Has There Been Any Boxer Who Has Fought As Many Quality Opponents As Oscar ??

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Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Muhammad Ali, Leonard, Duran all did

I still think that Robinson's opposition was overrated... say waht you may but guys like Turpin just fought him at the right time, and IMO there are few guys who would have beaten everybody he fought.

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Anything to argue...and DLH opp was not caught at the right time?...Pernell was at his best right?....Chavez as well ::**

Leonard's best wins are Duran, Hearns, Hagler and Benitez....Duran was at his best during the LW years...he was given a gift against Hagler...LaLonde was and OK opp...we wont even count Norris and Camacho because Ray was embaressed in those fights...they were long past his best days.....

So please how do you question Robinsons comp but not Leonards?

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I agree you can for certain question Leonard's opposition, he only fought Hagler with a smaller ring, plus only a 12 round fight instead of 15 round fight. Plus he only fought Hagler when he thought Hagler was shot. But still Leonard deserves huge credit for the win considering he had not fought in 3 years.

Same with the Hearns rematch Leonard only fought Hearns after seeing Barkley KO Hearns, everyone thought Hearns was a shot fighter and so did Leonard so he thought he see a good opportunity when Hearns was on the slide but boy was he wrong.

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Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing

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Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Muhammad Ali, Leonard, Duran all did

I still think that Robinson's opposition was overrated... say waht you may but guys like Turpin just fought him at the right time, and IMO there are few guys who would have beaten everybody he fought.

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Anything to argue...and DLH opp was not caught at the right time?...Pernell was at his best right?....Chavez as well ::**

Leonard's best wins are Duran, Hearns, Hagler and Benitez....Duran was at his best during the LW years...he was given a gift against Hagler...LaLonde was and OK opp...we wont even count Norris and Camacho because Ray was embaressed in those fights...they were long past his best days.....

So please how do you question Robinsons comp but not Leonards?

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I agree you can for certain question Leonard's opposition, he only fought Hagler with a smaller ring, plus only a 12 round fight instead of 15 round fight. Plus he only fought Hagler when he thought Hagler was shot. But still Leonard deserves huge credit for the win considering he had not fought in 3 years.

Same with the Hearns rematch Leonard only fought Hearns after seeing Barkley KO Hearns, everyone thought Hearns was a shot fighter and so did Leonard so he thought he see a good opportunity when Hearns was on the slide but boy was he wrong.

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But he didn't win. Leonard fought scared the whole fight. It was smoke and mirrors all night for Leonard and the judges fell for it. He stoled it. I had Hagler winning by 4 rounds. Anybody with any boxing knowledge can see Leonard didn't really want to fight. And he didn't deserve the win. So I give Leonard no credit at all for this so-called "win".

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Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Muhammad Ali, Leonard, Duran all did

I still think that Robinson's opposition was overrated... say waht you may but guys like Turpin just fought him at the right time, and IMO there are few guys who would have beaten everybody he fought.

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Anything to argue...and DLH opp was not caught at the right time?...Pernell was at his best right?....Chavez as well ::**

Leonard's best wins are Duran, Hearns, Hagler and Benitez....Duran was at his best during the LW years...he was given a gift against Hagler...LaLonde was and OK opp...we wont even count Norris and Camacho because Ray was embaressed in those fights...they were long past his best days.....

So please how do you question Robinsons comp but not Leonards?

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Um that wasn't a gift decision against Hagler, first of all Hagler screwed up the first few rounds then LEonard outlanded him in other rounds... just because Leonard can't hit as hard doesn't mean his punches shouldn't have been counted.

People say Lamotta was so great, but he lost like 31 times, and what you said where Leonard's best wins against arguably the best middleweight ever, possibly the hardest hitting best outside fighting welterweight ever, and Duran who was IMO a tougher opponent when he fought at welterweight because he had great timing and used a lot more defense than at lightweight where he couldnt' take the same type of punches and he was a lot easier to hit. Benitez is one of the top ten best defensive fighters ever.

Lamotta, Olson, Basilio, Fullmer, Graziano, etc, etc. were all tough guys, but thats pretty much all they had.

Robinson did fight Turpin, Gavilan, Armstrong(who was way past his prime compared to Whitaker). But do they really compare to Duran, Hearns, and Hagler? I think not. Gavilan lost 30 of his 100 fights, and some of them were against ridiculous guys and he retired when he was 34.

I don't know why Tommy Bell is mentioned he was not a great at all.

Did Leonard fight a whole slew of legends, no but he did face some of the best legends we've ever seen and beat them all, but after seeing everybody Oscar fought I realize neither of these guys had enough fights against the greats to match up with oscar close to as much as guys like Ali and Duran did.

So Robinson did fight some guys I consider really good in fights we never saw, but he also fought a lot of guys who matched almost the exact same

If your not counting Leonard against norris then don't count RObinson against Joey ARcher who was able to floor RObinson despite only having 8 ko's in 45 wins and he lost his next 3 which forced him to retire

And I do anything to argue? Kahn your still acting like a 12 year old, grow up. Did I say 12? I meant 6 year old.

Ice Cold I don't see how you have Hagler winning by four rounds, sure Leonard ran away, what do you expect he was fighting Hagler at Hagler's weight, but he outlanded Hagler by abit, he made Hagler miss a lot, he hit Hagler with flurries of punches while Hagler would land one or two to the body.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing

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Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Muhammad Ali, Leonard, Duran all did

I still think that Robinson's opposition was overrated... say waht you may but guys like Turpin just fought him at the right time, and IMO there are few guys who would have beaten everybody he fought.

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Anything to argue...and DLH opp was not caught at the right time?...Pernell was at his best right?....Chavez as well ::**

Leonard's best wins are Duran, Hearns, Hagler and Benitez....Duran was at his best during the LW years...he was given a gift against Hagler...LaLonde was and OK opp...we wont even count Norris and Camacho because Ray was embaressed in those fights...they were long past his best days.....

So please how do you question Robinsons comp but not Leonards?

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I agree you can for certain question Leonard's opposition, he only fought Hagler with a smaller ring, plus only a 12 round fight instead of 15 round fight. Plus he only fought Hagler when he thought Hagler was shot. But still Leonard deserves huge credit for the win considering he had not fought in 3 years.

Same with the Hearns rematch Leonard only fought Hearns after seeing Barkley KO Hearns, everyone thought Hearns was a shot fighter and so did Leonard so he thought he see a good opportunity when Hearns was on the slide but boy was he wrong.

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But he didn't win. Leonard fought scared the whole fight. It was smoke and mirrors all night for Leonard and the judges fell for it. He stoled it. I had Hagler winning by 4 rounds. Anybody with any boxing knowledge can see Leonard didn't really want to fight. And he didn't deserve the win. So I give Leonard no credit at all for this so-called "win".

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I gave Leonard the 1st 4 rounds Hagler tried to box with Leonard and gave away the 1st 4 rounds IMO. Hagler come back strong in the middle rounds and started to work on the inside effectively, if i remember right i gave Leonard one of the later rounds and the 12th round making it a draw. I think Hagler only has himself to blame because he was too over confident in the 1st 4 rounds and he gave those crucial rounds away which made a big difference. I think if Hagler would of started off fast he could of possibly stopped Leonard late in the fight.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Muhammad Ali, Leonard, Duran all did

I still think that Robinson's opposition was overrated... say waht you may but guys like Turpin just fought him at the right time, and IMO there are few guys who would have beaten everybody he fought.

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Anything to argue...and DLH opp was not caught at the right time?...Pernell was at his best right?....Chavez as well ::**

Leonard's best wins are Duran, Hearns, Hagler and Benitez....Duran was at his best during the LW years...he was given a gift against Hagler...LaLonde was and OK opp...we wont even count Norris and Camacho because Ray was embaressed in those fights...they were long past his best days.....

So please how do you question Robinsons comp but not Leonards?

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Um that wasn't a gift decision against Hagler, first of all Hagler screwed up the first few rounds then LEonard outlanded him in other rounds... just because Leonard can't hit as hard doesn't mean his punches shouldn't have been counted.

People say Lamotta was so great, but he lost like 31 times, and what you said where Leonard's best wins against arguably the best middleweight ever, possibly the hardest hitting best outside fighting welterweight ever, and Duran who was IMO a tougher opponent when he fought at welterweight because he had great timing and used a lot more defense than at lightweight where he couldnt' take the same type of punches and he was a lot easier to hit. Benitez is one of the top ten best defensive fighters ever.

Lamotta, Olson, Basilio, Fullmer, Graziano, etc, etc. were all tough guys, but thats pretty much all they had.

Robinson did fight Turpin, Gavilan, Armstrong(who was way past his prime compared to Whitaker). But do they really compare to Duran, Hearns, and Hagler? I think not. Gavilan lost 30 of his 100 fights, and some of them were against ridiculous guys and he retired when he was 34.

I don't know why Tommy Bell is mentioned he was not a great at all.

Did Leonard fight a whole slew of legends, no but he did face some of the best legends we've ever seen and beat them all, but after seeing everybody Oscar fought I realize neither of these guys had enough fights against the greats to match up with oscar close to as much as guys like Ali and Duran did.

So Robinson did fight some guys I consider really good in fights we never saw, but he also fought a lot of guys who matched almost the exact same

If your not counting Leonard against norris then don't count RObinson against Joey ARcher who was able to floor RObinson despite only having 8 ko's in 45 wins and he lost his next 3 which forced him to retire

And I do anything to argue? Kahn your still acting like a 12 year old, grow up. Did I say 12? I meant 6 year old.

Ice Cold I don't see how you have Hagler winning by four rounds, sure Leonard ran away, what do you expect he was fighting Hagler at Hagler's weight, but he outlanded Hagler by abit, he made Hagler miss a lot, he hit Hagler with flurries of punches while Hagler would land one or two to the body.

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I never had Hagler winning by 4 rounds that was VD's scorecard. I had the fight even.

I thought this thread was about great opponents? Not wins, losses or draws?

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by Daxx Kahn

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Muhammad Ali, Leonard, Duran all did

I still think that Robinson's opposition was overrated... say waht you may but guys like Turpin just fought him at the right time, and IMO there are few guys who would have beaten everybody he fought.

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Anything to argue...and DLH opp was not caught at the right time?...Pernell was at his best right?....Chavez as well ::**

Leonard's best wins are Duran, Hearns, Hagler and Benitez....Duran was at his best during the LW years...he was given a gift against Hagler...LaLonde was and OK opp...we wont even count Norris and Camacho because Ray was embaressed in those fights...they were long past his best days.....

So please how do you question Robinsons comp but not Leonards?

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Um that wasn't a gift decision against Hagler, first of all Hagler screwed up the first few rounds then LEonard outlanded him in other rounds... just because Leonard can't hit as hard doesn't mean his punches shouldn't have been counted.

People say Lamotta was so great, but he lost like 31 times, and what you said where Leonard's best wins against arguably the best middleweight ever, possibly the hardest hitting best outside fighting welterweight ever, and Duran who was IMO a tougher opponent when he fought at welterweight because he had great timing and used a lot more defense than at lightweight where he couldnt' take the same type of punches and he was a lot easier to hit. Benitez is one of the top ten best defensive fighters ever.

Lamotta, Olson, Basilio, Fullmer, Graziano, etc, etc. were all tough guys, but thats pretty much all they had.

Robinson did fight Turpin, Gavilan, Armstrong(who was way past his prime compared to Whitaker). But do they really compare to Duran, Hearns, and Hagler? I think not. Gavilan lost 30 of his 100 fights, and some of them were against ridiculous guys and he retired when he was 34.

I don't know why Tommy Bell is mentioned he was not a great at all.

Did Leonard fight a whole slew of legends, no but he did face some of the best legends we've ever seen and beat them all, but after seeing everybody Oscar fought I realize neither of these guys had enough fights against the greats to match up with oscar close to as much as guys like Ali and Duran did.

So Robinson did fight some guys I consider really good in fights we never saw, but he also fought a lot of guys who matched almost the exact same

If your not counting Leonard against norris then don't count RObinson against Joey ARcher who was able to floor RObinson despite only having 8 ko's in 45 wins and he lost his next 3 which forced him to retire

And I do anything to argue? Kahn your still acting like a 12 year old, grow up. Did I say 12? I meant 6 year old.

Ice Cold I don't see how you have Hagler winning by four rounds, sure Leonard ran away, what do you expect he was fighting Hagler at Hagler's weight, but he outlanded Hagler by abit, he made Hagler miss a lot, he hit Hagler with flurries of punches while Hagler would land one or two to the body.

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Again when ever someone does not agree with you or you are caught out there..you want to ensue an arguement....

I originaly had something nasty and well deserved posted but I decided it just isn't worth it...There are plenty of other postershere that can actually debate a topic...so best of luck to ya ;)

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Originally Posted by Kel

I thought this thread was about great opponents? Not wins, losses or draws?

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The thread title says quality opponents not great. Learn to read fucking faggot

Ali,Ray robinson,Henery Armstrong off the top oif my head.

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

It's very hard to think of someone with more quality opponents.

Whether you like Oscar or not, he deserves everyone's respect for his quality of opposition. He could've used his popularity two ways, he could've used it to avoid all the tough guys (because he could still make big $$$ even against bad opponents) or he could've used it to lure all the biggest and best names to fight him. He chose the latter.

I've never been an Oscar fan, the running in the Tito fight was horrible, and I think he got some gift decisions (especially early in his career), but I'll always respect him.

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Word for word,echoes my opinion on Oscar. CC in 24,excellent post.

VD,why was SRL over rated?Just asking.I thought he beat Hagler. I didn't see running.If that was running then so were many other great boxers out there. I aw a man come of a long ass lay off and fight a dominant worl cha,pion and beat him for his title. 12 rounds or not,Halger old or not,for SRL to come back from a long ass layoff and box that way was amazing imo.

It is pointless trying to look at all this through a microscope. Simple fact is very few fighters can match Oscar's resume. If Oscar had recorded a W against each of those fighters, it would be very hard not to have him as a top 5 ATG.

Oscar without a doubt takes the top spot of the who's who of boxing

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

It's very hard to think of someone with more quality opponents.

Whether you like Oscar or not, he deserves everyone's respect for his quality of opposition. He could've used his popularity two ways, he could've used it to avoid all the tough guys (because he could still make big $$$ even against bad opponents) or he could've used it to lure all the biggest and best names to fight him. He chose the latter.

I've never been an Oscar fan, the running in the Tito fight was horrible, and I think he got some gift decisions (especially early in his career), but I'll always respect him.

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Word for word,echoes my opinion on Oscar. CC in 24,excellent post.

VD,why was SRL over rated?Just asking.I thought he beat Hagler. I didn't see running.If that was running then so were many other great boxers out there. I aw a man come of a long a** lay off and fight a dominant worl cha,pion and beat him for his title. 12 rounds or not,Halger old or not,for SRL to come back from a long a** layoff and box that way was amazing imo.

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spot on pal have a :coolclick:! I think Leonard edged it but only JUST.....no matter if Hagler was slightly past it or watever, Leonard had just come back from a LONG layoff and stepped striaght into a fight with perhaps the best middle of all time so surely Leonard was at more of a disadvantage then Hagler would of been?
Thing is if you look at it like he fought him at this time, he fought him when he looked poor in his last fight, he fought him when he was old then EVERY and i repeat EVERY record will have floors. Say what you like about SRL....win/lose/draw.....the thread was about quality opposition and Duran x 3, Hearns x 2, Hagler, Benitez, LaLonde at lightheavy was very good opposition.

Well Oscar has been working with the best since like his 14th pro fight or something crazy like that. That's why it always gets me when people say Oscar has lost every big fight hes been inin. He's definitely been a symbol of something that is right with boxing for the last 15 or so years. Even if Pernell or Chavez were old at the time, there were still a lot of people who wanted those fights made.

Fact is just about every single fight he's been in in in the last 10 years has been against someone who deserved to be in the ring with him.

For the love of god SRL won the fight live with it Khan god. Just joking have a CC on me SRL still the best though.

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

It's very hard to think of someone with more quality opponents.

Whether you like Oscar or not, he deserves everyone's respect for his quality of opposition. He could've used his popularity two ways, he could've used it to avoid all the tough guys (because he could still make big $$$ even against bad opponents) or he could've used it to lure all the biggest and best names to fight him. He chose the latter.

I've never been an Oscar fan, the running in the Tito fight was horrible, and I think he got some gift decisions (especially early in his career), but I'll always respect him.

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I respect Oscar's boxing skills. I mean, he has enough skill not to get KO'd brutally. But I always feel cheated when Oscar fights. I mean, despite the impressive resume, he probably holds the distinction of having the most lackluster performances despite the quality of opposition.