Re: I Just A Heard Rumor That Andy Lee vs John Duddy Could Be Next
It's hard to look good against Eastman, he is very crafty. I thought it was a solid win by 2 rounds. Duddy didnt get credit for a knockdown because Eastman faked like he slipped. The referee was allowing all kinds of fouls low blows and rabbit shots from Eastman. Which Duddy returned...This ref was like an old school 50's style ref, I think he warned someone one time in the fight.
Re: I Just A Heard Rumor That Andy Lee vs John Duddy Could Be Next
That ref is known to be real leniant when Duddy's in the ring
Re: I Just A Heard Rumor That Andy Lee vs John Duddy Could Be Next
Personally I think it is a mistake in the Duddy camp to sign a fight with Pavlik just yet even if Duddy makes it past hid feb 2 opp.....
Re: I Just A Heard Rumor That Andy Lee vs John Duddy Could Be Next
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
Personally I think it is a mistake in the Duddy camp to sign a fight with Pavlik just yet even if Duddy makes it past hid feb 2 opp.....
Yeah I'm oin agreement, If i were his camp I'd delay it another few fights to see does Don Turner have any effect. And if he stills doesn't improve go for the pay day.
Re: I Just A Heard Rumor That Andy Lee vs John Duddy Could Be Next
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
Personally I think it is a mistake in the Duddy camp to sign a fight with Pavlik just yet even if Duddy makes it past hid feb 2 opp.....
Yeah I'm oin agreement, If i were his camp I'd delay it another few fights to see does Don Turner have any effect. And if he stills doesn't improve go for the pay day.
Exactly mate....Duddy is still a young guy and has plenty of time left to get a title shot....With his popularity it will alsways be a sensible fight.....
Problem is too many camps hear the words "World Title" and think they have to take the fight?.....Which is OK for a guy who is noone and has no fan base but if your guy looks as though he needs some work why chance it now?...many a fighter get ruined that way....
I remember a promising big HW named Michael Grant that was practically sent to his maker by fighting Lewis before his time was ready...
Re: I Just A Heard Rumor That Andy Lee vs John Duddy Could Be Next
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
Personally I think it is a mistake in the Duddy camp to sign a fight with Pavlik just yet even if Duddy makes it past hid feb 2 opp.....
Yeah I'm oin agreement, If i were his camp I'd delay it another few fights to see does Don Turner have any effect. And if he stills doesn't improve go for the pay day.
Exactly mate....Duddy is still a young guy and has plenty of time left to get a title shot....With his popularity it will alsways be a sensible fight.....
Problem is too many camps hear the words "World Title" and think they have to take the fight?.....Which is OK for a guy who is noone and has no fan base but if your guy looks as though he needs some work why chance it now?...many a fighter get ruined that way....
I remember a promising big HW named Michael Grant that was practically sent to his maker by fighting Lewis before his time was ready...
Good point Daxx...
See the case of Bernard Hopkins also, see how much he matured after his first Title shot. Expierience can do wonders, particularily for fighters like Duddy who don't have any particularily KO power. These fighters can do like Hopkins and compenasate by adding practised ringcraft, skill and guile to their repotoire instead.
Re: I Just A Heard Rumor That Andy Lee vs John Duddy Could Be Next
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn
Personally I think it is a mistake in the Duddy camp to sign a fight with Pavlik just yet even if Duddy makes it past hid feb 2 opp.....
Yeah I'm oin agreement, If i were his camp I'd delay it another few fights to see does Don Turner have any effect. And if he stills doesn't improve go for the pay day.
Exactly mate....Duddy is still a young guy and has plenty of time left to get a title shot....With his popularity it will alsways be a sensible fight.....
Problem is too many camps hear the words "World Title" and think they have to take the fight?.....Which is OK for a guy who is noone and has no fan base but if your guy looks as though he needs some work why chance it now?...many a fighter get ruined that way....
I remember a promising big HW named Michael Grant that was practically sent to his maker by fighting Lewis before his time was ready...
Good point Daxx...
See the case of Bernard Hopkins also, see how much he matured after his first Title shot. Expierience can do wonders, particularily for fighters like Duddy who don't have any particularily KO power. These fighters can do like Hopkins and compenasate by adding practised ringcraft, skill and guile to their repotoire instead.
Absolutly....Hopkins is an excellent example....That is another reason I think it is important for fighters coming up to face veteren fighters on the way out or not quite their best anymore...Yes you expect the up and comer to win and no it is not because it is an easy win with a name attached...But they learn things in those fights..even if just little things,,,things that they will only learn from facing seasoned guys that will either benifit them in the future ir things they will face once at the elite level....EG- guys who know how to shoulder roll to an art or maximize the inside game by throwing little shots that not effective but take some starch out....Stuff that can be taught in the gym but not fully understood until having to deal with it
Re: I Just A Heard Rumor That Andy Lee vs John Duddy Could Be Next
You get another CC for that.
It is almost as if the veterans purpose in those fights is to pass on the knowledge and expierience he has compiled in his career whilst providing an acid test for the prospects own skills.
Should the prospect be victorious he will have proved his skill, worked on it a bit and gained some new ideas and a bit of an education from the veteran. It's what ensures the continuation of quality boxing.
Re: I Just A Heard Rumor That Andy Lee vs John Duddy Could Be Next
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
You get another CC for that.
It is almost as if the veterans purpose in those fights is to pass on the knowledge and expierience he has compiled in his career whilst providing an acid test for the prospects own skills.
Should the prospect be victorious he will have proved his skill, worked on it a bit and gained some new ideas and a bit of an education from the veteran. It's what ensures the continuation of quality boxing.
Exactly mate CC#359...Glad you understand the importance of it...some guys just refuse to realize that there is a learning process and some fights need be taken for reasons more then a W...This is why we have the term "Gatekeepers" the guys who will test the young guy with that veteran experience and teach the kid a thing or two in the process
Re: I Just A Heard Rumor That Andy Lee vs John Duddy Could Be Next
Yeah I understand. A lot of fans think that fighters just arrive with skill, not realisning it has to be built up, perfected and honed before a title challenge
Re: I Just A Heard Rumor That Andy Lee vs John Duddy Could Be Next
Quote:
Originally Posted by superheavyrhun
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Campas is a gate keeper and up and coming prospects fight him if you get past him then your good to move on to the next level.
But in my opinion Duddy didn't get past Campas, he got a gift decision plus you have to realize after his fight with Duddy he lost to 19-1 fighter and then struggled against journeyman Norberto Bravo. So that just shows you what kind of level Campas was at in that time in his career.
Sometimes as fans we put too much emphasis when figthers struggle in certain fights. I brougth this up during the Cintron thread where you were saying cause he struggled in his last fight he would loose to Williams.
I never thought Cintron would beat Williams in the first place even before his fight with Jesse Feliciano.
Going on that performance. ODLH struggled with John John bad early in his career but still ODLH went on to beat other fighters who were much better then John John. Duddy struggled with Campas but learned that he can take some shots and dig down and fight on till the end.
Molina was former IBF Superfeatherweight champion and made 8 defense's he also made 3 defense's earlier in his career but lost twice to Tony Lopez. Molina moved up to Lightweight and did give Oscar De La Hoya all he could handle but the difference is, Molina was still in his peak plus he had not lost in almost 5 years. Oscar De La Hoya only had 16 pro fights at the time so he dealt with former world champion who hadn't lost in 5 years pretty good if you ask me. Thats totally different to Duddy struggling with an old shot Campas, plus Oscar De La Hoya had shown even before Molina fight that he had the skills to be elite Duddy never has.
Just to add further to some of the points you've made here, I disagree that Duddy got a gift decision.  I had Duddy edging it, but I can't see how someone could have the fighters more than a round or two away from each other. It was generous on points, but I felt that the judges did go the right way, although perhaps by a little much.  We can argue people who got losses when they deserved to win all night, but as Mick said it's done with.
As for struggling with certain fighters, even the p4p legends will have an off night against an awkward fighter, or come in against a guy where the styles don't gel.  I think Cintron took a whole lot more stick about the Feliciano fight than some more popular fighters would take in similar situations.
Fact is Duddy has got past two experienced vets in the past 12 months or so with world level experience, and whilst the ODLH analogy doesn't work, Duddy's record compares favourably with pretty much every middleweight pushing for world status at the moment, and as for a fight with Lee, I think he'd be too much even for Lee's slick style.
Duddy has fought two shot fighters who were only ever goodish even there prime, and didn't look impressive in either, you are right everyone does have an off night but. Most of the legends or elite fighters have shown they have the skills to beat elite fighters before the *Off Night* when has Duddy ever shown he can compete at elite level ??
Re: I Just A Heard Rumor That Andy Lee vs John Duddy Could Be Next
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by superheavyrhun
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Campas is a gate keeper and up and coming prospects fight him if you get past him then your good to move on to the next level.
But in my opinion Duddy didn't get past Campas, he got a gift decision plus you have to realize after his fight with Duddy he lost to 19-1 fighter and then struggled against journeyman Norberto Bravo. So that just shows you what kind of level Campas was at in that time in his career.
Sometimes as fans we put too much emphasis when figthers struggle in certain fights. I brougth this up during the Cintron thread where you were saying cause he struggled in his last fight he would loose to Williams.
I never thought Cintron would beat Williams in the first place even before his fight with Jesse Feliciano.
Going on that performance. ODLH struggled with John John bad early in his career but still ODLH went on to beat other fighters who were much better then John John. Duddy struggled with Campas but learned that he can take some shots and dig down and fight on till the end.
Molina was former IBF Superfeatherweight champion and made 8 defense's he also made 3 defense's earlier in his career but lost twice to Tony Lopez. Molina moved up to Lightweight and did give Oscar De La Hoya all he could handle but the difference is, Molina was still in his peak plus he had not lost in almost 5 years. Oscar De La Hoya only had 16 pro fights at the time so he dealt with former world champion who hadn't lost in 5 years pretty good if you ask me. Thats totally different to Duddy struggling with an old shot Campas, plus Oscar De La Hoya had shown even before Molina fight that he had the skills to be elite Duddy never has.
Just to add further to some of the points you've made here, I disagree that Duddy got a gift decision. I had Duddy edging it, but I can't see how someone could have the fighters more than a round or two away from each other. It was generous on points, but I felt that the judges did go the right way, although perhaps by a little much. We can argue people who got losses when they deserved to win all night, but as Mick said it's done with.
As for struggling with certain fighters, even the p4p legends will have an off night against an awkward fighter, or come in against a guy where the styles don't gel. I think Cintron took a whole lot more stick about the Feliciano fight than some more popular fighters would take in similar situations.
Fact is Duddy has got past two experienced vets in the past 12 months or so with world level experience, and whilst the ODLH analogy doesn't work, Duddy's record compares favourably with pretty much every middleweight pushing for world status at the moment, and as for a fight with Lee, I think he'd be too much even for Lee's slick style.
Duddy has fought two shot fighters who were only ever goodish even there prime, and didn't look impressive in either, you are right everyone does have an off night but. Most of the legends or elite fighters have shown they have the skills to beat elite fighters before the *Off Night* when has Duddy ever shown he can compete at elite level ??
At which point has anyone on this thread ever said that John Duddy is currently at an elite level? Think son, think. He's not at an elite level, he's still developing and maturing as a fighter, and improving as a boxer.
Nobody is making a direct comparison between John Duddy and an elite fighter or a legend. The thing about fighting gatekeepers as a young developing boxer is that you're not looking for an impeccable domination, you want the guy to get tested and come out ahead after a tough battle, which Duddy has both times, at least in the eyes of the judges and a proportion of fans.
Re: I Just A Heard Rumor That Andy Lee vs John Duddy Could Be Next
Dead right Superheavy!
Happy Christmas my man and you too Ice, It's on!
Re: I Just A Heard Rumor That Andy Lee vs John Duddy Could Be Next
Quote:
Originally Posted by superheavyrhun
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Quote:
Originally Posted by superheavyrhun
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Campas is a gate keeper and up and coming prospects fight him if you get past him then your good to move on to the next level.
But in my opinion Duddy didn't get past Campas, he got a gift decision plus you have to realize after his fight with Duddy he lost to 19-1 fighter and then struggled against journeyman Norberto Bravo. So that just shows you what kind of level Campas was at in that time in his career.
Sometimes as fans we put too much emphasis when figthers struggle in certain fights. I brougth this up during the Cintron thread where you were saying cause he struggled in his last fight he would loose to Williams.
I never thought Cintron would beat Williams in the first place even before his fight with Jesse Feliciano.
Going on that performance. ODLH struggled with John John bad early in his career but still ODLH went on to beat other fighters who were much better then John John. Duddy struggled with Campas but learned that he can take some shots and dig down and fight on till the end.
Molina was former IBF Superfeatherweight champion and made 8 defense's he also made 3 defense's earlier in his career but lost twice to Tony Lopez. Molina moved up to Lightweight and did give Oscar De La Hoya all he could handle but the difference is, Molina was still in his peak plus he had not lost in almost 5 years. Oscar De La Hoya only had 16 pro fights at the time so he dealt with former world champion who hadn't lost in 5 years pretty good if you ask me. Thats totally different to Duddy struggling with an old shot Campas, plus Oscar De La Hoya had shown even before Molina fight that he had the skills to be elite Duddy never has.
Just to add further to some of the points you've made here, I disagree that Duddy got a gift decision. I had Duddy edging it, but I can't see how someone could have the fighters more than a round or two away from each other. It was generous on points, but I felt that the judges did go the right way, although perhaps by a little much. We can argue people who got losses when they deserved to win all night, but as Mick said it's done with.
As for struggling with certain fighters, even the p4p legends will have an off night against an awkward fighter, or come in against a guy where the styles don't gel. I think Cintron took a whole lot more stick about the Feliciano fight than some more popular fighters would take in similar situations.
Fact is Duddy has got past two experienced vets in the past 12 months or so with world level experience, and whilst the ODLH analogy doesn't work, Duddy's record compares favourably with pretty much every middleweight pushing for world status at the moment, and as for a fight with Lee, I think he'd be too much even for Lee's slick style.
Duddy has fought two shot fighters who were only ever goodish even there prime, and didn't look impressive in either, you are right everyone does have an off night but. Most of the legends or elite fighters have shown they have the skills to beat elite fighters before the *Off Night* when has Duddy ever shown he can compete at elite level ??
At which point has anyone on this thread ever said that John Duddy is currently at an elite level? Think son, think. He's not at an elite level, he's still developing and maturing as a fighter, and improving as a boxer.
Nobody is making a direct comparison between John Duddy and an elite fighter or a legend. The thing about fighting gatekeepers as a young developing boxer is that you're not looking for an impeccable domination, you want the guy to get tested and come out ahead after a tough battle, which Duddy has both times, at least in the eyes of the judges and a proportion of fans.
At which point has anyone on this thread ever said that John Duddy is currently at an elite level? Think son, think. He's not at an elite level, he's still developing and maturing as a fighter, and improving as a boxer.
Think son think ?? i am thinking clearly this was debate between me and Mick, when he compared Oscar De La Hoya struggling with John John Molina to Duddy struggling with Campas. And i was pointing out the major differences between those fights.
