Re: How would Pavlik-Abraham go
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
I don't know if Pavlik's taken a lot of punishment yet. He was brought along pretty slow, a lot of his fights were just total dominations. He's taken some punches versus McKart, forgot his name for the moment but the Mexican dude he fought before Miranda on HBO, Miranda, and Taylor but its not like he's taken an obscene amount of punishment.
And he's not quick but he's not the slowest guy I've ever seen and he's got a nice jab and seems to have good timing.
One thing I wonder about Pavlik is could he fight going backwards. But somebody would have to make him go backwards and they'd take some heavy shots on the way in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
I don't know if Pavlik's taken a lot of punishment yet. He was brought along pretty slow, a lot of his fights were just total dominations. He's taken some punches versus McKart, forgot his name for the moment but the Mexican dude he fought before Miranda on HBO, Miranda, and Taylor but its not like he's taken an obscene amount of punishment.
Kelly Pavlik took plenty of flush punches from good punchers like Jose Luis Zertuche, Edison Miranda Fulgencio Zuniga. And why does Pavlik have to take a obscene amount of punishment ?? Pavlik has already proved he can take big shots and come back he has been hit with flush punches against big punchers, he has been knocked down, he has been in toe to toe wars. And he has shown he can take whatever his opponent's got and comeback in a big way. Pavlik reminds me of Miguel Cotto in the chin department, both of there chins can be dented but not cracked.
As for this match up Pavlik would destroy Abraham in 7 rounds, Abraham was lucky to win against Miranda. Miranda just basically threw the fight away on points with foul play, although to Abraham's credit he did show his toughness in that fight because he did have a broken jaw, but i still can't see Abraham making it past the 7th round.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
One thing I wonder about Pavlik is could he fight going backwards. But somebody would have to make him go backwards and they'd take some heavy shots on the way in.
Well you will be waiting along time for that to happen, because there is not one single boxer at Middleweight that can force Pavlik on the back foot, in fact even going back in history i find it hard for any of the past Middleweight greats to force Pavlik on the back foot.
Re: How would Pavlik-Abraham go
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
I don't know if Pavlik's taken a lot of punishment yet. He was brought along pretty slow, a lot of his fights were just total dominations. He's taken some punches versus McKart, forgot his name for the moment but the Mexican dude he fought before Miranda on HBO, Miranda, and Taylor but its not like he's taken an obscene amount of punishment.
And he's not quick but he's not the slowest guy I've ever seen and he's got a nice jab and seems to have good timing.
One thing I wonder about Pavlik is could he fight going backwards. But somebody would have to make him go backwards and they'd take some heavy shots on the way in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
I don't know if Pavlik's taken a lot of punishment yet. He was brought along pretty slow, a lot of his fights were just total dominations. He's taken some punches versus McKart, forgot his name for the moment but the Mexican dude he fought before Miranda on HBO, Miranda, and Taylor but its not like he's taken an obscene amount of punishment.
Kelly Pavlik took plenty of flush punches from good punchers like Jose Luis Zertuche, Edison Miranda Fulgencio Zuniga. And why does Pavlik have to take a obscene amount of punishment ?? Pavlik has already proved he can take big shots and come back he has been hit with flush punches against big punchers, he has been knocked down, he has been in toe to toe wars. And he has shown he can take whatever his opponent's got and comeback in a big way. Pavlik reminds me of Miguel Cotto in the chin department, both of there chins can be dented but not cracked.
As for this match up Pavlik would destroy Abraham in 7 rounds, Abraham was lucky to win against Miranda. Miranda just basically threw the fight away on points with foul play, although to Abraham's credit he did show his toughness in that fight because he did have a broken jaw, but i still can't see Abraham making it past the 7th round.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
One thing I wonder about Pavlik is could he fight going backwards. But somebody would have to make him go backwards and they'd take some heavy shots on the way in.
Well you will be waiting along time for that to happen, because there is not one single boxer at Middleweight that can force Pavlik on the back foot, in fact even going back in history i find it hard for any of the past Middleweight greats to force Pavlik on the back foot.
I have no idea what you're talking about here? I wasn't saying it was a bad thing that he hasn't taken an obscene amount of punishment, seems pretty obvious that's a good thing.
And we don't know for sure if there's no middle that could put him in the back foot, probably not, but that's just speculation and you're opinion, not fact. As for all time, sure there's some guys who could do it, Hagler is the one that comes to mind first.
Re: How would Pavlik-Abraham go
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
I don't know if Pavlik's taken a lot of punishment yet. He was brought along pretty slow, a lot of his fights were just total dominations. He's taken some punches versus McKart, forgot his name for the moment but the Mexican dude he fought before Miranda on HBO, Miranda, and Taylor but its not like he's taken an obscene amount of punishment.
And he's not quick but he's not the slowest guy I've ever seen and he's got a nice jab and seems to have good timing.
One thing I wonder about Pavlik is could he fight going backwards. But somebody would have to make him go backwards and they'd take some heavy shots on the way in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
I don't know if Pavlik's taken a lot of punishment yet. He was brought along pretty slow, a lot of his fights were just total dominations. He's taken some punches versus McKart, forgot his name for the moment but the Mexican dude he fought before Miranda on HBO, Miranda, and Taylor but its not like he's taken an obscene amount of punishment.
Kelly Pavlik took plenty of flush punches from good punchers like Jose Luis Zertuche, Edison Miranda Fulgencio Zuniga. And why does Pavlik have to take a obscene amount of punishment ?? Pavlik has already proved he can take big shots and come back he has been hit with flush punches against big punchers, he has been knocked down, he has been in toe to toe wars. And he has shown he can take whatever his opponent's got and comeback in a big way. Pavlik reminds me of Miguel Cotto in the chin department, both of there chins can be dented but not cracked.
As for this match up Pavlik would destroy Abraham in 7 rounds, Abraham was lucky to win against Miranda. Miranda just basically threw the fight away on points with foul play, although to Abraham's credit he did show his toughness in that fight because he did have a broken jaw, but i still can't see Abraham making it past the 7th round.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
One thing I wonder about Pavlik is could he fight going backwards. But somebody would have to make him go backwards and they'd take some heavy shots on the way in.
Well you will be waiting along time for that to happen, because there is not one single boxer at Middleweight that can force Pavlik on the back foot, in fact even going back in history i find it hard for any of the past Middleweight greats to force Pavlik on the back foot.
I have no idea what you're talking about here? I wasn't saying it was a bad thing that he hasn't taken an obscene amount of punishment, seems pretty obvious that's a good thing.
And we don't know for sure if there's no middle that could put him in the back foot, probably not, but that's just speculation and you're opinion, not fact. As for all time, sure there's some guys who could do it, Hagler is the one that comes to mind first.
but its not like he's taken an obscene amount of punishment.
Im putting this in bold because i thought you was implying that Pavlik hasn't took many hard shots.
No its a fact at the moment that none of the top Middleweights can put Pavlik on the back foot, name me one Middleweight at the moment that has a chance of putting Pavlik on the back foot ?? Hagler was something else he would put any Middleweight on the back foot. But if you actually go back in history you won't mind many that could put Pavlik on the back foot.
Re: How would Pavlik-Abraham go
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
I don't know if Pavlik's taken a lot of punishment yet. He was brought along pretty slow, a lot of his fights were just total dominations. He's taken some punches versus McKart, forgot his name for the moment but the Mexican dude he fought before Miranda on HBO, Miranda, and Taylor but its not like he's taken an obscene amount of punishment.
And he's not quick but he's not the slowest guy I've ever seen and he's got a nice jab and seems to have good timing.
One thing I wonder about Pavlik is could he fight going backwards. But somebody would have to make him go backwards and they'd take some heavy shots on the way in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
I don't know if Pavlik's taken a lot of punishment yet. He was brought along pretty slow, a lot of his fights were just total dominations. He's taken some punches versus McKart, forgot his name for the moment but the Mexican dude he fought before Miranda on HBO, Miranda, and Taylor but its not like he's taken an obscene amount of punishment.
Kelly Pavlik took plenty of flush punches from good punchers like Jose Luis Zertuche, Edison Miranda Fulgencio Zuniga. And why does Pavlik have to take a obscene amount of punishment ?? Pavlik has already proved he can take big shots and come back he has been hit with flush punches against big punchers, he has been knocked down, he has been in toe to toe wars. And he has shown he can take whatever his opponent's got and comeback in a big way. Pavlik reminds me of Miguel Cotto in the chin department, both of there chins can be dented but not cracked.
As for this match up Pavlik would destroy Abraham in 7 rounds, Abraham was lucky to win against Miranda. Miranda just basically threw the fight away on points with foul play, although to Abraham's credit he did show his toughness in that fight because he did have a broken jaw, but i still can't see Abraham making it past the 7th round.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
One thing I wonder about Pavlik is could he fight going backwards. But somebody would have to make him go backwards and they'd take some heavy shots on the way in.
Well you will be waiting along time for that to happen, because there is not one single boxer at Middleweight that can force Pavlik on the back foot, in fact even going back in history i find it hard for any of the past Middleweight greats to force Pavlik on the back foot.
I have no idea what you're talking about here? I wasn't saying it was a bad thing that he hasn't taken an obscene amount of punishment, seems pretty obvious that's a good thing.
And we don't know for sure if there's no middle that could put him in the back foot, probably not, but that's just speculation and you're opinion, not fact. As for all time, sure there's some guys who could do it, Hagler is the one that comes to mind first.
but its not like he's taken an obscene amount of punishment.
Im putting this in bold because i thought you was implying that Pavlik hasn't took many hard shots.
No its a fact at the moment that none of the top Middleweights can put Pavlik on the back foot. Hagler was something else he would put any Middleweight on the back foot. But if you actually go back in history you won't mind many that could put Pavlik on the back foot.
I agree he's taken some good shots, I was just responding to the original poster who says he takes a lot of punishment and I was saying that I don't think he's taken a ridiculous amount of shots yet because a lot of his early fights were blowouts.
As for the back foot stuff I still think its more speculation, now I don't have any idea who will even try to do it. Out of the "top" middles I'm not sure if any would even try, Abraham wouldn't, Taylor wouldn't, not sure who else is really a top middle. At some point though, maybe at 168, somebody will try most likely through a combo of good chin/head movement, whatever and I'd be interested to see how well he could fight like that.
Re: How would Pavlik-Abraham go
It's a fight that must happen in 2008! Could go either way but i lean toward Pavlik in an awesome match up.
Re: How would Pavlik-Abraham go
Pavlik is slightly less unproven than Abraham and 3-1/2 inches taller with more power. But Pavlik is right there to get hit so who knows. Pavlik would be a 5-3 favorite.
Re: How would Pavlik-Abraham go
In a chat not too long ago Dan Rafael said he'd slightly favor Abraham in that match-up. Not that that means a hill of beans, but just FYI.
Personally, I'd favor Pavlik. Miranda basically beat the crap out of Abraham but lost on stupid point deductions...we all saw what Pavlik did to Miranda.
Re: How would Pavlik-Abraham go
The more I think about it, the more I think this fight would end very badly for Abraham.
The real question should be, after Pavlik breaks the newly inserted titanium chin he has, what are they gonna put in next?
Re: How would Pavlik-Abraham go
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx730NY
The more I think about it, the more I think this fight would end very badly for Abraham.
The real question should be, after Pavlik breaks the newly inserted titanium chin he has, what are they gonna put in next?
;D ;D
I'd favour Pavlik via stoppage. I can see Abraham,with his Wink-lite defence trying to stand there and block punches on his arms,a few getting through ,skaen,hurt,then stopped. I think he would wobble Kelly though,he has really good handspeed and good power too. I just feel he takes too long getting his punches off,usually waiting for the other guy to punch first,which would be dangerous v Pavlik.
The only guys I see giving Kelly problems are guys with lateral movement and a good chin(Calzaghe is the only fighter I can think of) because he seems so dam flat footed(which I'm guessing allows him to generate power in all his shots). Either that or someone with power and good countering skills like Kessler. If yu're standing in front of him,you're most likely going to get hammered.
Re: How would Pavlik-Abraham go
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx730NY
The more I think about it, the more I think this fight would end very badly for Abraham.
The real question should be, after Pavlik breaks the newly inserted titanium chin he has, what are they gonna put in next?
;D ;D
I'd favour Pavlik via stoppage. I can see Abraham,with his Wink-lite defence trying to stand there and block punches on his arms,a few getting through ,skaen,hurt,then stopped. I think he would wobble Kelly though,he has really good handspeed and good power too. I just feel he takes too long getting his punches off,usually waiting for the other guy to punch first,which would be dangerous v Pavlik.
The only guys I see giving Kelly problems are guys with lateral movement and a good chin(Calzaghe is the only fighter I can think of) because he seems so dam flat footed(which I'm guessing allows him to generate power in all his shots). Either that or someone with power and good countering skills like Kessler. If yu're standing in front of him,you're most likely going to get hammered.
I agree. I think Pavlik right now is the p4p biggest puncher in the sport. A bit slow though. What makes him so difficult is that he leaves the jab in your face after he throws it and it makes the right hand like a heat seeking missile. I couldn't figure out at first how that slow right could land with such consistency but thats what it is.
A lot of guys can't really do that though. His massive frame is what makes it possible for him to get away with doing that without getting countered to the point where he has to stop doing it.
Re: How would Pavlik-Abraham go
No doubt in my mind that Pavlik knocks out the smurf early.
Smurf has a pretty good defense and a pretty tough beard but I can still see him getting caught, dropped and put to sleep. Kelly has a very real eraser and has been knocking out fighters who had never even been on the canvas before.
Re: How would Pavlik-Abraham go
Dan Rafael, who in my opinion is the best boxing journalist today, picks Abraham in this situation.
I have never seen Abraham fight, but I cant imagine anyone beating Pavlik at Middle.
Re: How would Pavlik-Abraham go
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx730NY
The more I think about it, the more I think this fight would end very badly for Abraham.
The real question should be, after Pavlik breaks the newly inserted titanium chin he has, what are they gonna put in next?
;D ;D
I'd favour Pavlik via stoppage. I can see Abraham,with his Wink-lite defence trying to stand there and block punches on his arms,a few getting through ,skaen,hurt,then stopped. I think he would wobble Kelly though,he has really good handspeed and good power too. I just feel he takes too long getting his punches off,usually waiting for the other guy to punch first,which would be dangerous v Pavlik.
The only guys I see giving Kelly problems are guys with lateral movement and a good chin(Calzaghe is the only fighter I can think of) because he seems so dam flat footed(which I'm guessing allows him to generate power in all his shots). Either that or someone with power and good countering skills like Kessler. If yu're standing in front of him,you're most likely going to get hammered.
CC. Hopkins would give him problems, too, but I think Pavlik will eventually win belts at 168, and 175. Kess would give him trouble, too. That fight would be pretty much a pickem.
Re: How would Pavlik-Abraham go
It would be an exciting matchupo as a Knockout would be guaranteed.
Re: How would Pavlik-Abraham go
Quote:
Originally Posted by RozzySean
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx730NY
The more I think about it, the more I think this fight would end very badly for Abraham.
The real question should be, after Pavlik breaks the newly inserted titanium chin he has, what are they gonna put in next?
;D ;D
I'd favour Pavlik via stoppage. I can see Abraham,with his Wink-lite defence trying to stand there and block punches on his arms,a few getting through ,skaen,hurt,then stopped. I think he would wobble Kelly though,he has really good handspeed and good power too. I just feel he takes too long getting his punches off,usually waiting for the other guy to punch first,which would be dangerous v Pavlik.
The only guys I see giving Kelly problems are guys with lateral movement and a good chin(Calzaghe is the only fighter I can think of) because he seems so dam flat footed(which I'm guessing allows him to generate power in all his shots). Either that or someone with power and good countering skills like Kessler. If yu're standing in front of him,you're most likely going to get hammered.
CC. Hopkins would give him problems, too, but I think Pavlik will eventually win belts at 168, and 175. Kess would give him trouble, too. That fight would be pretty much a pickem.
CC back bro. Kess Pavlik would be awesome. Can Kelly take his power up to 168??
