Re: I think I know why Mayweather won't fight Cotto
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Originally Posted by shza
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Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker
Disagree about Margarito, he held WBO Welterweight World Title and made 6 defense's i think ??
As Bill Detloff says in today's update to The Ring, "Any of you still enamored of the WBO are hereby reminded that you are as a logical consequence in full agreement with the following statement: 'Herbie Hide is a two-time heavyweight champion.'" Plus Margarito didn't even get that belt by beating the former beltholder. I agree there are arguments to be made that he's not a bum, but the WBO title argument isn't a persuasive one.
There's alot of current, good fighters with WBO title.
Ivan Calderon
Kelly Pavlik
Daniel Ponce De Leon
Joan Guzman
Just to name a few.
Re: I think I know why Mayweather won't fight Cotto
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
I'm not going through that dude,been through it way too mant times. Margarito is top 5 on every list I've seen,that's good enough for me. He's beaten far better fighters than Clottey and beaten Clottey,so there goes youur argument.
No, the argument is that Clottey would have won if he hadn't broken his hand. The fact that he lost a fight that he was dominating once he got injured doesn't prove anything about Margarito, other than that he can beat a one-handed fighter.
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
Tony would WRECK Oscar at this atage of his career.
That is an absolutely ridiculous statement. What basis could you possibly have for that? Tony has never faced anyone remotely as good as even an old Oscar. He lost twice to Daniel fucking Santos. He lost his last fight too. He has no defense. He is absurdly slow. What more can I say? His punches are all wide as hell.
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
I've also told you,and it's a well known fact that Tony was injured going into the fight too.
Every fighter who fights poorly says they were injured. He fought exactly the same as he always does. He obviously wasn't injured to the extent Clottey was.
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
He fought Clottey voluntariyl,when he didn't have to. If you aren't willing to respect him for that,espcially as every other name fighter has turned Joshua down,then that's your choice.
Clottey looked like crap his fight immediately preceding the Margarito fight, and Margarito was heavily favored to dominate. I don't get it-- he fights a guy he's supposed to beat and is only able to follow through because the guy is forced to fight one-handed, and that's somehow supposed to garner him extra respect? Really not following your logic....
I mean, I tried to play nice, but really. I thought the Margarito discussion would be done a long time ago. He needs to rematch Clottey and Cintron (or, to be fair, Cintron needs to rematch him) or at least Williams before anyone talks about Margarito in the same breath as the top tier (Mayweather, Cotto, Mosley) again. Even then though, it'll be an overreach -- the guy is just way too technically flawed and slow to ever be a truly elite fighter.
Re: I think I know why Mayweather won't fight Cotto
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Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker
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Originally Posted by shza
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Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker
Disagree about Margarito, he held WBO Welterweight World Title and made 6 defense's i think ??
As Bill Detloff says in today's update to The Ring, "Any of you still enamored of the WBO are hereby reminded that you are as a logical consequence in full agreement with the following statement: 'Herbie Hide is a two-time heavyweight champion.'" Plus Margarito didn't even get that belt by beating the former beltholder. I agree there are arguments to be made that he's not a bum, but the WBO title argument isn't a persuasive one.
There's alot of current, good fighters with WBO title.
Ivan Calderon
Kelly Pavlik
Daniel Ponce De Leon
Joan Guzman
Just to name a few.
They're good because they're good (except Ponce), not because they are the "WBO Champion." That was my point here:
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Originally Posted by shza
I agree there are arguments to be made that he's not a bum, but the WBO title argument isn't a persuasive one.
Re: I think I know why Mayweather won't fight Cotto
Well what was Clazaghe belt for the past 10 years and 22 title diffences just to ask.
Re: I think I know why Mayweather won't fight Cotto
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Originally Posted by Mr140
Well what was Clazaghe belt for the past 10 years and 22 title diffences just to ask.
Who cares? He's recognized as the best in the division because he's the best, not because he had some stupid alphabet strap. And as a matter of logic, the fact that Calzaghe has Belt A at SMW has nothing to do with the value of Margarito's Belt A at WW. Just to clarify the fallacy, it's the same logic as this:
1. Lots of great fighters currently hold no belts (ODH, Mosley, Winky Wright, and Rafa Marquez, to name just a few).
2. Therefore, the fact that Margarito currently has no belt means he's great.
Re: I think I know why Mayweather won't fight Cotto
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Originally Posted by shza
I agree. Cotto and Williams need to fight each other first. If Mayweather fights Cotto now, he'll be called a coward for ducking the undefeated Punisher Paul Williams (and vice-versa). Let the contenders sort it out amongst themselves for a shot at the king. That said, Cotto is the most worthy competitor out there right now. He's had a very good year.
Seriously?
Nah I don't think so, there may be a few on the lunatic fringe who would criticize Mayweather for fighting Cotto but that's about it. Maybe more the other way around but Williams is such a freak physically that I doubt criticism would be that widespread, maybe more so because Cotto's thought of as the number one contender but still I don't think he'd be ripped.
I didn't even think Hatton was the best option out there but I didn't have any problem with the fight. If he fought Cotto next how could anyone complain. I mean I criticized him a lot for his post-Castillo 135 fights and his absurd stint at 140 but if he fought Cotto next he would have fought Zab, Baldomir, ODLH, Hatton, and Cotto in his past five fights, how could you criticize that?
That being said I do see the point of the original poster although I would get a bit impatient, its a fight that needs to be made, above pretty much any fight in boxing.
Re: I think I know why Mayweather won't fight Cotto
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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
No this is not another PBF hater thread. Killersheep's thread got me to thinking. And I realize that Mayweather would be stupid to fight Cotto now.
Why?
Because if he beat's Cotto now there will be nothing left for him to do. There will be no more fights worth making.
Williams is still too green. Mosley just lost and is too old. Margarito and Cintron are just not good enough. The rest are just not known enough.
There is nobody woth fighting at 140. There is nobody worth fighting at 154. All he could do is rematch fighter's he has already beaten for less money than the original fight made.
The way Floyd talks about Cotto is not like someone who is afraid and it is not like someone who thinks Cotto is unworthy. The impression I got was that he felt the time was not right yet. I think Floyd is a smart business man and he knows it is time to be patient.
Let Cotto establish himself as the undisputed king of 147. Let Williams blossom into the solid undefeated champion that he is bound to be (possibly even taking over 154 if he moves up). Lot all those unknown fighters get known. Let Cintron and Margarito demonstrate if they are truelly a threat. Let it zizzle, let it boil...... Just remember to stay in shape.
I think this is what Floyd wants to do. He is goint to let the red hot WW division sort itself out. He's going to wait till those up and comers get known. Then he is going to go after the top dogs from 140 to 154.
If he fights Cotto now, he will have no choice but to retire afterwards and I don't think he really wants to do that yet. He loves what he does and he is going to keep doing it.
I think you are correct for the most part, but I still think Floyd is a bit wary of Cotto. If Arum offered Mayweather the right amount of money right now, the fight would be on in about six months, maybe even on the eve of the Puerto Rican Day Parade in New York at the Garden. But I agree that this is about business/slash money and Cotto, though well known, must defeat someone of caliber and well-known status across the world for Cotto-Floyd to be the megabout Floyd needs to agree to fight Cotto. Thus, it seems like Cotto needs to fight Oscar de la Hoya AND defeat him without scoring controversies in order for Cotto-Floyd to happen around this time next year.
Re: I think I know why Mayweather won't fight Cotto
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Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker
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Originally Posted by shza
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Originally Posted by Cotto_Is_4_Real
One more thing. Just read that Mayweather and company are now back to the who is game.
Who is Cotto they are asking.
Why didn't Floyd say that on Saturday?
Chicken shiet Floyd will duck Cotto just like he did with Margarito.
:o
But Danny, the point is that Mayweather was exactly right with respect to Margarito. He's a hyped journeyman who went on to lose once again as soon as he couldn't get a Floyd fight. You'd be the first person to say Floyd is dodging Paul Williams (or someone else) if Floyd beat Cotto (once you were done claiming that Floyd cheated, the ref was paid off, the judges were paid off, and Cotto was injured/weight drained). It'll never end.
Disagree about Margarito, he held WBO Welterweight World Title and made 6 defense's i think ?? his loss to Santos was at Lightmiddleweight and it could of gone either way plus the fight was stopped after accidental head butt and it went to the score cards and Margarito lost razor thin decision. His early losses were also very close fights, and his loss to Williams he performed very well against one of the best Welterweights in the world today. I think people get the wrong impression about Margarito, i can tell you this much he is far from a journeyman fighter, and he will be back stronger and better.
Margarito would do a better job against Floyd than Hatton did. Margarito is bigger, stronger, taller, and has better stamina than Hatton showed against Floyd.
Re: I think I know why Mayweather won't fight Cotto
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Originally Posted by Cotto_Is_4_Real
Floyd will fight Cotto once the operation is done.
Floyd Mayweather Jr. is having an Addsumballstohim next week.
I hope the operation is a success and I hope that Floyd's body does not reject the
testicals they are going to add. I heard the balls they are using for this procedure were taken from a donor stuntman who died while doing a stunt jumping out of an airplane so, this should be some good set of balls.
Fine then let me say this
Just for Cotto fighting an old fighter in Mosley and a fighter who didn't earn his shot in Judah.
That Cotto is scared of Clottey, Cintron, Margarito, and Paul Williams.
Why don't you answer why your hero hasn't fought any of them yet?
Re: I think I know why Mayweather won't fight Cotto
Well Shane is just a good a win as any that Floyde has beat at the weight and Cotto has not said he would not fight them PBF the one saying he is going to retire so what your point buddy.
Re: I think I know why Mayweather won't fight Cotto
SHZA,your arguments go out of the window when you call Tony a bum and have Paul Williams at number 3 in your list. If his best win is over the bum Margarito,how can he be number 3 on your list. Stop making yourself look foolish.
Re: I think I know why Mayweather won't fight Cotto
I jut feel there is too much at stake now for Flyod to fight Cotto. I agree that Floyd will fight him after he become the WW king, and defeats all challengers. In that case, even if PBF lost it would be seen as a loss to the best out there, as now Cotto is still not esablished as the next best WW out there. Williams, Cotto, Margarito, and even Cintron need to sort out who's the best and most deserving before fighting PBF, cuz like it or not, he's the top dog rigth now.He can afford to pick and choose his fights, like Oscar does.
Also, I was not very impressed with what Floyd did against Hatton, as Hatton is essentially a balloned up jr welter at best. Cotto would present a lot bigger problem, as he is much bigger and considerably harder punching than Hatton. Floyd's not much of a risk taker, and a loss would shatter his persona, the whole im the best ever and im invincible act would be shattered.
Re: I think I know why Mayweather won't fight Cotto
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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
No this is not another PBF hater thread. Killersheep's thread got me to thinking. And I realize that Mayweather would be stupid to fight Cotto now.
Why?
Because if he beat's Cotto now there will be nothing left for him to do. There will be no more fights worth making.
Williams is still too green. Mosley just lost and is too old. Margarito and Cintron are just not good enough. The rest are just not known enough.
There is nobody woth fighting at 140. There is nobody worth fighting at 154. All he could do is rematch fighter's he has already beaten for less money than the original fight made.
The way Floyd talks about Cotto is not like someone who is afraid and it is not like someone who thinks Cotto is unworthy. The impression I got was that he felt the time was not right yet. I think Floyd is a smart business man and he knows it is time to be patient.
Let Cotto establish himself as the undisputed king of 147. Let Williams blossom into the solid undefeated champion that he is bound to be (possibly even taking over 154 if he moves up). Lot all those unknown fighters get known. Let Cintron and Margarito demonstrate if they are truelly a threat. Let it zizzle, let it boil...... Just remember to stay in shape.
I think this is what Floyd wants to do. He is goint to let the red hot WW division sort itself out. He's going to wait till those up and comers get known. Then he is going to go after the top dogs from 140 to 154.
If he fights Cotto now, he will have no choice but to retire afterwards and I don't think he really wants to do that yet. He loves what he does and he is going to keep doing it.
you're spot on CC.
I don't really hear Cotto clamouring for this fight at the moment either, just who Bob puts in front him.
This fight WILL be made IF and when it makes sense financially. The main reason Floyd shoots his mouth off ans says he's the best in history and that he doesn't need to fight anymore, and claims he has nothing to prove, is to put himself with the upper hand in any future negotiations, after all, if he said he was desperate to fight Cotto and his legacy wouldn't mean anything without him, he would obviously lose that advantage.
Re: I think I know why Mayweather won't fight Cotto
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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
No this is not another PBF hater thread. Killersheep's thread got me to thinking. And I realize that Mayweather would be stupid to fight Cotto now.
Why?
Because if he beat's Cotto now there will be nothing left for him to do. There will be no more fights worth making.
Williams is still too green. Mosley just lost and is too old. Margarito and Cintron are just not good enough. The rest are just not known enough.
There is nobody woth fighting at 140. There is nobody worth fighting at 154. All he could do is rematch fighter's he has already beaten for less money than the original fight made.
The way Floyd talks about Cotto is not like someone who is afraid and it is not like someone who thinks Cotto is unworthy. The impression I got was that he felt the time was not right yet. I think Floyd is a smart business man and he knows it is time to be patient.
Let Cotto establish himself as the undisputed king of 147. Let Williams blossom into the solid undefeated champion that he is bound to be (possibly even taking over 154 if he moves up). Lot all those unknown fighters get known. Let Cintron and Margarito demonstrate if they are truelly a threat. Let it zizzle, let it boil...... Just remember to stay in shape.
I think this is what Floyd wants to do. He is goint to let the red hot WW division sort itself out. He's going to wait till those up and comers get known. Then he is going to go after the top dogs from 140 to 154.
If he fights Cotto now, he will have no choice but to retire afterwards and I don't think he really wants to do that yet. He loves what he does and he is going to keep doing it.
Oh...I thought you were going to say Floyd had just married a puerta rican woman and she begged him not to fight a puerta rican ;) ;D
Re: I think I know why Mayweather won't fight Cotto
Floyd will fight Cotto, you guys wait and see. Floyd isn't scared of anyone, and if he is hesitant about any of the 147's, it will be Williams, just because of the logistics of fighting a freaky beast with that much reach and high output.
But Floyd might wait to see who beats who among the contenders and then fight that guy. Why does Floyd have to fight all of them? I'd still like to see Cotto try and get past P. Williams. Tony had a hard time getting in there, and Cotto is even shorter. Margarito/Cotto is the one I want, or Williams/Cotto, or possibly a rematch with Williams for Tony. Cintron is a joke, so I won't even count him.
Floyd will beat them all, with a possible exception to Williams.
