My British P4P list

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Originally Posted by leftylee

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Originally Posted by Tam Seddon

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Originally Posted by leftylee

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Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez

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Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

You know me Tam, I'm always open to be convinced, but although the manner of wins against Reid and Tatevosyan were reasonably good, they weren't exactly spring chickens, with Tatevosyan having lost two of the three fights before Froch and Reid comebacking for one last swing at glory.

As for Napa, he pushed the European champion hard early in the year, then claimed and defended the British title twice against quality British opposition. If Froch did more fighting and less talking I might be more inclined to promote him into the list.

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You know me Tam, I'm always open to be convinced, but although the manner of wins against Reid and Tatevosyan were reasonably good, they weren't exactly spring chickens, with Tatevosyan having lost two of the three fights before Froch and Reid comebacking for one last swing at glory.

You say that but wasn't Earl coming off a bad beating as well ?? and didn't a lot of people consider him *past it* yet you have Khan on the list and not Froch.

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Earl was more of a threat than Reid and Tatevosyan put together ICB. Earl was considered a dangerous opponent for khan after dropping Katsidis and was a former WBU, British and Commenwealth champion and with Khan's questionable chin people thought Earl was the person to exploit Khan and even Katsidis said if Earl fights like he did against me he will beat Khan but he just blasted him out in 72 seconds and done maybe worse to Earl in terms of damage than what Katsidis done in 5 rounds, when Katsidis landed flush shots he could'nt KO him in the ring his corner had to pull him Earl out. Reid was coming off a layoff of just one 8 rounder in 2 years against a contender bum while Earl was coming off a 10 month layoff. Big Differnce bro.

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leftlylee for once we disagree ! Reid and Tatevosyan has names themselves and for froch to get rid of them both in 7 rounds is a good performance. Im giving my favrourite fighter more on the benefit here but its not always about knocking the fighter out as quick as possible, if you can do it in style like Froch did against Reid and Tate he still gets the thumbs up. Thats why i dont no why Froch hasnt even got a slight mention in your list Rhun ;D

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Talk about style in KO'ing Tam son :laugh: look what Khan did to Earl one more time and it was worse than what Froch did to no-hoper Tatevosyan and gay porn modeler Reid put together. ;D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cL2Sz__jw4

You know what I'm talking about Tam. Froch was maybe good but Khan was EXPLOSIVE.

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I was very pleased with Khan that night, I didnt expect him to knock him out that fast. Froch isnt anywere near as fast as Khan obviosuly because of weight... but Frochs Ko came so early and the fact he had never been stopped before added to it. As for Ried dont forget he was a champion of the world and before the lacy fight he had never ever hit the mat. Lacy is powerful as well so that asserts the fact that Froch is powerful as well. I was happy with both of them, but in differnt ways if you get me ?

Yes I get you bro I would just like to see Froch get in with a worthy opponent for once.

well my post on the suppermiddleweights put that all into perspective. Im sure he will fight Inkin next and he has a big name. 2008 will potentially be an amazing year for Froch

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Originally Posted by leftylee

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Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez

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Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

You know me Tam, I'm always open to be convinced, but although the manner of wins against Reid and Tatevosyan were reasonably good, they weren't exactly spring chickens, with Tatevosyan having lost two of the three fights before Froch and Reid comebacking for one last swing at glory.

As for Napa, he pushed the European champion hard early in the year, then claimed and defended the British title twice against quality British opposition. If Froch did more fighting and less talking I might be more inclined to promote him into the list.

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You know me Tam, I'm always open to be convinced, but although the manner of wins against Reid and Tatevosyan were reasonably good, they weren't exactly spring chickens, with Tatevosyan having lost two of the three fights before Froch and Reid comebacking for one last swing at glory.

You say that but wasn't Earl coming off a bad beating as well ?? and didn't a lot of people consider him *past it* yet you have Khan on the list and not Froch.

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Earl was more of a threat than Reid and Tatevosyan put together ICB. Earl was considered a dangerous opponent for khan after dropping Katsidis and was a former WBU, British and Commenwealth champion and with Khan's questionable chin people thought Earl was the person to exploit Khan and even Katsidis said if Earl fights like he did against me he will beat Khan but he just blasted him out in 72 seconds and done maybe worse to Earl in terms of damage than what Katsidis done in 5 rounds, when Katsidis landed flush shots he could'nt KO him in the ring his corner had to pull him Earl out. Reid was coming off a layoff of just one 8 rounder in 2 years against a contender bum while Earl was coming off a 10 month layoff. Big Differnce bro.

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Earl was more of a threat than Reid and Tatevosyan put together ICB.

Don't see how you work that one out, Reid is former World champion and is very durable fighter, and Sergey Tatevosyan had never been stopped going into Froch fight. And he had been in there with likes of Lucian Bute and Howard Eastman.

Earl was considered a dangerous opponent for khan after dropping Katsidis

It was a flash knockdown and Katsidis got right up and continued to batter Earl, except for that split second knockdown Earl got his a** handed to him.

Earl fights like he did against me he will beat Khan but he just blasted him out in 72 seconds and done maybe worse to Earl in terms of damage than what Katsidis done in 5 rounds,

In terms of damage Katsidis done a lot more damage, Earl was just caught cold against Khan.

Reid was coming off a layoff of just one 8 rounder in 2 years against a contender bum while Earl was coming off a 10 month layoff. Big Differnce bro.

And Earl was coming off a bad beating, and was considered past his peak.

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Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

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Originally Posted by leftylee

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Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez

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Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

You know me Tam, I'm always open to be convinced, but although the manner of wins against Reid and Tatevosyan were reasonably good, they weren't exactly spring chickens, with Tatevosyan having lost two of the three fights before Froch and Reid comebacking for one last swing at glory.

As for Napa, he pushed the European champion hard early in the year, then claimed and defended the British title twice against quality British opposition. If Froch did more fighting and less talking I might be more inclined to promote him into the list.

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You know me Tam, I'm always open to be convinced, but although the manner of wins against Reid and Tatevosyan were reasonably good, they weren't exactly spring chickens, with Tatevosyan having lost two of the three fights before Froch and Reid comebacking for one last swing at glory.

You say that but wasn't Earl coming off a bad beating as well ?? and didn't a lot of people consider him *past it* yet you have Khan on the list and not Froch.

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Earl was more of a threat than Reid and Tatevosyan put together ICB. Earl was considered a dangerous opponent for khan after dropping Katsidis and was a former WBU, British and Commenwealth champion and with Khan's questionable chin people thought Earl was the person to exploit Khan and even Katsidis said if Earl fights like he did against me he will beat Khan but he just blasted him out in 72 seconds and done maybe worse to Earl in terms of damage than what Katsidis done in 5 rounds, when Katsidis landed flush shots he could'nt KO him in the ring his corner had to pull him Earl out. Reid was coming off a layoff of just one 8 rounder in 2 years against a contender bum while Earl was coming off a 10 month layoff. Big Differnce bro.

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Yup, I'm with you lee on this one. ;). Earl had been involved in FOTY contender against Katsidis who is now a player on the world stage at his weight, whilst Tatevosyan's surprise turnover of Rudy Markussen wasn't really on the same scale at all. As for Reid, like lee says the layoff for Reid was a big difference. He'd been retired whilst Earl had been working hard to rebuild after an excellent fight and hard-man performance against Katsidis.

Another point I'd also like to add is that Khan has been jumping up the rankings and progressing a lot this year, whilst Froch has really stagnated a bit and slipped in my estimations because of his failure to either keep busy or get big fights. Two fights against that quality opposition just isn't enough at this stage for Froch.

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Yup, I'm with you lee on this one. ;). Earl had been involved in FOTY contender against Katsidis

He got battered in that fight.

Who is now a player on the world stage at his weight, whilst Tatevosyan's surprise turnover of Rudy Markussen wasn't really on the same scale at all.

Earl caught Katsidis off balance with flash knockdown, apart from that he got a beating he didn't even look like he should be in the same ring.

And Tatevosyan went the distance with Lucian Bute who is now a major player in the Super Middleweight division.


As for Reid, like lee says the layoff for Reid was a big difference. He'd been retired whilst Earl had been working hard to rebuild after an excellent fight and hard-man performance against Katsidis.

He had been gone for just a bit over 1 year, he had a warm up fight going into Froch fight. Earl got battered in Katsidis fight i don't understand why you keep bringing up that fight, except for flash knockdown he was beaten badly.

Another point I'd also like to add is that Khan has been jumping up the rankings and progressing a lot this year, whilst Froch has really stagnated a bit and slipped in my estimations because of his failure to either keep busy or get big fights.

Froch has had two good performance's this year against two durable opponents who have been in there with World class opposition. Khan fought Limond who was feather fisted and was dropped and almost stopped. He had a good win over a shot Earl, but in your mind you think thats better than dominating Reid and Sergey Tatevosyan ??

Don't see how you work that one out, Reid is former World champion and is very durable fighter, and Sergey Tatevosyan had never been stopped going into Froch fight. And he had been in there with likes of Lucian Bute and Howard Eastman.

Former World Champion yes Ice 10 years ago and not durable after that layoff and he had nothing left against Froch and even Froch stated that Reid was past his best, Reid was more shot than Earl and even you should know that. As for Sergey Tatevosyan yes he's been in with some good names but did he beat them?? NO and in 2006 he got beat by a fighter who was 3-0 and was 34 when he fought Froch implying he was nothing special and he was shot. You say he fought Howard Eastman and yes he did and that was in his prime and he still got beat by scores of 5,11 and 3 points so not exactly close.

It was a flash knockdown and Katsidis got right up and continued to batter Earl, except for that split second knockdown Earl got his a** handed to him.

You say a flash knockdown again. Every fighter that I like that knocks down another fighter you say it was a flash knockdown, how was it flash Katsidis was stunned and shaken by the knockdown.

In terms of damage Katsidis done a lot more damage, Earl was just caught cold against Khan.

Just caught cold, how can you say that he went down off a left, got back up and got his a** handed to him. Watch that vid and he must of took half a dozen flush shots in that corner and Earl never even landed one through the fight. How did Katsidis do more damage, it took him 5 full rounds to get Earl out of there when Khan took 72 seconds without Earl throwing one single shot back.


And Earl was coming off a bad beating, and was considered past his peak.

Past his peak, Earl never said that, Warren never said that, Khan never said that, Earl had just got a new trainer and was training in Florida for this bout and was convinced he would win, just because he got bashed by Katsidis does'nt mean he was past his peak and people were'nt saying that going into the fight and even you said when I showed the lists of the betting odds by round it's worth a few quid on Earl for them odds. Also beforehand as I say people mentioned Earl will exploit Khans chin etc etc but he never, Khan blasted him in 72 seconds and beat the daylight S*** out of him and that is the truth.

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Originally Posted by leftylee

Don't see how you work that one out, Reid is former World champion and is very durable fighter, and Sergey Tatevosyan had never been stopped going into Froch fight. And he had been in there with likes of Lucian Bute and Howard Eastman.

Former World Champion yes Ice 10 years ago and not durable after that layoff and he had nothing left against Froch and even Froch stated that Reid was past his best, Reid was more shot than Earl and even you should know that. As for Sergey Tatevosyan yes he's been in with some good names but did he beat them?? NO and in 2006 he got beat by a fighter who was 3-0 and was 34 when he fought Froch implying he was nothing special and he was shot. You say he fought Howard Eastman and yes he did and that was in his prime and he still got beat by scores of 5,11 and 3 points so not exactly close.

It was a flash knockdown and Katsidis got right up and continued to batter Earl, except for that split second knockdown Earl got his a** handed to him.

You say a flash knockdown again. Every fighter that I like that knocks down another fighter you say it was a flash knockdown, how was it flash Katsidis was stunned and shaken by the knockdown.

In terms of damage Katsidis done a lot more damage, Earl was just caught cold against Khan.

Just caught cold, how can you say that he went down off a left, got back up and got his a** handed to him. Watch that vid and he must of took half a dozen flush shots in that corner and Earl never even landed one through the fight. How did Katsidis do more damage, it took him 5 full rounds to get Earl out of there when Khan took 72 seconds without Earl throwing one single shot back.


And Earl was coming off a bad beating, and was considered past his peak.

Past his peak, Earl never said that, Warren never said that, Khan never said that, Earl had just got a new trainer and was training in Florida for this bout and was convinced he would win, just because he got bashed by Katsidis does'nt mean he was past his peak and people were'nt saying that going into the fight and even you said when I showed the lists of the betting odds by round it's worth a few quid on Earl for them odds. Also beforehand as I say people mentioned Earl will exploit Khans chin etc etc but he never, Khan blasted him in 72 seconds and beat the daylight S*** out of him and that is the truth.

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Former World Champion yes Ice 10 years ago

He was still competing at high level way after that like against Ottke, Magee, etc.

Earl had just got a new trainer and was training in Florida for this bout and was convinced he would win,

Every boxer is convinced they can beat anybody.

As for Sergey Tatevosyan yes he's been in with some good names but did he beat them?? NO

Earl has only been in with one world class name and did he win ?? nope, did he get a pasting ?? yep.

and in 2006 he got beat by a fighter who was 3-0

Earl was beaten by 9-0 fighter in 2005 ;)

and was 34 when he fought Froch implying he was nothing special and he was shot.

He went 12 rounds with Bute just before Froch fight so he had plenty left.

You say he fought Howard Eastman and yes he did and that was in his prime and he still got beat by scores of 5,11 and 3 points so not exactly close.

Well it was only in 2004 and he did give Eastman a good argument, and remember Eastman has been in there with the likes of Hopkins, Joppy.


Every fighter that I like that knocks down another fighter you say it was a flash knockdown,

Give me examples of when i have said this ?? Oh don't tell me your on about Collazo vs Hatton situation are you ?? ::**

Oh well im sorry to hurt your feelings but facts are facts, Collazo was caught cold by flash knockdown he wasn't hurt at all. If that isn't flash knockdown what is then ??

Katsidis was caught off balance he was knocked down and got straight back up and continued to give Earl a beating, except for that split second moment. Earl was never in the fight and got a bad beating.

Just caught cold, how can you say that he went down off a left, got back up and got his a** handed to him.

Earl was not warmed up properly and he didn't look to have really any fire in him and soon as the bell sounded i could see it. He got caught cold as he didn't expect Khan to come out so fast after the 1st knock down he was finished.

How did Katsidis do more damage, it took him 5 full rounds to get Earl out of there when Khan took 72 seconds without Earl throwing one single shot back.


Because Katsidis landed about 100 more punches.


Past his peak, Earl never said that, Warren never said that, Khan never said that,

Like Earl, Khan, Warren, would admit that get real. Every boxer thinks they have one last good one in them, and Khan is hardly going to admit Earl is past his best, and Warren manages Khan so you think he would say Earl was past it ?? just think about that for a second.

people were'nt saying that going into the fight

Plenty on this forum thought Earl had a decent chance because of his power, and they see how feather fisted Limond wobbled and dropped Khan. But i also see a lot of members on here saying Earl was past his peak.

Earl will exploit Khans chin etc etc but he never, Khan blasted him in 72 seconds and beat the daylight S*** out of him and that is the truth.

Yes but how does one good performance against decent opponent, make him rated higher than Froch ?? explain that.

He was still competing at high level way after that like against Ottke, Magee, etc.

Maybe but those fights happened in excess of 3 years beore when he was fighting Froch and was at that time fighting actively, not after a long layoff wanting to earn a bit more cash.


Earl has only been in with one world class name and did he win ?? nope, did he get a pasting ?? yep.

Name one world class fighter that Froch has been in with which they are not SHOT, Earls beat Romanov the current EBU lightweight champ in prime.


Earl was beaten by 9-0 fighter in 2005

At least Ricky Burns was known on the British scene and had 6 fights more.


He went 12 rounds with Bute just before Froch fight so he had plenty left.

Yes and how many rounds did he win Ice??? i'll tell you just 1 on two of the scorecards so that makes him real good does'nt it.


Well it was only in 2004 and he did give Eastman a good argument, and remember Eastman has been in there with the likes of Hopkins, Joppy.

Yes and got beat by both of them.


Give me examples of when i have said this ?? Oh don't tell me your on about Collazo vs Hatton situation are you ??

Yep


Oh well im sorry to hurt your feelings but facts are facts, Collazo was caught cold by flash knockdown he wasn't hurt at all. If that isn't flash knockdown what is then ??

You tell me, but a flash knockdown certainly was not when Earl dropped Katsidis.

Katsidis was caught off balance he was knocked down and got straight back up and continued to give Earl a beating, except for that split second moment. Earl was never in the fight and got a bad beating.

So he never rocked Katsidis then ?? yes he did take a look after the knockdown Katsidis was wobbling.


Earl was not warmed up properly and he didn't look to have really any fire in him and soon as the bell sounded i could see it. He got caught cold as he didn't expect Khan to come out so fast after the 1st knock down he was finished.

Not warmed up properly ::** so every fighter who gets bet in the 1st round it's because there not warmed up properly, give over, the fact of the matter is Earl did'nt realise how good Khan was and got took to school.

Because Katsidis landed about 100 more punches.

And did'nt Ko him in the ring or force the ref to stop it and also Earl as throwing shots back when Katsidis was on the attack but he never with Khan as Khan gave him no space to do so. What does that say about Katsidis' then ??? please tell me ICB ;)


Like Earl, Khan, Warren, would admit that get real. Every boxer thinks they have one last good one in them, and Khan is hardly going to admit Earl is past his best, and Warren manages Khan so you think he would say Earl was past it ?? just think about that for a second.

Warren also mangaes Earl too BTW and it's funny the way people say Earl was shot after he got destroyed by Khan to the same token Castillo was shot when he got destroyed by Hatton. I don't know ey ::**


Plenty on this forum thought Earl had a decent chance because of his power, and they see how feather fisted Limond wobbled and dropped Khan. But i also see a lot of members on here saying Earl was past his peak.

What happened in the next round did not Khan break his nose and jaw to Limond ???


Yes but how does one good performance against decent opponent, make him rated higher than Froch ?? explain that.

Did I ever say he's rated higher than Froch??? but he's fought better opposition than Froch has I can safely say that and I can say Froch has fought bums or past contenders not modern age contenders.

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Originally Posted by leftylee

He was still competing at high level way after that like against Ottke, Magee, etc.

Maybe but those fights happened in excess of 3 years beore when he was fighting Froch and was at that time fighting actively, not after a long layoff wanting to earn a bit more cash.


Earl has only been in with one world class name and did he win ?? nope, did he get a pasting ?? yep.

Name one world class fighter that Froch has been in with which they are not SHOT, Earls beat Romanov the current EBU lightweight champ in prime.


Earl was beaten by 9-0 fighter in 2005

At least Ricky Burns was known on the British scene and had 6 fights more.


He went 12 rounds with Bute just before Froch fight so he had plenty left.

Yes and how many rounds did he win Ice??? i'll tell you just 1 on two of the scorecards so that makes him real good does'nt it.


Well it was only in 2004 and he did give Eastman a good argument, and remember Eastman has been in there with the likes of Hopkins, Joppy.

Yes and got beat by both of them.


Give me examples of when i have said this ?? Oh don't tell me your on about Collazo vs Hatton situation are you ??

Yep


Oh well im sorry to hurt your feelings but facts are facts, Collazo was caught cold by flash knockdown he wasn't hurt at all. If that isn't flash knockdown what is then ??

You tell me, but a flash knockdown certainly was not when Earl dropped Katsidis.

Katsidis was caught off balance he was knocked down and got straight back up and continued to give Earl a beating, except for that split second moment. Earl was never in the fight and got a bad beating.

So he never rocked Katsidis then ?? yes he did take a look after the knockdown Katsidis was wobbling.


Earl was not warmed up properly and he didn't look to have really any fire in him and soon as the bell sounded i could see it. He got caught cold as he didn't expect Khan to come out so fast after the 1st knock down he was finished.

Not warmed up properly ::** so every fighter who gets bet in the 1st round it's because there not warmed up properly, give over, the fact of the matter is Earl did'nt realise how good Khan was and got took to school.

Because Katsidis landed about 100 more punches.

And did'nt Ko him in the ring or force the ref to stop it and also Earl as throwing shots back when Katsidis was on the attack but he never with Khan as Khan gave him no space to do so. What does that say about Katsidis' then ??? please tell me ICB ;)
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Like Earl, Khan, Warren, would admit that get real. Every boxer thinks they have one last good one in them, and Khan is hardly going to admit Earl is past his best, and Warren manages Khan so you think he would say Earl was past it ?? just think about that for a second.[/u]

Warren also mangaes Earl too BTW and it's funny the way people say Earl was shot after he got destroyed by Khan to the same token Castillo was shot when he got destroyed by Hatton. I don't know ey ::**


Plenty on this forum thought Earl had a decent chance because of his power, and they see how feather fisted Limond wobbled and dropped Khan. But i also see a lot of members on here saying Earl was past his peak.

What happened in the next round did not Khan break his nose and jaw to Limond ???


Yes but how does one good performance against decent opponent, make him rated higher than Froch ?? explain that.

Did I ever say he's rated higher than Froch??? but he's fought better opposition than Froch has I can safely say that and I can say Froch has fought bums or past contenders not modern age.

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Maybe but those fights happened in excess of 3 years beore when he was fighting Froch and was at that time fighting actively, not after a long layoff wanting to earn a bit more cash.

Reid was considered one of the top Super Middleweights until he lost to Lacy, and even for 4 rounds he was fighting even with Lacy until he got hit on the break and went down. And that seemed to badly effect him, Reid is a tough durable opponent who was Former world champion, and has been in there with a lot of World class opposition and Froch stopped him in fine fashion. Was Reid past his peak ?? yes but was he still durable tough opponent ?? yes.

Name one world class fighter that Froch has been in with which they are not SHOT, Earls beat Romanov the current EBU lightweight champ in prime.

I'll return that question to you and say name me one World class fighter Khan has beat ?? Romanov is decent at European level but i see his last fight and he struggled with 43-11 fighter, he is goodish with quite a bit of power but thats it.

At least Ricky Burns was known on the British scene and had 6 fights more.

They were both beaten by mere novice's but they both have had decent careers so far, because Burns has achieved quite a bit in his career so far, and Dmitry Pirog has gone undefeated in 10 pro fights.

Yes and how many rounds did he win Ice??? i'll tell you just 1 on two of the scorecards so that makes him real good does'nt it.

It makes him durable tough opponent, Bika also only won 2 or 3 rounds vs Bute but he is still tough durable opponent. And considering Bute is one of the top Super Middleweights in the world at the moment that was quite an achievement, plus Froch is the only man to ever stop him so he deserves props for that and more props than what you and Super are giving him. Oh and while we are on the subject how many rounds did Earl win vs Katsidis ?? because by your logic it doesn't make Sergey Tatevosyan good because he only won 1 or 2 rounds vs Bute, but Earl didn't win any rounds vs Katsidis so that makes him even worse by that logic does it not ??

Yep

If you can't see thats flash knockdown then im speechless, because your the only one that doesn't consider that flash knockdown and im talking about Hatton vs Collazo.

ou tell me, but a flash knockdown certainly was not when Earl dropped Katsidis.

A flash knockdown is when you are not badly effected by it and you are up straight away, both of the things i mentioned Katsidis done and he then went about kicking Earl's a**.

So he never rocked Katsidis then ?? yes he did take a look after the knockdown Katsidis was wobbling.

I didn't see Katsidis hurt i see him get floored get up and then dominate Earl, but thats my opinion.

Not warmed up properly Roll Eyes so every fighter who gets bet in the 1st round it's because there not warmed up properly, give over, the fact of the matter is Earl did'nt realise how good Khan was and got took to school.

You are taking things out of context i didn't say every fighter who gets beat in 1st round isn't warmed up ::**

But you could see he was not warmed up, im not taking anything away from Kahn he done the job in impressive fashion. But once you get caught cold like Earl did your finished just like Enzo vs Hobson 2.

And did'nt Ko him in the ring or force the ref to stop it and also Earl as throwing shots back when Katsidis was on the attack but he never with Khan

In the final round he battered Earl all along the ropes with about 30 punches, its obvious Katsidis done more damage, because the beating lasted longer.

as Khan gave him no space to do so. What does that say about Katsidis' then Huh please tell me ICB Wink
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Never really thought much of Katsidis either except he is exciting, i mean in his last fight he had big problems with mediocre fighter like Czar.

Warren also mangaes Earl too BTW and it's funny the way people say Earl was shot after he got destroyed by Khan to the same token Castillo was shot when he got destroyed by Hatton. I don't know ey

Plenty said Earl was not at his peak, Khan is Warren's hype machine and makes him a lot of money, do you honestly think Warren would admit Earl wasn't in his peak ??

What happened in the next round did not Khan break his nose and jaw to Limond

Yep but it doesn't change the fact that he was badly hurt and floored by feather fisted opponent, who has mostly fought fighters with losing records ;)

Did I ever say he's rated higher than Froch??? but he's fought better opposition than Froch has I can safely say that and I can say Froch has fought bums or past contenders not modern age.

Robin Reid
Sergey Tatevosyan
Brian Magee
Tony Dodson

I'll take these opponent over.

Graham Earl
Willie Limond
Scott Lawton
Steffy Bull

I'll reply later CBA at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Tam Seddon

well my post on the suppermiddleweights put that all into perspective. Im sure he will fight Inkin next and he has a big name. 2008 will potentially be an amazing year for Froch

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Hopefully, I want to see Froch step it up a notch too, but I think that if Calzaghe doesn't make the Hopkins fight, he'll stick at SMW for another few months, and the division which is on the up will have to wait to have a selection of champs once more.

As for lee and ICB's last few posts...can you just reply to each other, cause putting stuff in bold makes it really hard work to read. Anyway, I don't think Earl's knockdown of Katsidis was a flash knockdown, Katsidis looked dazed for a short period afterwards.

However, I maintain that Khan's performances this year have shown significantly more development, promise and achievement than Froch's have in my opinion. Khan showed that he can return from a knockdown, and although dazed fought through to demolish Limond sharpish, and hammer Earl before he could move. However much we discuss Tatevosyan, ultimately he'd lost two of the last three, and Froch did what was expected in KOing him and Reid, no more. That's why I picked Khan over Froch.

ICB I really CBA arguing with you on this as your totally biased real badly because you Know Froch is overrated and fought bums.


Reid was considered one of the top Super Middleweights until he lost to Lacy, and even for 4 rounds he was fighting even with Lacy until he got hit on the break and went down. And that seemed to badly effect him, Reid is a tough durable opponent who was Former world champion, and has been in there with a lot of World class opposition and Froch stopped him in fine fashion. Was Reid past his peak ?? yes but was he still durable tough opponent ?? yes.

How is he still tough and durable after a long layoff and 36 years old, you seen in the Brinkley fight he was totally shot and had nothing left. BTW Lacy destroyed Reid it was a one man beating.

I'll return that question to you and say name me one World class fighter Khan has beat ?? Romanov is decent at European level but i see his last fight and he struggled with 43-11 fighter, he is goodish with quite a bit of power but thats it.

I'd take Graham Earl when he fought Khan over Robin Reid when he fought Froch anyday.
REID WAS COMPLETELY SHOT!!!!!!! how many times do I have to say it.

They were both beaten by mere novice's but they both have had decent careers so far, because Burns has achieved quite a bit in his career so far, and Dmitry Pirog has gone undefeated in 10 pro fights.

Against 10 bums, GREAT.

It makes him durable tough opponent, Bika also only won 2 or 3 rounds vs Bute but he is still tough durable opponent. And considering Bute is one of the top Super Middleweights in the world at the moment that was quite an achievement, plus Froch is the only man to ever stop him so he deserves props for that and more props than what you and Super are giving him. Oh and while we are on the subject how many rounds did Earl win vs Katsidis ?? because by your logic it doesn't make Sergey Tatevosyan good because he only won 1 or 2 rounds vs Bute, but Earl didn't win any rounds vs Katsidis so that makes him even worse by that logic does it not ??

Because he took 1 round of Lucian Bute, stop talking S*** and Bute is behind Calzaghe and Kessler so he's no world beater, lets put things into perspective. Scoring a knockdown looks better than winning a round I would say that for sure.

If you can't see thats flash knockdown then im speechless, because your the only one that doesn't consider that flash knockdown and im talking about Hatton vs Collazo.

Did I say it was not a flash knockdown.???

A flash knockdown is when you are not badly effected by it and you are up straight away, both of the things i mentioned Katsidis done and he then went about kicking Earl's a**.

But Katsidis was stunned afterwards.

You are taking things out of context i didn't say every fighter who gets beat in 1st round isn't warmed up

But you could see he was not warmed up, im not taking anything away from Kahn he done the job in impressive fashion. But once you get caught cold like Earl did your finished just like Enzo vs Hobson 2.

I'm not being funny etc ICB but after reflection that is the most ridicoulous comment you have ever said. "Khan beat him because Earl was not warmed up" OMG :laugh: Khan blasted Earl end of.

In the final round he battered Earl all along the ropes with about 30 punches, its obvious Katsidis done more damage, because the beating lasted longer.

It could not of been that much of a beating for it to last 5 full rounds and the ref to throw the towel out of the ring when Earl's trainer threw it in.

Yep but it doesn't change the fact that he was badly hurt and floored by feather fisted opponent, who has mostly fought fighters with losing records

Were'nt Kelly Pavlik hurt and floored by JT and came back up to win?? Yes he was. Fought fighters with losing records?? Have you heard yourself Sergey tdfyuyuufyyfui or whatever his name was 26-7 and beaten nobody good and Robin Reid was shot totally and Tony Dodson had fought total bums.

ICB you really are one biased c*** for Froch and Khan is easily ranked ahead of him you say you'd take Froch's 4 over Khan's but Reid was totally SHOT and was just a name, Sergy had been beaten by everybody and your achievement for Froch is knocking out a guy Bute could'nt. Ohh what an achievement so let's say from now on Jeff Lacy is better than Calzaghe because he KO'd Reid and Calzaghe never.

Tony Dodson had fought total nobodys and Brian Magee was nothing special.

ICB also Froch is 30 and fought those opponents when Khan fought 28-1 fighters after just 13 fights so it took that long for Froch to mature as a fighter when look at Khan, he's doing that to those type fighters KO'ing world title contenders eg Earl etc in just one round at just 20 years of age.

You just can't take Ice that Froch has fought bums and Amir is actually going places in boxing. ::**

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Originally Posted by leftylee

ICB I really CBA arguing with you on this as your totally biased real badly because you Know Froch is overrated and fought bums.


Reid was considered one of the top Super Middleweights until he lost to Lacy, and even for 4 rounds he was fighting even with Lacy until he got hit on the break and went down. And that seemed to badly effect him, Reid is a tough durable opponent who was Former world champion, and has been in there with a lot of World class opposition and Froch stopped him in fine fashion. Was Reid past his peak ?? yes but was he still durable tough opponent ?? yes.

How is he still tough and durable after a long layoff and 36 years old, you seen in the Brinkley fight he was totally shot and had nothing left. BTW Lacy destroyed Reid it was a one man beating.

I'll return that question to you and say name me one World class fighter Khan has beat ?? Romanov is decent at European level but i see his last fight and he struggled with 43-11 fighter, he is goodish with quite a bit of power but thats it.

I'd take Graham Earl when he fought Khan over Robin Reid when he fought Froch anyday.
REID WAS COMPLETELY SHOT!!!!!!! how many times do I have to say it.

They were both beaten by mere novice's but they both have had decent careers so far, because Burns has achieved quite a bit in his career so far, and Dmitry Pirog has gone undefeated in 10 pro fights.

Against 10 bums, GREAT.

It makes him durable tough opponent, Bika also only won 2 or 3 rounds vs Bute but he is still tough durable opponent. And considering Bute is one of the top Super Middleweights in the world at the moment that was quite an achievement, plus Froch is the only man to ever stop him so he deserves props for that and more props than what you and Super are giving him. Oh and while we are on the subject how many rounds did Earl win vs Katsidis ?? because by your logic it doesn't make Sergey Tatevosyan good because he only won 1 or 2 rounds vs Bute, but Earl didn't win any rounds vs Katsidis so that makes him even worse by that logic does it not ??

Because he took 1 round of Lucian Bute, stop talking S*** and Bute is behind Calzaghe and Kessler so he's no world beater, lets put things into perspective. Scoring a knockdown looks better than winning a round I would say that for sure.

If you can't see thats flash knockdown then im speechless, because your the only one that doesn't consider that flash knockdown and im talking about Hatton vs Collazo.

Did I say it was not a flash knockdown.???

A flash knockdown is when you are not badly effected by it and you are up straight away, both of the things i mentioned Katsidis done and he then went about kicking Earl's a**.

But Katsidis was stunned afterwards.

You are taking things out of context i didn't say every fighter who gets beat in 1st round isn't warmed up

But you could see he was not warmed up, im not taking anything away from Kahn he done the job in impressive fashion. But once you get caught cold like Earl did your finished just like Enzo vs Hobson 2.

I'm not being funny etc ICB but after reflection that is the most ridicoulous comment you have ever said. "Khan beat him because Earl was not warmed up" OMG :laugh: Khan blasted Earl end of.

In the final round he battered Earl all along the ropes with about 30 punches, its obvious Katsidis done more damage, because the beating lasted longer.

It could not of been that much of a beating for it to last 5 full rounds and the ref to throw the towel out of the ring when Earl's trainer threw it in.

Yep but it doesn't change the fact that he was badly hurt and floored by feather fisted opponent, who has mostly fought fighters with losing records

Were'nt Kelly Pavlik hurt and floored by JT and came back up to win?? Yes he was. Fought fighters with losing records?? Have you heard yourself Sergey tdfyuyuufyyfui or whatever his name was 26-7 and beaten nobody good and Robin Reid was shot totally and Tony Dodson had fought total bums.

ICB you really are one biased c*** for Froch and Khan is easily ranked ahead of him you say you'd take Froch's 4 over Khan's but Reid was totally SHOT and was just a name, Sergy had been beaten by everybody and your achievement for Froch is knocking out a guy Bute could'nt. Ohh what an achievement so let's say from now on Jeff Lacy is better than Calzaghe because he KO'd Reid and Calzaghe never.

Tony Dodson had fought total nobodys and Brian Magee was nothing special.

ICB also Froch is 30 and fought those opponents when Khan fought 28-1 fighters after just 13 fights so it took that long for Froch to mature as a fighter when look at Khan, he's doing that to those type fighters KO'ing world title contenders eg Earl etc in just one round at just 20 years of age.

You just can't take Ice that Froch has fought bums and Amir is actually going places in boxing. ::**

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ICB I really CBA arguing with you on this as your totally biased real badly because you Know Froch is overrated and fought bums.

Umm no its called different opinion i go with what i think not what other people want me to think. You say Froch has fought bums ?? well what has Khan fought ??

How is he still tough and durable after a long layoff and 36 years old, you seen in the Brinkley fight he was totally shot and had nothing left. BTW Lacy destroyed Reid it was a one man beating.

You haven't seen Lacy vs Reid fight if you had you would know it was competitive for 4 rounds. Until Lacy hit Reid on the break and that badly effected Reid, the ref was biased as hell. That should of been 1 point taken away from Lacy instead he called it a knockdown. Hell at least Reid was competitive for 4 rounds, Earl got a beating for the entire fight.

I'd take Graham Earl when he fought Khan over Robin Reid when he fought Froch anyday.
REID WAS COMPLETELY SHOT!!!!!!! how many times do I have to say it.

You can say it until your blue in the face it doesn't matter to me, Reid was still a tough durable former world champion, at least Reid had been in there with World class opposition. The only World class opponent Earl fought was Katsidis if you even consider him World class because i don't. Katsidis is struggling with too many Mediocre fighters for my liking, just like in his last fight.

Against 10 bums, GREAT.

How many good opponent's has Ricky Burns beat ?? :)

Because he took 1 round of Lucian Bute, stop talking S*** and Bute is behind Calzaghe and Kessler so he's no world beater, lets put things into perspective. Scoring a knockdown looks better than winning a round I would say that for sure.

He took 2 rounds when i see if i remember right but whatever, he still lasted 12 rounds. And Sergey Tatevosyan has still been in there with World class opposition, and he still had never been stopped in his whole career when Froch fought him.

Bute isn't no World beater ?? what are you talking about ?? have you seen him fight ?? he handled Sakio Bika much easier than Calzaghe did. He has beaten some good opponent's in impressive fashion. Like Kabary Salem who knocked down Calzaghe and gave him 12 tough rounds, Bute is the only man to ever stop Salem. Bute is top 5 Super Middleweight in the world, he has good skills and he could beat any Super Middleweight out there except Kessler and Calzaghe.

Did I say it was not a flash knockdown.

You keep saying im Hatton hater because i say Hatton only floored Collazo with flash knockdown. So you are implying it yes.

But Katsidis was stunned afterwards.

He got up and lost his balance he was fine and then he went about giving Earl a beating, i went back yesterday and checked the footage again to make sure and he wasn't hurt. Just shocked because he wasn't expecting it and it came out of nowhere. After 15 seconds he was fine.

I'm not being funny etc ICB but after reflection that is the most ridicoulous comment you have ever said. "Khan beat him because Earl was not warmed up" OMG laugh Khan blasted Earl end of.

Do you know anything about boxing have you ever stepping into the ring ?? because i have and i can tell you right now, if you aren't warmed up your getting sparked out end of. Im not making excuses for Earl, Khan was much better than Earl end of and he showed his class. But Earl wasn't warmed up and he caught got cold, but it wouldn't of mattered anyway because Khan was just better.

It could not of been that much of a beating for it to last 5 full rounds and the ref to throw the towel out of the ring when Earl's trainer threw it in.

Couldn't of been that much of a beating ?? he was getting hit with about 40+ punches in every round by hard flush punches. You haven't got a clue, getting hit with 15 punches in the 1st round and getting stopped, is nowhere near even close to getting hit with over 100+ flushes punches over 5 rounds i thought that was pretty obvious.

Let me put it this way do you think Tommy Morrison took more damage from Michael Bentt getting stopped in 1st round, or do you think he took more damage getting one sided beating for 6 rounds against Lennox Lewis ??

ICB you really are one biased c*** for Froch and Khan is easily ranked ahead of him you say you'd take Froch's 4 over Khan's but Reid was totally SHOT and was just a name,

Umm no im just talking facts about each opposition sorry you can't handle it. But its a fact and you call me biased, well couldn't i say the same for you ??

Were'nt Kelly Pavlik hurt and floored by JT and came back up to win??

:lolhaha:

Sorry but that is ridiculous your comparing, Kelly Pavlik getting floored against World Middleweight champion who beat the likes of Bernard Hopkins. To a a feather fisted fighter like Willie Limond who has fought mostly fighters with losing records and can't even stop most of them and you call me biased ha.

Have you heard yourself Sergey tdfyuyuufyyfui or whatever his name was 26-7 and beaten nobody good and Robin Reid was shot totally and Tony Dodson had fought total bums.

Sergey Tatevosyan has been in there with World Class opposition he is very tough durable fighter. That had never been stopped. You say Dodson had beaten nothing but bums but who had Willie Limond and Steffy Bull beat that impresses you ??

Sergy had been beaten by everybody

He fell short of World class but he is still tough durable fighter, and at least he went the distance with World class opposition. Unlike Bull, Limond, Earl.

your achievement for Froch is knocking out a guy Bute could'nt.

And isn't that what your basing Khan's achievement on ?? a guy that Katsidis couldn't KO ??

Sergey Tatevosyan even went distance with hard hitting Howard Eastman and if you see his KO record i think your find its 42 wins, 35 KO's. Which means Sergey Tatevosyan is a very durable opponent.

Tony Dodson had fought total nobodys and Brian Magee was nothing special.

There better than Willie Limond and Steffy Bull :)

ICB also Froch is 30 and fought those opponents when Khan fought 28-1 fighters after just 13 fights so it took that long for Froch to mature as a fighter when look at Khan, he's doing that to those type fighters KO'ing world title contenders eg Earl etc in just one round at just 20 years of age.


Froch started at a late age so what ?? Khan has been getting more exposure because of the Olympics. Froch has stopped Former world champion and has also stopped a fighter that has gone 12 rounds with Lucian Bute, who is now the current IBF Super Middleweight champion ;)

Amir Kahn KO Earl in impressive fashion i never denied, but Earl fought Katsidis and got a bad beating. He was never in the fight except for a split second knock down. And apart from that looked out of his depth and Katsidis looked a class above Earl.

You just can't take Ice that Froch has fought bums and Amir is actually going places in boxing.

Ice can't take what ?? now your sounding childish, in your opinion Khan is going places. But i want to see him up against a world class opponent before i make any judgment and ditto with Froch. And haven't you heard that supposedly Froch is fighting Mikkel Kessler ?? so Froch is going places and he is also rated 6th Super Middleweight in the world by Ring Magazine ;)

Where as Khan is fighting an unknown Dutchman who has never had a fight outside of Denmark, oh yea and guess what ?? another feather fisted opponent that is surprising isn't it ??

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Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing

Ice can't take what ?? now your sounding childish, in your opinion Khan is going places. But i want to see him up against a world class opponent before i make any judgment and ditto with Froch. And haven't you heard that supposedly Froch is fighting Mikkel Kessler ?? so Froch is going places and he is also rated 6th Super Middleweight in the world by Ring Magazine ;)

Where as Khan is fighting an unknown Dutchman who has never had a fight outside of Denmark, oh yea and guess what ?? another feather fisted opponent that is surprising isn't it ??

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Let's look back at where Froch was a year or so ago. He'd put Tony Dodson down with a good body shot, and had repeatedly demonstrated that he had power, and was ranked in the top 10 SMW's in the world, and had held the British title for a few years. Jump to now, and he is ranked in the top 10 SMW's in the world, has neither moved up the rankings significantly, nor has he dropped significantly. The main development for him in 2008 has been that he has been promised an eliminator against Denis Inkin, and that simply because he's been hanging around the top 10 for so long. I don't think there'll be any way that come next monday night, Froch will be sad that 2007 is over with. He's had an uneventful 2007, winning two fights that he was a big favourite for, and has made a lot of comments about other fighters in the same division.

Now let's compare that with Amir Khan. A year ago he'd just finished a fairly disappointing fight with Drilzane where he'd suffered a flash knockdown, and although he dominated his heavier opponent, the failure to provide a KO had been a sore point. Now, one year on Khan has made two defences of his commonwealth title, scored 5 quick KO wins against varying opposition all with decent records on paper, and ending the year with a 72-second demolition of a guy who'd fought bravely for a world title earlier in the year. For me, I think that Khan's career is the one going places, whilst Froch seems to be an example of where a fighter can end up, if he never stops fighting gatekeepers and moves on to fight the champions.

Fact is, Khan is now in the picture to challenge for European honours next year, and is making steps forward in his career, whether you think he is being well-guided or not. Froch...well he needs a big 2008 to put a boot up his career's arse and get it back in motion.

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Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing

Ice can't take what ?? now your sounding childish, in your opinion Khan is going places. But i want to see him up against a world class opponent before i make any judgment and ditto with Froch. And haven't you heard that supposedly Froch is fighting Mikkel Kessler ?? so Froch is going places and he is also rated 6th Super Middleweight in the world by Ring Magazine ;)

Where as Khan is fighting an unknown Dutchman who has never had a fight outside of Denmark, oh yea and guess what ?? another feather fisted opponent that is surprising isn't it ??

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Let's look back at where Froch was a year or so ago. He'd put Tony Dodson down with a good body shot, and had repeatedly demonstrated that he had power, and was ranked in the top 10 SMW's in the world, and had held the British title for a few years. Jump to now, and he is ranked in the top 10 SMW's in the world, has neither moved up the rankings significantly, nor has he dropped significantly. The main development for him in 2008 has been that he has been promised an eliminator against Denis Inkin, and that simply because he's been hanging around the top 10 for so long. I don't think there'll be any way that come next monday night, Froch will be sad that 2007 is over with. He's had an uneventful 2007, winning two fights that he was a big favourite for, and has made a lot of comments about other fighters in the same division.

Now let's compare that with Amir Khan. A year ago he'd just finished a fairly disappointing fight with Drilzane where he'd suffered a flash knockdown, and although he dominated his heavier opponent, the failure to provide a KO had been a sore point. Now, one year on Khan has made two defences of his commonwealth title, scored 5 quick KO wins against varying opposition all with decent records on paper, and ending the year with a 72-second demolition of a guy who'd fought bravely for a world title earlier in the year. For me, I think that Khan's career is the one going places, whilst Froch seems to be an example of where a fighter can end up, if he never stops fighting gatekeepers and moves on to fight the champions.

Fact is, Khan is now in the picture to challenge for European honours next year, and is making steps forward in his career, whether you think he is being well-guided or not. Froch...well he needs a big 2008 to put a boot up his career's a*** and get it back in motion.

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I don't think Khan has been that impressive this year if im honest. His performance against Earl was great his other fights against Bull, Lawton, ETC to be honest i thought his opponent fought pathetic but i will give him credit, but his fight against Limond was not so impressive, although he showed heart. Getting knocked down from feather fisted fighter, and almost KO is not impressive to me.

Khan is making good progress but im not happy with him fighting Martin Kristjansen, IMO thats big step back and he is not making any progress at all with this fight whats your thoughts ??

As far as I'm concerned, going close to defeat is not necessarily such a bad thing, especially against a fighter of the nature of Limond, because not only did it allow him to demonstrate that he can overcome adversity, but it also gave him a boot up the backside to make him realise that it won't all be easy. As for the other opposition, maybe they were intimidated by the Khan machine, or maybe they froze on the big stage which comes with fighting Khan, but he beat them, all by stoppage, and that's ticking a lot of the boxes in my book.

As for Kristjansen, I think its one of those tactical fights that Warren tends to make to get his fighters to an end, a bit like Calzaghe v Manfredo. That one was to give Joe C profile in the states, this one v Kristjansen is made purely because Kristijansen is high up on the European rankings, and that beating him might push Khan into mandatory spot, or very close to one anyway.