Re: Where is Joe C p4p now?
Joe completely amazed me last night! I thought he was a bit overrated but now i'm completely biting my tongue.
I have it at
1) Floyd
2) Manny
3) Joe
4) Juan Manuel
Re: Where is Joe C p4p now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
I have to agree with the rest of the general population Joe sits at about 5th or so, Floyd still holds the number one spot followed by Pacquiao, JMM, Hopkins then either Vazquez or Hatton, in any order just as long as Floyd is #1, Not that I am a Floyd fan but it is hard to argue that point.
Calzaghe has not had the level of comp these other guys have had...EG- Pacquiao- Barrera, Morales...
He fits in comfortable it the middle
I agree that around 5th is ok for Calzaghe but JM Marquez's top 3 spot baffles me somewhat. He holds a win over a faded old Barrera and a draw against Manny Pacquaio, and was beaten only a few fights ok against Chris John.
By contrast Calzaghe has never lost and has beaten the two best men in his division in THEIR primes.
Marquez's position is overratted imo.
Re: Where is Joe C p4p now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
I have to agree with the rest of the general population Joe sits at about 5th or so, Floyd still holds the number one spot followed by Pacquiao, JMM, Hopkins then either Vazquez or Hatton, in any order just as long as Floyd is #1, Not that I am a Floyd fan but it is hard to argue that point.
Calzaghe has not had the level of comp these other guys have had...EG- Pacquiao- Barrera, Morales...
He fits in comfortable it the middle
I agree that around 5th is ok for Calzaghe but JM Marquez's top 3 spot baffles me somewhat. He holds a win over a faded old Barrera and a draw against Manny Pacquaio, and was beaten only a few fights ok against Chris John.
By contrast Calzaghe has never lost and has beaten the two best men in his division in THEIR primes.
Marquez's position is overratted imo.
know what you mean, hopkins is to high to imo. as good as wright is, hopkins struggled and JUST beat a guy whos besta t light middle, hardly see how that puts u top 5 in the world.
Re: Where is Joe C p4p now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
I have to agree with the rest of the general population Joe sits at about 5th or so, Floyd still holds the number one spot followed by Pacquiao, JMM, Hopkins then either Vazquez or Hatton, in any order just as long as Floyd is #1, Not that I am a Floyd fan but it is hard to argue that point.
Calzaghe has not had the level of comp these other guys have had...EG- Pacquiao- Barrera, Morales...
He fits in comfortable it the middle
I agree that around 5th is ok for Calzaghe but JM Marquez's top 3 spot baffles me somewhat. He holds a win over a faded old Barrera and a draw against Manny Pacquaio, and was beaten only a few fights ok against Chris John.
By contrast Calzaghe has never lost and has beaten the two best men in his division in THEIR primes.
Marquez's position is overratted imo.
Well Marquez.like JC,beat alot of decent fighters in his division:Medina etc etc he then drew with Manny who is P4P top 2,in a fight most think he won. Also,MAB looked really good against Juarez the second time and was also P4P at the time. 3 losses JMM has had:1 on his debut,1 robbery in Indonesia and a close fight with Norwood which could have gone either way. Add all that up)he has win over 1 p4p fighter, and draw which should have been win.plus his losses are questionable) and he's P4P easily. In fact,I only see you as saying otherwise,unless I'm mistaken.
Re: Where is Joe C p4p now?
Calzaghe is King ! get over it.
Trawling through the history and what if books alters nothing.
Calzaghe is a winner !!
Re: Where is Joe C p4p now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
I have to agree with the rest of the general population Joe sits at about 5th or so, Floyd still holds the number one spot followed by Pacquiao, JMM, Hopkins then either Vazquez or Hatton, in any order just as long as Floyd is #1, Not that I am a Floyd fan but it is hard to argue that point.
Calzaghe has not had the level of comp these other guys have had...EG- Pacquiao- Barrera, Morales...
He fits in comfortable it the middle
I agree that around 5th is ok for Calzaghe but JM Marquez's top 3 spot baffles me somewhat. He holds a win over a faded old Barrera and a draw against Manny Pacquaio, and was beaten only a few fights ok against Chris John.
By contrast Calzaghe has never lost and has beaten the two best men in his division in THEIR primes.
Marquez's position is overratted imo.
I just named what the general list consist of....The order means nothing to me...Like I said as long as Floyd stays at #1 however you want to rate the rest is up to you...I do not get into the whole P4P debate it is one that is never settled and no one is going to change anyone elses mind on it....An arguement not worth the effort to be honest...
[quote=El Gamo ]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
I have to agree with the rest of the general population Joe sits at about 5th or so, Floyd still holds the number one spot followed by Pacquiao, JMM, Hopkins then either Vazquez or Hatton, in any order just as long as Floyd is #1, Not that I am a Floyd fan but it is hard to argue that point.
Calzaghe has not had the level of comp these other guys have had...EG- Pacquiao- Barrera, Morales...
He fits in comfortable it the middle
I agree that around 5th is ok for Calzaghe but JM Marquez's top 3 spot baffles me somewhat. He holds a win over a faded old Barrera and a draw against Manny Pacquaio, and was beaten only a few fights ok against Chris John.
By contrast Calzaghe has never lost and has beaten the two best men in his division in THEIR primes.
Marquez's position is overratted imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
I have to agree with the rest of the general population Joe sits at about 5th or so, Floyd still holds the number one spot followed by Pacquiao, JMM, Hopkins then either Vazquez or Hatton, in any order just as long as Floyd is #1, Not that I am a Floyd fan but it is hard to argue that point.
Calzaghe has not had the level of comp these other guys have had...EG- Pacquiao- Barrera, Morales...
He fits in comfortable it the middle
I agree that around 5th is ok for Calzaghe but JM Marquez's top 3 spot baffles me somewhat. He holds a win over a faded old Barrera and a draw against Manny Pacquaio, and was beaten only a few fights ok against Chris John.
By contrast Calzaghe has never lost and has beaten the two best men in his division in THEIR primes.
Marquez's position is overratted imo.
know what you mean, hopkins is to high to imo. as good as wright is, hopkins struggled and JUST beat a guy whos besta t light middle, hardly see how that puts u top 5 in the world.
Truth is about Hopkins is he lost twice in 11 years...Twice!!!! and during that time holds the record for MW defenses, Jumped to LHW beat the top guy there with hardly breaking a sweat and became the ring champion....His losses to JT were not sound defeats either...also you have to look at the guys age.....Hard to go against BH as a top 3 guy in truth...Plus his resume is sound....Lets not turn this into a well Joe did this and that thing or a P4P debate like I said we all know how those go and it is a waste of time.....Everyones list differs...I just pretty much kept the list that most have you can pick the order....
Funny that not many people have brought up too many doubts about Vasquez though :-\....But like I said this is not a debate I am getting into...CC's to both in 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by bustedknuckles
Calzaghe is King ! get over it.
Trawling through the history and what if books alters nothing.
Calzaghe is a winner !!
I can see there is going to be some quality post from you coming along in the future ::**
Re: Where is Joe C p4p now?
Quote Daxx: "I can see there is going to be some quality post from you coming along in the future"
LMAO :D
Re: Where is Joe C p4p now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
I have to agree with the rest of the general population Joe sits at about 5th or so, Floyd still holds the number one spot followed by Pacquiao, JMM, Hopkins then either Vazquez or Hatton, in any order just as long as Floyd is #1, Not that I am a Floyd fan but it is hard to argue that point.
Calzaghe has not had the level of comp these other guys have had...EG- Pacquiao- Barrera, Morales...
He fits in comfortable it the middle
I agree that around 5th is ok for Calzaghe but JM Marquez's top 3 spot baffles me somewhat. He holds a win over a faded old Barrera and a draw against Manny Pacquaio, and was beaten only a few fights ok against Chris John.
By contrast Calzaghe has never lost and has beaten the two best men in his division in THEIR primes.
Marquez's position is overratted imo.
Well Marquez.like JC,beat alot of decent fighters in his division:Medina etc etc he then drew with Manny who is P4P top 2,in a fight most think he won. Also,MAB looked really good against Juarez the second time and was also P4P at the time. 3 losses JMM has had:1 on his debut,1 robbery in Indonesia and a close fight with Norwood which could have gone either way. Add all that up)he has win over 1 p4p fighter, and draw which should have been win.plus his losses are questionable) and he's P4P easily. In fact,I only see you as saying otherwise,unless I'm mistaken.
Hey Gamo, I absolutely agree Marquez is p4p and probably top 5 or 6 it's just that Calzaghe no matter who he beats and how he fights often seems to get overlooked.
If you compare Calzaghe's resume to Marquez Calzaghe's is better, FACT. It's not even up for discussion, Marquez has losses and including a recent one.
Marquez's defining fight came against a Barrerra who although still a great fighter was not at his peak and has been showed subsequently against Manny to have faded.
In fact when you consider all the guys in the current p4p Calzaghe is pretty much the only fighter who has cleaned out his division and beaten the best opposition when they were in their absolute primes.
Re: Where is Joe C p4p now?
floyd's still a clear number 1 IMO, but Joe I would think is somewhere in the top five.
Re: Where is Joe C p4p now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
I have to agree with the rest of the general population Joe sits at about 5th or so, Floyd still holds the number one spot followed by Pacquiao, JMM, Hopkins then either Vazquez or Hatton, in any order just as long as Floyd is #1, Not that I am a Floyd fan but it is hard to argue that point.
Calzaghe has not had the level of comp these other guys have had...EG- Pacquiao- Barrera, Morales...
He fits in comfortable it the middle
I agree that around 5th is ok for Calzaghe but JM Marquez's top 3 spot baffles me somewhat. He holds a win over a faded old Barrera and a draw against Manny Pacquaio, and was beaten only a few fights ok against Chris John.
By contrast Calzaghe has never lost and has beaten the two best men in his division in THEIR primes.
Marquez's position is overratted imo.
Well Marquez.like JC,beat alot of decent fighters in his division:Medina etc etc he then drew with Manny who is P4P top 2,in a fight most think he won. Also,MAB looked really good against Juarez the second time and was also P4P at the time. 3 losses JMM has had:1 on his debut,1 robbery in Indonesia and a close fight with Norwood which could have gone either way. Add all that up)he has win over 1 p4p fighter, and draw which should have been win.plus his losses are questionable) and he's P4P easily. In fact,I only see you as saying otherwise,unless I'm mistaken.
Hey Gamo, I absolutely agree Marquez is p4p and probably top 5 or 6 it's just that Calzaghe no matter who he beats and how he fights often seems to get overlooked.
If you compare Calzaghe's resume to Marquez Calzaghe's is better, FACT. It's not even up for discussion, Marquez has losses and including a recent one.
Marquez's defining fight came against a Barrerra who although still a great fighter was not at his peak and has been showed subsequently against Manny to have faded.
In fact when you consider all the guys in the current p4p Calzaghe is pretty much the only fighter who has cleaned out his division and beaten the best opposition when they were in their absolute primes.
So now you are saying Calzaghe is P4P#1 one in your opp?.....
Cleaning out a division holds more weight then winning titles and beating top guys in multi divisions?
Explain yourself Hairy little man!!!
And lets not start a Calzaghe thread just elaborate on what you are saying on how you rate accomplishments
Re: Where is Joe C p4p now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
I have to agree with the rest of the general population Joe sits at about 5th or so, Floyd still holds the number one spot followed by Pacquiao, JMM, Hopkins then either Vazquez or Hatton, in any order just as long as Floyd is #1, Not that I am a Floyd fan but it is hard to argue that point.
Calzaghe has not had the level of comp these other guys have had...EG- Pacquiao- Barrera, Morales...
He fits in comfortable it the middle
I agree that around 5th is ok for Calzaghe but JM Marquez's top 3 spot baffles me somewhat. He holds a win over a faded old Barrera and a draw against Manny Pacquaio, and was beaten only a few fights ok against Chris John.
By contrast Calzaghe has never lost and has beaten the two best men in his division in THEIR primes.
Marquez's position is overratted imo.
Well Marquez.like JC,beat alot of decent fighters in his division:Medina etc etc he then drew with Manny who is P4P top 2,in a fight most think he won. Also,MAB looked really good against Juarez the second time and was also P4P at the time. 3 losses JMM has had:1 on his debut,1 robbery in Indonesia and a close fight with Norwood which could have gone either way. Add all that up)he has win over 1 p4p fighter, and draw which should have been win.plus his losses are questionable) and he's P4P easily. In fact,I only see you as saying otherwise,unless I'm mistaken.
Hey Gamo, I absolutely agree Marquez is p4p and probably top 5 or 6 it's just that Calzaghe no matter who he beats and how he fights often seems to get overlooked.
If you compare Calzaghe's resume to Marquez Calzaghe's is better, FACT. It's not even up for discussion, Marquez has losses and including a recent one.
Marquez's defining fight came against a Barrerra who although still a great fighter was not at his peak and has been showed subsequently against Manny to have faded.
In fact when you consider all the guys in the current p4p Calzaghe is pretty much the only fighter who has cleaned out his division and beaten the best opposition when they were in their absolute primes.
I was not comparing resumes,merely using an analogy and I explained Marquez' wins and losses in my previous post.. Fighters can get old in 1 fight,the MAB that fought v Marquez was far better/more offensive minded than the MAB v Manny.
Re: Where is Joe C p4p now?
Joe has done so much more than JMM...
Thats even ignoring the fact that JMM lost to Barrera imo
Re: Where is Joe C p4p now?
Know what u mean daxx, but to me the P4P list is what happens now, not yester-year...
i don't like um to much, most place the guys they support in there, others seemed clueless to what they are for, i like what roy said about there being a p4p king and everyone else, pretty much what u said about floyd.
Re: Where is Joe C p4p now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
I have to agree with the rest of the general population Joe sits at about 5th or so, Floyd still holds the number one spot followed by Pacquiao, JMM, Hopkins then either Vazquez or Hatton, in any order just as long as Floyd is #1, Not that I am a Floyd fan but it is hard to argue that point.
Calzaghe has not had the level of comp these other guys have had...EG- Pacquiao- Barrera, Morales...
He fits in comfortable it the middle
I agree that around 5th is ok for Calzaghe but JM Marquez's top 3 spot baffles me somewhat. He holds a win over a faded old Barrera and a draw against Manny Pacquaio, and was beaten only a few fights ok against Chris John.
By contrast Calzaghe has never lost and has beaten the two best men in his division in THEIR primes.
Marquez's position is overratted imo.
Well Marquez.like JC,beat alot of decent fighters in his division:Medina etc etc he then drew with Manny who is P4P top 2,in a fight most think he won. Also,MAB looked really good against Juarez the second time and was also P4P at the time. 3 losses JMM has had:1 on his debut,1 robbery in Indonesia and a close fight with Norwood which could have gone either way. Add all that up)he has win over 1 p4p fighter, and draw which should have been win.plus his losses are questionable) and he's P4P easily. In fact,I only see you as saying otherwise,unless I'm mistaken.
Hey Gamo, I absolutely agree Marquez is p4p and probably top 5 or 6 it's just that Calzaghe no matter who he beats and how he fights often seems to get overlooked.
If you compare Calzaghe's resume to Marquez Calzaghe's is better, FACT. It's not even up for discussion, Marquez has losses and including a recent one.
Marquez's defining fight came against a Barrerra who although still a great fighter was not at his peak and has been showed subsequently against Manny to have faded.
In fact when you consider all the guys in the current p4p Calzaghe is pretty much the only fighter who has cleaned out his division and beaten the best opposition when they were in their absolute primes.
So now you are saying Calzaghe is P4P#1 one in your opp?.....
Cleaning out a division holds more weight then winning titles and beating top guys in multi divisions?
Explain yourself Hairy little man!!!
And lets not start a Calzaghe thread just elaborate on what you are saying on how you rate accomplishments
Ok you lost me, when did I say Calzaghe was p4p number 1? ???
He's clearly not number one both Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquaio have better resumes.
But my point is that he's always been rated below guys like JM Marquez, R Marquez and Isreal Vazquez but with his win over Kessler he is no and ifs and buts above all of those guys.
It sounds weird saying Joe should be at 3 as he's traditionally always been universally rated between 8 and 10 but his achievements are phenomenal.
He is now where B Hop was before the first Taylor fight and Hopkins was rated number 1 in the world at that time.
Floyd is number 1, no question he's an all time great and imo the best fighter of the last 20 years along with Roy Jones.
Manny Pacquauio is definitely number 2, he's a phenomenal career.
But there is nobody else in the world (other than the two above) who deserves to rated higher than Joe now imo. Without a doubt he's earned his spot. He has to be number 3 now all of the other guys have recent losses. He's a legend.
Re: Where is Joe C p4p now?
Well alrighty then Bilbo....Now that I understand how you came up with your answer....Not often that happens...
