helped him up then a minute later,Georges headbutted him! This pissed of Siki so he attacked George viciousy,knocking him out! Wow!

Keep the posts coming guys and thankyou for the positive feedback!


"Was reading thru the board and came across this not sure if you've seen it yet. Grin

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxing_fo...,53949.0.html" - CutMeMick

::** ;D :D ;)

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Looking on how much you appreciate these fights, I recommend that you watch Jack Dempsey vs. Jess Willard, if you have not seen it. There are various programs that a least have some parts of the fight. You will see how Dempsey jumped over that giant and destroyed him. I don't remember how many bones fractures Willard had after the fight.

Thanks bro,I've seen the large majority of Dempseys fightes. I fearsome foe,with absolutely murderous power. When I saw the size difference between him and Wllard,I foolishly and automatically considered it a mis match!? Dempsey murdered him! How many knockdowns where there,I lost count! I also enjoyed Dempsey v Luis Firpo(spelling?). I remember numerous knockdowns in that fight too,awesome to watch.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Wo,cc'S back to everyone. I'm surprised by the number of responses,thought I'd be alone on this one. We REALLY DO have the most knowledgeable boxing fans bar none. I don't know as much as you guys about the older fighters but I consider myself a student of the sport and love to learn so over the last couple of years,I've tracked down as many older fights as possible,from the first ever recorded boxing footage through the greats,the Jimmy Wilde's,Pancho Villa's etc Benny Leonards,Jack Johnsons,Jack Dempseys etc

Anyway,Sweetpea,thanks for the vid,I'll check it out when I get some time. Thankyou all guys for all the feedback,I'm going to watch some other older fights later in the week,I'll make another thread about it or just bump this one,so keep an eye out.

1thing though,imagine boxing still having the rule that the challenger would only win the title by koing the champion! It sure would make for more exciting fights lol. And it would root out alot of the dancing. To be honest,I thought those that said there were too many boxers who danced were talking cobblers but they have a point in light of these older fights/fighters!!! Man how times have changed!! I also am shocked at how many fights were rigged,Ketchel wearing higher heeled shoes made me LOL!!!

Yeah,I'm pretty sure I have like a 2 minute clip of one of the earlier boxing fights,I'm sure it went more than 50 plus rounds! I remember talking to it with Amat(a VERY KNOWEDGEABLE poster,hope he makes an appearance here)

Oh and another thing that REALLY shocked but I had completley forgotten about is that when a fighter goes down,the opponenet can stand right by and jump on him again?!!? What the heck?! And the crowds were MUCH MUCH bigger back then! I also found it astounding in the Georges Carpentier v Battling Siki bout,when Carpentier was knocked dow,Siki helped him up then a minute later,Georges headbutted him! This pissed of Siki so he attacked George viciousy,knocking him out! Wow!

Keep the posts coming guys and thankyou for the positive feedback!


"Was reading thru the board and came across this not sure if you've seen it yet. Grin

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxing_fo...,53949.0.html" - CutMeMick

::** ;D :D ;)

---

Have you seen the Jack Johnson vs Fireman Jim Flynn yet? It has the most insane use of the head ever! :o Honestly Holyfield is a saint next to Jim Flyn. What is so funny is that Flyn is tiny compared to Johnson so his headbutts are basicaly leaping headbutt and chin butts :D

Despite these most outrageous fouls Johnson just smiles throughout and then starts to hold Flyns head with one hand whilst pounding him with the other, just like a classic man fighting dwarf comedy sketch!

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LMAO,I have not seen that fight but I am going to make sure I find it for sure.