Re: Bernard Hopkins wants david haye if?
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Originally Posted by Fenster
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Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
The size difference is too much...But in no way make the mistake Haye is skill wise a .000001 the fighter Hopkins....There seems to be a lot of bandwagon love for Hay because of the Mormeck win...Before everyone gets in line so they can give ol Hayemake a handjob lets see him string 2 or 3 world class wins first huh :-\
I mean really other then Mormeck who has he heaten?...Glen Kelly?...Tomasz Bonin?....a 68yr old Arthur Williams?...The only other REAL quality name on his resume is Carl Thompson and we all know how that worked out for him..
This fight was only mentioned because Haye was sitting in the studio with the radio guy interviewing Hopkins about Calzaghe. So this is silly but...
..it wouldn't matter about skill. Would you back a 43 year old world class middleweight against a 27 year old world class cruiserweight/heavyweight?
As it goes, Haye said he admired Hopkins. Hopkins is one of his heroes.
It would only be the size difference that would give Haye the advantage...Nothing else....As for being world class currently I put him in the Carlos Baldomir catagory....A decent fighter with a win over a very good one....TBH other then power there is nothing about Haye that impresses me...Power won't always carry you through...lets see mwhat happens after a few more fights with the upper class is my point.....IMO and I said this before the Mormeck win and after I don't think Haye can beat Bell
Re: Bernard Hopkins wants david haye if?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
The size difference is too much...But in no way make the mistake Haye is skill wise a .000001 the fighter Hopkins....There seems to be a lot of bandwagon love for Hay because of the Mormeck win...Before everyone gets in line so they can give ol Hayemake a handjob lets see him string 2 or 3 world class wins first huh :-\
I mean really other then Mormeck who has he heaten?...Glen Kelly?...Tomasz Bonin?....a 68yr old Arthur Williams?...The only other REAL quality name on his resume is Carl Thompson and we all know how that worked out for him..
This fight was only mentioned because Haye was sitting in the studio with the radio guy interviewing Hopkins about Calzaghe. So this is silly but...
..it wouldn't matter about skill. Would you back a 43 year old world class middleweight against a 27 year old world class cruiserweight/heavyweight?
As it goes, Haye said he admired Hopkins. Hopkins is one of his heroes.
It would only be the size difference that would give Haye the advantage...Nothing else....As for being world class currently I put him in the Carlos Baldomir catagory....A decent fighter with a win over a very good one....TBH other then power there is nothing about Haye that impresses me...Power won't always carry you through...lets see mwhat happens after a few more fights with the upper class is my point.....IMO and I said this before the Mormeck win and after I don't think Haye can beat Bell
Baldomir/Haye comparison? For fucks sake, you wanna try again? ;D
You're comparing an ancient-tough-journeyman, that got lucky (maybe deservedly so) at the tail end of his career with a 21 fight, 27 year old that knocked out the no.1 cruiserweight champion as a bonus on his way to attempting heavyweight glory.
You don't rate Haye, fair enough, but he can't do more than beat the BEST guy in the division. Mormeck beat Bell, right?
Re: Bernard Hopkins wants david haye if?
And Baldo beat the #1 WW in the division at the time and a P4P ranked fighter at the time....And again you are not getting the point...Just because he beat Mormeck does not make him elite..even if Mormeck was the #1 man in the division.....It takes more then just one win against a top guy to get into that catagory...Thats like saying Douglas was the baddest man on the planet because he beat Tyson...Look how that ended up...Or Rahman is one of the greatest HWTS in the last 25 years because he KO'd Lewis...
To be considered elite you have to perform that way more then once...As I stated before what did or who did Haye beat before Mormeck that garners such things?....and to win a world title at 27 is not all that impressive...I can name 100 champions past or present that did it long before the age of 27
Re: Bernard Hopkins wants david haye if?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
The size difference is too much...But in no way make the mistake Haye is skill wise a .000001 the fighter Hopkins....There seems to be a lot of bandwagon love for Hay because of the Mormeck win...Before everyone gets in line so they can give ol Hayemake a handjob lets see him string 2 or 3 world class wins first huh :-\
I mean really other then Mormeck who has he heaten?...Glen Kelly?...Tomasz Bonin?....a 68yr old Arthur Williams?...The only other REAL quality name on his resume is Carl Thompson and we all know how that worked out for him..
This fight was only mentioned because Haye was sitting in the studio with the radio guy interviewing Hopkins about Calzaghe. So this is silly but...
..it wouldn't matter about skill. Would you back a 43 year old world class middleweight against a 27 year old world class cruiserweight/heavyweight?
As it goes, Haye said he admired Hopkins. Hopkins is one of his heroes.
It would only be the size difference that would give Haye the advantage...Nothing else....As for being world class currently I put him in the Carlos Baldomir catagory....A decent fighter with a win over a very good one....TBH other then power there is nothing about Haye that impresses me...Power won't always carry you through...lets see mwhat happens after a few more fights with the upper class is my point.....IMO and I said this before the Mormeck win and after I don't think Haye can beat Bell
Stop the nonsense Daxx
This is the dumbest argumet ever... why dont we have Floyd move up and face Edison Miranda.. Sure Floyd is 10x more skilled. but Miranda is bigger and stronger and nodoubt would have a superhuman beard against the smaller guy and Mirand awould knock Mayweather the Fuk out
Re: Bernard Hopkins wants david haye if?
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Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
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Originally Posted by Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
The size difference is too much...But in no way make the mistake Haye is skill wise a .000001 the fighter Hopkins....There seems to be a lot of bandwagon love for Hay because of the Mormeck win...Before everyone gets in line so they can give ol Hayemake a handjob lets see him string 2 or 3 world class wins first huh :-\
I mean really other then Mormeck who has he heaten?...Glen Kelly?...Tomasz Bonin?....a 68yr old Arthur Williams?...The only other REAL quality name on his resume is Carl Thompson and we all know how that worked out for him..
This fight was only mentioned because Haye was sitting in the studio with the radio guy interviewing Hopkins about Calzaghe. So this is silly but...
..it wouldn't matter about skill. Would you back a 43 year old world class middleweight against a 27 year old world class cruiserweight/heavyweight?
As it goes, Haye said he admired Hopkins. Hopkins is one of his heroes.
It would only be the size difference that would give Haye the advantage...Nothing else....As for being world class currently I put him in the Carlos Baldomir catagory....A decent fighter with a win over a very good one....TBH other then power there is nothing about Haye that impresses me...Power won't always carry you through...lets see mwhat happens after a few more fights with the upper class is my point.....IMO and I said this before the Mormeck win and after I don't think Haye can beat Bell
Stop the nonsense Daxx
This is the dumbest argumet ever... why dont we have Floyd move up and face Edison Miranda.. Sure Floyd is 10x more skilled. but Miranda is bigger and stronger and nodoubt would have a superhuman beard against the smaller guy and Mirand awould knock Mayweather the Fuk out
Pretty sure somewhere on here I said the size difference would be the factor...skill would have nothing to do with it...My whole arguement was I don't think Haye is all that world class and why is everyone on the bandwagon over the Mormeck win as if he is the second coming of Roy Jones with a punch like a Prime Tyson....
So You stop the non sense JT Rock....
Re: Bernard Hopkins wants david haye if?
Haye vs Hopkins ??
And i thought Hopkins said he was realistic ;D
Re: Bernard Hopkins wants david haye if?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
And Baldo beat the #1 WW in the division at the time and a P4P ranked fighter at the time....And again you are not getting the point...Just because he beat Mormeck does not make him elite..even if Mormeck was the #1 man in the division.....It takes more then just one win against a top guy to get into that catagory...Thats like saying Douglas was the baddest man on the planet because he beat Tyson...Look how that ended up...Or Rahman is one of the greatest HWTS in the last 25 years because he KO'd Lewis...
To be considered elite you have to perform that way more then once...As I stated before what did or who did Haye beat before Mormeck that garners such things?....and to win a world title at 27 is not all that impressive...I can name 100 champions past or present that did it long before the age of 27
I'm talking about an elite cruiserweight. Haye made good progress, winning the European title and competing against former worldclass cruisers before beating THE MAN. He beat the best man, that make's him the best man, an elite cruiser until he's dethroned, no?
You don't think it's all about beating THE MAN? That's why a GREAT fighter like Floyd was able to have a piss easy gimme against a journeyman-plodder like Baldomir, because Baldomir became THE MAN. How could they justify that fight otherwise?
I was using Haye's age in comparison with Hopkins.
You don't like Haye, fine. Whether you like it or not he's the best cruiserweight in the world. ;)
Re: Bernard Hopkins wants david haye if?
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Originally Posted by Starr
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Originally Posted by Fenster
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Originally Posted by Starr
Miss me?
What if?
Well if Hay and Hopkins fought Hopkins would beat him on a way to a decision. Haye isn't exactly the most crafty fighter and his chin is a little suspect, Hopkins would outbox him on his way to a decision.
;D
Hopkins wouldn't step within a 100 miles of a boxing ring that Haye was in.
It wasn't a serious proposition.
Only because there would be no money to be made.
If they fought however, hopkins would win in a one sided fashion :)
The only reason he wouldnt step within 100 miles of a boxing ring haye was in, was because a ring with Roy Jones or Joe Calzaghe has a golden dollar sign above it ;)
Haye has underrated skills and has 1 hit KO power at Heavyweight Haye murders grandpa Hopkins.
Re: Bernard Hopkins wants david haye if?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
And Baldo beat the #1 WW in the division at the time and a P4P ranked fighter at the time....And again you are not getting the point...Just because he beat Mormeck does not make him elite..even if Mormeck was the #1 man in the division.....It takes more then just one win against a top guy to get into that catagory...Thats like saying Douglas was the baddest man on the planet because he beat Tyson...Look how that ended up...Or Rahman is one of the greatest HWTS in the last 25 years because he KO'd Lewis...
To be considered elite you have to perform that way more then once...As I stated before what did or who did Haye beat before Mormeck that garners such things?....and to win a world title at 27 is not all that impressive...I can name 100 champions past or present that did it long before the age of 27
I'm talking about an elite cruiserweight. Haye made good progress, winning the European title and competing against former worldclass cruisers before beating THE MAN. He beat the best man, that make's him the best man, an elite cruiser until he's dethroned, no?
You don't think it's all about beating THE MAN? That's why a GREAT fighter like Floyd was able to have a piss easy gimme against a journeyman-plodder like Baldomir, because Baldomir became THE MAN. How could they justify that fight otherwise?
I was using Haye's age in comparison with Hopkins.
You don't like Haye, fine. Whether you like it or not he's the best cruiserweight in the world. ;)
cc Fenster totally agree.
Re: Bernard Hopkins wants david haye if?
No way Haye kills Hopkins. He should win but i dont think it'd be that easy. Got to remember BHOP would put on some weight too.
Sam Peter has more power than Haye and he didnt KO James Toney just cos he was bigger. U could argue that if Lights Out was fit he could have beaten big Sam. If BHOP was 200 pounds he'd be able to beat Haye IMO.
Re: Bernard Hopkins wants david haye if?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
And Baldo beat the #1 WW in the division at the time and a P4P ranked fighter at the time....And again you are not getting the point...Just because he beat Mormeck does not make him elite..even if Mormeck was the #1 man in the division.....It takes more then just one win against a top guy to get into that catagory...Thats like saying Douglas was the baddest man on the planet because he beat Tyson...Look how that ended up...Or Rahman is one of the greatest HWTS in the last 25 years because he KO'd Lewis...
To be considered elite you have to perform that way more then once...As I stated before what did or who did Haye beat before Mormeck that garners such things?....and to win a world title at 27 is not all that impressive...I can name 100 champions past or present that did it long before the age of 27
I'm talking about an elite cruiserweight. Haye made good progress, winning the European title and competing against former worldclass cruisers before beating THE MAN. He beat the best man, that make's him the best man, an elite cruiser until he's dethroned, no?
You don't think it's all about beating THE MAN? That's why a GREAT fighter like Floyd was able to have a piss easy gimme against a journeyman-plodder like Baldomir, because Baldomir became THE MAN. How could they justify that fight otherwise?
I was using Haye's age in comparison with Hopkins.
You don't like Haye, fine. Whether you like it or not he's the best cruiserweight in the world. ;)
He is the champion no one can argue that he is sitting on top of the throne in the division right now...My point is that just because he is the CW champion it does not make him the next greatest thing to boxing as sliced bread is to sandwhiches...
People have a tendency to go overboard...They take a good win then blow it WAAAYYYYY out of proportion...next come the threads about Haye beating Holyfield prime for prime at CW...then the same people who said Holy was the greatest CW of all time a week ago will now say "Haye destroys Holy!"......Or there will bve Haye Vs Jones prime for prime and the same result...it happens all the time here.....
Haye beat Mormeck and it was a good win against a good fighter who was on top of the CW division....Again I can name 100 guys throughout the years who beat the man in the division but it did not make them great...since they fizzled out right after...EG the reference to Baldo....
It happens here after every fight....we can name the fight and it will or has happened....people did it after the Tarver win over Jones...There were Tarver Calzaghe threads...Tarver spinks threads......
You can take Tommy Fatass who picks his nose for a living outside boxing and he could have a resord of 0-100 then he gets a miracle punch over Wlad Klitschko and the next day the threads will start with...."Tommy Fatass Vs Ali, Tommy Fatass vs Holmes"...You answered your own question....Haye beat FORMER WORLD CLASS CRUISERS...Key word is FORMER......
Why is it a good win is always blown up?.....god forbid the guy has a few good wins against a few world class or even top caliber guys before everyone starts to pull his pud?.....No everyone has to sit with the bandwagon running next to the ring in case a guy wins....
AND the part that kills me is half of the people singing his praises now dismissed him before the fight began..and if he loses his next fight those same people will be saying "I told you so"
Re: Bernard Hopkins wants david haye if?
Sure don't make him great, Daxx. I'm the last person you'll hear calling a guy GREAT. And Haye certainly aint that.
His win just make's him THE MAN at cruiser at the moment.
This thread was about Hopkins-Haye. As I said before it's not something that Hopkins would even contemplate, and it's not something that will EVER, EVER EVER happen in a gazillion years.
I was one of the guys that believed in Haye. I'm not jumping on any bandwagon ;)
Re: Bernard Hopkins wants david haye if?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Sure don't make him great, Daxx. I'm the last person you'll hear calling a guy GREAT. And Haye certainly aint that.
His win just make's him THE MAN at cruiser at the moment.
This thread was about Hopkins-Haye. As I said before it's not something that Hopkins would even contemplate, and it's not something that will EVER, EVER EVER happen in a gazillion years.
I was one of the guys that believed in Haye. I'm not jumping on any bandwagon ;)
I was just saying in general Fen...I also said that the size would be a factor....To much of it....That is when I was just mentioning that everyone is jumping on the Haye wagon....seriously think about it...before the Mormeck fight how often did we see Haye post?,,,,now he beats Mormeck and all of a sudden everyone is interested in him?....How many posters here even dismissed Mormeck himself?....not saying you in specific but in general?....It always gets out of hand...then everyone wants to argue other points....
BTW...You dropped your Haye For Prime Minister button ;)....Messin with ya mate CC....
Re: Bernard Hopkins wants david haye if?
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Originally Posted by Bernard "Details don't mean Shit" Hopkins
"If Calzaghe and Frank Warren are serious, they can cross the Red Sea and come over to the United States, because we're the best in everything we do.
"Joe Calzaghe never fought outside the UK [he has, twice], he never fought in America. I've fought in Paris, I fought in Quito, Ecuador.
"Let's see how he fights when he hasn't got 40-50,000 of his own fans behind him. To me, a great champion can go anywhere in the world, out of his comfort zone and still deliver.
"I'm not convinced [by Calzaghe], America is not convinced. Let him leave his home town and try to invade the United States and beat Bernard Hopkins, a great champion, a legend."
The Philadelphian, with a career record of 48 wins, four losses and a draw from 54 fights, added that he felt under no pressure to make the fight happen, despite the intense public and media clamour.
"I've never ducked anyone. Bernard Hopkins has beaten people that nobody else wanted to fight - Winky Wright, Antonio Tarver. I knocked out Felix Trinidad easily, Oscar de la Hoya with a body shot, I had world title 20 defences.
"If it happens it happens, if it don't it don't.
"I was sat at home in my rocking chair, sipping a cup of tea, with my teeth in a glass, minding my own business.
"I'd get more attention and more out of it if I waited to fight the winner of Roy Jones-Felix Trinidad [due to take place on 19 January]."
If this really is Hopkins with these outlandish statements, then here's the rebuttal. Numbered for easy comprehension by loudmouth Philadelphia trashtalkers.
1) The Red Sea lies between Egypt and Asia. If Calzaghe crossed the red sea to fight Hopkins, it wouldn't surprise me that Hopkins gave him a false address and started running the other way.
2) "Joe Calzaghe never fought outside the UK" - as the article points out, Joe Calzaghe has fought outside the UK twice, winning both times, although not against fantastic opponents. To hear Hopkins' claims, you'd think he'd won against fantastic opposition in his overseas excursions. In France in '92, he beat a guy with a record of 8-8-1, although admittedly Hopkins was still developing at that stage. His fight in Ecuador was a draw, against Segundo Mercado, whom he would later KO in 7, and for Mercado to disappear from the radar, winning 1, drawing 1 and losing 7 of the 9 further fights he had before retirement. Hardly a glittering overseas fighting record, eh Mr Hopkins.
3) As Hopkins has surely done, Calzaghe has also fought within Britain but in the hometown of his opponents. At most, 29 of his 43 fights have taken place with Calzaghe as the home fighter (fights across Britain involving Joe, but against foreign opponents included in figures, with all other fights taking place in neutral or hostile venues. Obviously...he has only fought in front of 40-50,000 people once, in the biggest unfication fight ever to take place at Super-middleweight.
4) "He mentioned my name after the fight, I didn't mention his." - Hopkins has repeatdly mentioned the name of Calzaghe over the years, since 2002 and probably even before that. Reported by the BBC in 2002:
"Right now I'm negotiating along with Don King and Jay Larkin of Showtime," Hopkins told maxboxing.com.
"We're talking to him about two fights, maybe my mandatory defence too, which makes it a three-fight deal.
"It would be the mandatory, Harry Simon and Joe Calzaghe."
And by the way, that quote also annuls the argument that Hopkins' withdrawal from a negotiation in 2003 was bogus, because he would never fight for Don King. He admitted it himself.
5) "I'd get more attention and more out of it if I waited to fight the winner of Roy Jones-Felix Trinidad" - Utter nonsense. Although it might be an attractive fight between two legends of the game, Hopkins actually gaining some measure of revenge over a washed up Roy Jones would gain little critical acclaim, as opposed to beating a prime Calzaghe who had unified the SMW's in his previous fight.
==========
Anyway, on the main topic of the thread, there's no way in hell Hopkins would go in with a guy as big as Haye with his speed and power. It would just overwhelm him, in terms of size difference and the stages of their careers.
Re: Bernard Hopkins wants david haye if?
I feel out of the loop who is Haye any how i mean i did not know the crusierdivsion was that big of a deal i mean the only Cruiser i know is Evander and that is the only one i care to know Crusier is like LightMiddle just a passing through weight not to many make a legacy at that weight.
