Calzaghe-Hopkins and the UK fighting Legacy

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

I dont like Warren because he hides his fighters so he can keep making money off them rather then allowing them to build a real legacy
And it shows in the Calzaghe/Kessler fights numbers, a 2.8 share is pathetic for a unification bout
But that sillyness of the negotiations played well in England,and it was all Frank.I mean come on,he tried to get them to sign on to the fight by offering the European TV rights,like that was a real offer.
The sillyness of the stupid Christmas ad is typical Warren crap,its worked before,but come on,does anybody think your going to strong arm a guy who did 4 years in Graterford with a stupid ad in the Guardian?
But everyone in the UK views these little bouts of ridiculousness on Warrens part,as a sign that theyre serious about wanting this fight
Theyve been offered 3 million more then Joe said he wanted to do the fight,now sign on the dotted line,and spare us the silly ads

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Bullshit... you name one fight that didn't come off because of Warren? Hopkins? thats signed and sealed hopkins alone pulled out of that... Glen Johnson? ok no a big talent, but a name, and great win over him in style could of forced america to call for a big fight, Joe pulled out of that 3 times with injury... Warren done his job and got johnson for him THREE times, almost a 4th too if the kessler fight wasn't going to come off... Warren got him Lacy twice...

Would any of his wins of been moe impressive in the us? Any great fighter would tell you, when you step in that ring, and that bell goes, they all feel all alone, don't matter shit what country they are in.

Didn;t Roy Recently say he viewed calzaghe as to big a threat back then, that it was small a reward for beating him? i seen sumin brief about it, think daxx posted it? maybe u can help me out here daxx?

As far as i can see, there is little more Warren could of done to make Calzaghe any bigger than he is now... untill Lacy and kessler came along, it was basicaly Hopkins & Roy, and he made them both more than substantial offers.

For whatever reason Calzaghe hasn't fought very many top fighters. Maybe its his handlers fault, maybe everyone is terrified of him or maybe the money wasn't there or maybe he didn't want to leave Europe to fight, one can only guess. It's unfortunate that his card is so lacking because now that he has the name recognition he will have the chance to fight several of the names he needs on his card to be considered an alltime great. The problem is at 35 years old he very well may be past his prime physically and not capable of displaying his full talents for more than a couple more fights. I hope he takes this chance and takes on all comers before he is too old not to retire.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

I dont like Warren because he hides his fighters so he can keep making money off them rather then allowing them to build a real legacy
And it shows in the Calzaghe/Kessler fights numbers, a 2.8 share is pathetic for a unification bout
But that sillyness of the negotiations played well in England,and it was all Frank.I mean come on,he tried to get them to sign on to the fight by offering the European TV rights,like that was a real offer.
The sillyness of the stupid Christmas ad is typical Warren crap,its worked before,but come on,does anybody think your going to strong arm a guy who did 4 years in Graterford with a stupid ad in the Guardian?
But everyone in the UK views these little bouts of ridiculousness on Warrens part,as a sign that theyre serious about wanting this fight
Theyve been offered 3 million more then Joe said he wanted to do the fight,now sign on the dotted line,and spare us the silly ads

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You don't seem to realise those press release thingys are posted on promoters sites then picked up by all the other boxing sites on the net. They're for a global boxing audience not specifically aimed at the UK.. So I don't know why you keep referring to "everyone in the UK" or "UK fans?"

This isn't about USA vs UK. NO-one in the UK apart from the hardest of the hardcore boxing fan has ever heard of Bernard Hopkins let alone seen him fight.

Judging by this site alone, there's plenty of Brits that would root for Hopkins like plenty of Americans would root for Calzaghe.

Your gist of the Warren "lies" situation is - You don't believe Calzaghe's mob want the fight but are pretending they do by releasing lies to the press, right? Maybe you are right, but you'll look a right proper MUPPET if the fight is signed ;)

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Originally Posted by Rob Lewis

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

I dont like Warren because he hides his fighters so he can keep making money off them rather then allowing them to build a real legacy
And it shows in the Calzaghe/Kessler fights numbers, a 2.8 share is pathetic for a unification bout
But that sillyness of the negotiations played well in England,and it was all Frank.I mean come on,he tried to get them to sign on to the fight by offering the European TV rights,like that was a real offer.
The sillyness of the stupid Christmas ad is typical Warren crap,its worked before,but come on,does anybody think your going to strong arm a guy who did 4 years in Graterford with a stupid ad in the Guardian?
But everyone in the UK views these little bouts of ridiculousness on Warrens part,as a sign that theyre serious about wanting this fight
Theyve been offered 3 million more then Joe said he wanted to do the fight,now sign on the dotted line,and spare us the silly ads

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Bullshit... you name one fight that didn't come off because of Warren? Hopkins? thats signed and sealed hopkins alone pulled out of that... Glen Johnson? ok no a big talent, but a name, and great win over him in style could of forced america to call for a big fight, Joe pulled out of that 3 times with injury... Warren done his job and got johnson for him THREE times, almost a 4th too if the kessler fight wasn't going to come off... Warren got him Lacy twice...

Would any of his wins of been moe impressive in the us? Any great fighter would tell you, when you step in that ring, and that bell goes, they all feel all alone, don't matter S*** what country they are in.

Didn;t Roy Recently say he viewed calzaghe as to big a threat back then, that it was small a reward for beating him? i seen sumin brief about it, think daxx posted it? maybe u can help me out here daxx?

As far as i can see, there is little more Warren could of done to make Calzaghe any bigger than he is now... untill Lacy and kessler came along, it was basicaly Hopkins & Roy, and he made them both more than substantial offers.

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No,actually he didnt
What he offered was chump change,and with a ton of restrictions,where the fights going to be,who gets the TV rights,etc,etc
All for a fighter who can only pull a 2.8 share in a unification bout for free in the states
Bullshit indeed,but your the one spewing it

See I told you Fenster,everyone knows that Hopkins wanted the record for title defenses at middleweight
So it would have taken a fortune to get him to vacate
But Frank floats this little trial balloon,and back dates it no less,and heres somebody sucking at that teat.
I told you,Brit fans fall for his b-s
Same old song and dance,"He made an offer"
But they could make more in the states
"It was a great offer"
They could both make more in the states
Shut up you

Some points here.

Hopkins agreed to fight Calzaghe in front of a bunch of people including the then head of Showtime then changed his mind the next day.

Calzaghe fought a dozen times in England against English opposition before he fought for a title. No comfort zone there.

Rather than Calzaghe-Hopkins affirming Joe as a legitimate champion, the fight will actually show a huge gulf between Calzaghe and Hopkins who will lose badly. Afterwards Calzaghe haters will say Hopkins was 43, Calzaghe wouldn't have beaten him in his prime etc. etc.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

See I told you Fenster,everyone knows that Hopkins wanted the record for title defenses at middleweight
So it would have taken a fortune to get him to vacate
But Frank floats this little trial balloon,and back dates it no less,and heres somebody sucking at that teat.
I told you,Brit fans fall for his b-s
Same old song and dance,"He made an offer"
But they could make more in the states
"It was a great offer"
They could both make more in the states
Shut up you

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Why do you keep saying "Brit fans" "UK fans" -- Shouldn't you be saying "BOXING fans" or "CALZAGHE fans" - at the very least?

I take it you're refering to Hopkins doubling the 3 to 6 million offer? (how many times ::**)

Jay Larkin said this not Frank Warren..

..."A teleconference was set up in my office in New York for July 30th, 2002, and on the call was myself, Don King who was in the room, Frank Warren and Bernard Hopkins' lawyer, Arnold Joseph. Along with Arnold was a woman named Linda Carter, who was there on behalf of Bernard. We asked Arnold if Bernard wanted to fight Joe Calzaghe and we asked him how much money would he want if he did. The response we got was $3million and the fight would have to take place in the United States. After a little scratching of the head, we said 'Okay, done.' Frank Warren agreed on the spot, Don King agreed and we agreed so as far as we were concerned all parties were singing off the one hymm sheet. Arnold excused himself with Linda and I can only assume it was to call Bernard. Either that day or the next day, they came with a new demand: $6million, dobule the sum that had been agreed, the deal blew up.....he had then and still has no desire to fight Joe Calzaghe, that much is pretty clear."


Let me guess Jay Larkin is lying, right? ;)

You mean the recently canned Jay Larkin,who didnt work for either Joes or Bernards production team?
You mean that unemployed Jay Larkin right?
Or is there another one out there
Gullible as the day is long you lot are
Let me clue you in,Calzaghe's stateside cable company is HBO
Bernard turned down a multi fight deal with Showtime right after the Trinidad fight
So how,exactly,would the head of Showtime boxing be in any position to have had either of them in a room agreeing to a fight.Especially in conjunction with a promoter Bernard doesnt use unless he has to,which he would have had no reason to do in this case.
No please,this ought to be rich
I mean other then the wrong network and the wrong promoter,the stories totally valid right? ::**

The British Fighting legacy was long ago secured by guys like Jimmy Wilde, Randolph Turpin and Ken Buchannan

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Originally Posted by Cuchulain

The British Fighting legacy was long ago secured by guys like Jimmy Wilde, Randolph Turpin and Ken Buchannan

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cc Damn right.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

You mean the recently canned Jay Larkin,who didnt work for either Joes or Bernards production team?
You mean that unemployed Jay Larkin right?
Or is there another one out there
Gullible as the day is long you lot are
Let me clue you in,Calzaghe's stateside cable company is HBO
Bernard turned down a multi fight deal with Showtime right after the Trinidad fight
So how,exactly,would the head of Showtime boxing be in any position to have had either of them in a room agreeing to a fight.Especially in conjunction with a promoter Bernard doesnt use unless he has to,which he would have had no reason to do in this case.
No please,this ought to be rich
I mean other then the wrong network and the wrong promoter,the stories totally valid right? ::**

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Calzgahe's HBO debut was Sakio Bika. ALL his previous fights had been on Showtime ;)

Read this it's from 2002 - in an interview with Maxboxing.com.

Hopkins stated: "Right now I'm negotiating along with Don King and Jay Larkin of Showtime. Who we spoke to and we're going to talk to him about two fights, maybe my mandatory too, which makes it a three-fight deal.

"It would be the mandatory, Harry Simon and Joe Calzaghe. While Calzaghe fights for that other super-middleweight title, I'll wait for that and knock off Simon after the mandatory and fight the WBO title."
http://archive.southwalesargus.co.uk.../17/72933.html

So.. there's no way Jay Larkin could have been involved in any discussions about a possible Hopkins-Calzaghe fight, right?

Let me guess HOPKINS is LYING? ;D

Interesting that it only exists on a South Wales rag,when everything he said here was he wanted the defenses record at middleweight,and who leaked this story?
Why Frank Warren of course
Interesting he had just turned down a 3 fight deal with Showtime,but suddenly wants a two fight deal with them
Oh do please

Now if you wanted to make a case he dodged a rematch with Tito at middleweight,youve got a pretty good case.
I have no idea what Tito's people were offering though

Hold-up. Let me get this staight. You're now claiming - Hopkins is lying.. or Frank Warren fabricated an interview with maxboxing, to leak to the press, just like Jay Larkin fabricated a meeting between all involved discussing the possibility of a Calzaghe-Hopkins fight? That's it, right? ;D

Is the BBC good enough for you? Here's the story again with the Hopkins lies.. Or is it Warrens fabricated maxboxing interview ;D
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/low/wales/1991289.stm

This is from Thomas Hauser. This article refers to Hopkins scuppering a $10.5m three-fight deal with Showtime that included a fight with Calzaghe.
http://www.secondsout.com/USA/colhau...cs=208&cs=8636

Ditto this link
http://www.puertorico-herald.org/iss...at0635-en.html

;)