Re: Manfredo Lacy set... Hatton Mayweather undercard.
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Originally Posted by wacko3205
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Originally Posted by eagle
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Originally Posted by wacko3205
The Roy vs Joe @ 168lbs arguement kills me.
Roy fought Toney, Antoine Byrd, Pazienza, Thorton, Sosa, Lucas, & Brannon. Everyone ups Jones so highly off of those opponents at 168lbs & that list really aint S***. I'm sorry...but it's not. The only worthy name there is Toney. Paz was waaaaaaaay past it. Brannon was much to talk about nor was Byrd or Thorton. Lucas was so so.
Those are a bulk of names, outside of Toney, that hold no merit...but everyone lambasts Calzaghe for dominating his division at a weak time...but it's not like Jones fought the strongest opposition at 168lbs.
Roy was a marvel at 175lbs & that is where he fought his best opposition.
Roy was a marvel @168 too. Instead of hanging around at 168 where the opposition was weak he moved up. No doubt RJJ could have had 21 defenses @ 168 if he'd tried. Again i agree Joe has the better record @ 168 but if the RJJ that fought at 168 had fought Joe at any time in his career Roy would have won. I'm not saying Kessler was overrated or taking away from Joe's achievments they are great, he is a great great fighter, but i do not believe he is better than RJJ was at 168.
The proof is in the pudding.
If Joe moves up & fights 6 fighters at 175lbs & then retires...I wouldn't say that Calzaghe was better @ 175lbs than Roy was.
Joe did more & fought a better list of fighters @ 168lbs...you can't spin that too many different ways. Again...Roy WAS a great fighter...but he was great @ 175lbs where he established his dominance.
Also...nothing is certain regarding the RJJ at 168 walking through Joe...but it is fun to speculate. ;)
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
Re: Manfredo Lacy set... Hatton Mayweather undercard.
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Originally Posted by eagle
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Originally Posted by wacko3205
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Originally Posted by eagle
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Originally Posted by wacko3205
The Roy vs Joe @ 168lbs arguement kills me.
Roy fought Toney, Antoine Byrd, Pazienza, Thorton, Sosa, Lucas, & Brannon. Everyone ups Jones so highly off of those opponents at 168lbs & that list really aint S***. I'm sorry...but it's not. The only worthy name there is Toney. Paz was waaaaaaaay past it. Brannon was much to talk about nor was Byrd or Thorton. Lucas was so so.
Those are a bulk of names, outside of Toney, that hold no merit...but everyone lambasts Calzaghe for dominating his division at a weak time...but it's not like Jones fought the strongest opposition at 168lbs.
Roy was a marvel at 175lbs & that is where he fought his best opposition.
Roy was a marvel @168 too. Instead of hanging around at 168 where the opposition was weak he moved up. No doubt RJJ could have had 21 defenses @ 168 if he'd tried. Again i agree Joe has the better record @ 168 but if the RJJ that fought at 168 had fought Joe at any time in his career Roy would have won. I'm not saying Kessler was overrated or taking away from Joe's achievments they are great, he is a great great fighter, but i do not believe he is better than RJJ was at 168.
The proof is in the pudding.
If Joe moves up & fights 6 fighters at 175lbs & then retires...I wouldn't say that Calzaghe was better @ 175lbs than Roy was.
Joe did more & fought a better list of fighters @ 168lbs...you can't spin that too many different ways. Again...Roy WAS a great fighter...but he was great @ 175lbs where he established his dominance.
Also...nothing is certain regarding the RJJ at 168 walking through Joe...but it is fun to speculate. ;)
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
Agreed...that we'll have to disagree...& agree on...disagreeing. ;) :P :coolclick:
Re: Manfredo Lacy set... Hatton Mayweather undercard.
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Originally Posted by wacko3205
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Originally Posted by eagle
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Originally Posted by wacko3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
The Roy vs Joe @ 168lbs arguement kills me.
Roy fought Toney, Antoine Byrd, Pazienza, Thorton, Sosa, Lucas, & Brannon. Everyone ups Jones so highly off of those opponents at 168lbs & that list really aint S***. I'm sorry...but it's not. The only worthy name there is Toney. Paz was waaaaaaaay past it. Brannon was much to talk about nor was Byrd or Thorton. Lucas was so so.
Those are a bulk of names, outside of Toney, that hold no merit...but everyone lambasts Calzaghe for dominating his division at a weak time...but it's not like Jones fought the strongest opposition at 168lbs.
Roy was a marvel at 175lbs & that is where he fought his best opposition.
Roy was a marvel @168 too. Instead of hanging around at 168 where the opposition was weak he moved up. No doubt RJJ could have had 21 defenses @ 168 if he'd tried. Again i agree Joe has the better record @ 168 but if the RJJ that fought at 168 had fought Joe at any time in his career Roy would have won. I'm not saying Kessler was overrated or taking away from Joe's achievments they are great, he is a great great fighter, but i do not believe he is better than RJJ was at 168.
The proof is in the pudding.
If Joe moves up & fights 6 fighters at 175lbs & then retires...I wouldn't say that Calzaghe was better @ 175lbs than Roy was.
Joe did more & fought a better list of fighters @ 168lbs...you can't spin that too many different ways. Again...Roy WAS a great fighter...but he was great @ 175lbs where he established his dominance.
Also...nothing is certain regarding the RJJ at 168 walking through Joe...but it is fun to speculate. ;)
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
Agreed...that we'll have to disagree...& agree on...disagreeing. ;) :P :coolclick:
CC back.
Re: Manfredo Lacy set... Hatton Mayweather undercard.
roy jones was pretty fantastic at 160- 168 too.. the way he beat james toney was un believable at the time. it was like watching a magician Roy Jones. all of a sudden out of thin air..bamn bamn bamn.. Toney was dumbfounded . masterful performance by Jones. he also had solid performace with Hopkins and Hopkins was very good at that time. I think Id pick roy jones in his prime over anyone in the 160-175 range, in any boxing era . now Calzaghe has the tall awkward southpaw thing going and a good chin ,, but Jones was so fast and instinctive, reflexes like mongoose not to mention on hell of knockout punch. Would have been a goodin
Re: Manfredo Lacy set... Hatton Mayweather undercard.
how do you do a cool click ?
Re: Manfredo Lacy set... Hatton Mayweather undercard.
I would give a shot for Joe Calzaghe and Micheal Spinks to beat Roy between 168 and 175. But that is just a thought i proably get alot of shit for saying that but hell i going against the current i guess.
Re: Manfredo Lacy set... Hatton Mayweather undercard.
O yea you said 160 to i pick Hagler and also Monzon to have a shot at beating Roy as well.
Re: Manfredo Lacy set... Hatton Mayweather undercard.
One more i forgot to i think that Micheal Moore would be a hard fight at 175. Moore was pretty dominate when he was in lightheavy weight but most remeber him for losing to George Foreman. But i mean at lightweight he was very impressive with 22 wins i think all by knock out be a hard fight for Roy and i would favor Moore to win that one and thats all the fighters i am going to name.
Re: Manfredo Lacy set... Hatton Mayweather undercard.
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Originally Posted by wacko3205
The Roy vs Joe @ 168lbs arguement kills me.
Roy fought Toney, Antoine Byrd, Pazienza, Thorton, Sosa, Lucas, & Brannon. Everyone ups Jones so highly off of those opponents at 168lbs & that list really aint shit. I'm sorry...but it's not. The only worthy name there is Toney. Paz was waaaaaaaay past it. Brannon was much to talk about nor was Byrd or Thorton. Lucas was so so.
Those are a bulk of names, outside of Toney, that hold no merit...but everyone lambasts Calzaghe for dominating his division at a weak time...but it's not like Jones fought the strongest opposition at 168lbs.
Roy was a marvel at 175lbs & that is where he fought his best opposition.
The same can be said about Calzaghe. The only names at Super Middleweight are Lacy and Kessler and Eubank who wasnt at his best though I haven't seen the Eubank fight. But I can't see any Hall of Fame names on Calzaghe's record(those that went on to have Hall of Fame careers rather then those who were already cemented like Eubank's career was.
But lets not compare records when we talk about fighters lets look at their styles, I think Roy would have handed Calzaghe his ass.
Calzaghe is a great fighter but Roy was a phonomenal one especially at light heavyweight, at super middleweight I can't see him losing. And I don't see Calzaghe dominating a prime super middleweight toney.
I'm not knocking Calzaghe trhough
And you saying that Roy didn't fight he best at Super Middleweight. James Toney was top2 p4p beside Pernell Whitaker back then wasnt he? I didn't read Ring Magazine back then so I don't know.
The best Super Middleweight when Roy fought him was James Toney.
You're right Calzaghe did more at Super Middleweight then Roy did.
Re: Manfredo Lacy set... Hatton Mayweather undercard.
I think that any fighter who is a FIGHTER can beat Manfredo.
if Lacy ( who is over rated by the way ) is 20 % he KO'S Manfredo , who is simply one of the worst prize fighters i have ever had the misfortune to see fight.:)xr
Re: Manfredo Lacy set... Hatton Mayweather undercard.
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Originally Posted by eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
The Roy vs Joe @ 168lbs arguement kills me.
Roy fought Toney, Antoine Byrd, Pazienza, Thorton, Sosa, Lucas, & Brannon. Everyone ups Jones so highly off of those opponents at 168lbs & that list really aint S***. I'm sorry...but it's not. The only worthy name there is Toney. Paz was waaaaaaaay past it. Brannon was much to talk about nor was Byrd or Thorton. Lucas was so so.
Those are a bulk of names, outside of Toney, that hold no merit...but everyone lambasts Calzaghe for dominating his division at a weak time...but it's not like Jones fought the strongest opposition at 168lbs.
Roy was a marvel at 175lbs & that is where he fought his best opposition.
Roy was a marvel @168 too. Instead of hanging around at 168 where the opposition was weak he moved up. No doubt RJJ could have had 21 defenses @ 168 if he'd tried. Again i agree Joe has the better record @ 168 but if the RJJ that fought at 168 had fought Joe at any time in his career Roy would have won. I'm not saying Kessler was overrated or taking away from Joe's achievments they are great, he is a great great fighter, but i do not believe he is better than RJJ was at 168.
The proof is in the pudding.
If Joe moves up & fights 6 fighters at 175lbs & then retires...I wouldn't say that Calzaghe was better @ 175lbs than Roy was.
Joe did more & fought a better list of fighters @ 168lbs...you can't spin that too many different ways. Again...Roy WAS a great fighter...but he was great @ 175lbs where he established his dominance.
Also...nothing is certain regarding the RJJ at 168 walking through Joe...but it is fun to speculate. ;)
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
Agreed...that we'll have to disagree...& agree on...disagreeing. ;) :P :coolclick:
CC back.
Gentlemen,
It was a pleasure to read a good boxing debate without either protagonist resorting to insults of each other of the boxers in question.
You both made good points. It's a shame there aren't so many posters like you.
Many regards
Re: Manfredo Lacy set... Hatton Mayweather undercard.
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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
I think that any fighter who is a FIGHTER can beat Manfredo.
if Lacy ( who is over rated by the way ) is 20 % he KO'S Manfredo , who is simply one of the worst prize fighters i have ever had the misfortune to see fight.:)xr
I fail to understand how you can say that. We are all entitled to our oppinions but really... 20%? WTF? Manfredo, love him or hate him is in the top 15 SMWs. He has cracked the top ten and fought for a world title(unearned I agree). But non the less, he has been there if for experience alone. Who's to say that Manfredo couldn't have withstood the same beating Lacy took for 12 rounds... We will never know. If Lacy slipped as many punches as Manfredo did on that final "flurry" then he may have done a little better. I do not think manfredo deserves or deserved a title shot but he bolongs where he is now and for someone to say that he is "the worst prize fighter" they had ever seen is just a rediculous statement.
Like I said, though, we are all entitled to our oppinions nomatter how rediculous they may be.
Manfredo will make a fight of it. I lean towards Lacy(even after he surgery)
Re: Manfredo Lacy set... Hatton Mayweather undercard.
I'm not totally surprised to see this thread hijacked by Joe Calzaghe arguments, but for me this is an interesting bout that can stand on its own two feet, and could well put the winner on the way to another title shot. I'm sure Lacy's team will have being doing a whole heap of rehabilitation on that shoulder, and I think the result could well hinge on how well that work has been going. If his shoulder's good, second round KO, if it doesnt' do the business, Lacy SD.
Re: Manfredo Lacy set... Hatton Mayweather undercard.
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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON
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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
I think that any fighter who is a FIGHTER can beat Manfredo.
if Lacy ( who is over rated by the way ) is 20 % he KO'S Manfredo , who is simply one of the worst prize fighters i have ever had the misfortune to see fight.:)xr
I fail to understand how you can say that. We are all entitled to our oppinions but really... 20%? WTF? Manfredo, love him or hate him is in the top 15 SMWs. He has cracked the top ten and fought for a world title(unearned I agree). But non the less, he has been there if for experience alone. Who's to say that Manfredo couldn't have withstood the same beating Lacy took for 12 rounds... We will never know. If Lacy slipped as many punches as Manfredo did on that final "flurry" then he may have done a little better. I do not think manfredo deserves or deserved a title shot but he bolongs where he is now and for someone to say that he is "the worst prize fighter" they had ever seen is just a rediculous statement.
Like I said, though, we are all entitled to our oppinions nomatter how rediculous they may be.
Manfredo will make a fight of it. I lean towards Lacy(even after he surgery)
Well he wouldnt even be a fighter with a winning record if he wasnt from a tv show the guy is a joke for me sorry pride i just think he plain sucks
Re: Manfredo Lacy set... Hatton Mayweather undercard.
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Originally Posted by superheavyrhun
I'm not totally surprised to see this thread hijacked by Joe Calzaghe arguments, but for me this is an interesting bout that can stand on its own two feet, and could well put the winner on the way to another title shot. I'm sure Lacy's team will have being doing a whole heap of rehabilitation on that shoulder, and I think the result could well hinge on how well that work has been going. If his shoulder's good, second round KO, if it doesnt' do the business, Lacy SD.
Understandable. I think Manfredo can be more ellusive then people think. I think second round KO is a little over the top but I like I said I'm leaning toward Lacy but itle be a good fight!
