Re: Pretty Strange How Jose Luis Castillo Gave Floyd Mayweather Jr So Much Trouble.
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Originally Posted by Julius Marvelous Rain
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Originally Posted by eagle
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Originally Posted by Julius Marvelous Rain
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Originally Posted by eagle
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Originally Posted by Kel
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Originally Posted by Julius Marvelous Rain
i think its about time we stop thinking what castillo did in that fight would be a blue print in beating floyd. floyd was younger and now his older and better so looking back at that fight i think makes no improvement in a way to beat floyd. im sure floyd knows what castillo did to give him some trouble and thats why im sure he has worked on it and will make sure he won't be trouble by whatever castillo did again. i think the first fight was close it could of gone either way more so to castillo but the rematch showed floyd was improved and won u.d. All fighters come across atleast one tough fight, that was floyds and lets leave it at that. just me 2 cent ;D
Thing is, most Floyd fans say was at his best at that weight.
What was the point of that comment? I think most PBF fans would say his best weights were 130-140, but he is good all the way to 154.
i don't think floyd was at his best at 130 or 135, i think his overrated there. if ever we place him as a great fighter it should be at welterweight but he hasn't really fought true welterweight. Its floyds own fualt why its hard to really determine how great he is.
Surely that is a wind up post!
Overrated at 130 and 135?
14 title defenses at 130 and 135
Beat
Genaro Hernandez
Angel Manfredy
Diego Corrales
Carlos Hernandez
Jesus Chavez
Jose Luis Castillo x 2
The combined record of his opponents in title bouts at those weights was 471-30!!!
If PBF is overrated at 130 and 135 then every fighter in history is overrated!
not really basing it on his accomplishment there, im just saying his just as good above those weight but he hasn't done as much accomplishment above 135 which prolly is why his overrated in a sense of overlooking his just as good or even better above that weight. personally i think floyd could beat every one at 147 but the problem is his just not fighting them all or alteast the top guys, thats why if he does people won't say his best at 130-135. After he does beat everyone at 147 thats when they'll notice his even better at 147. Which is my point, imo his ovveratted at 130-135 cause yea due to his accomlishment there and lack of accomplishment at 147.
That made no sense at all? I think you are trying to say that cos PBF is good at 147 he was overrated at 130 and 135? How can that be? If he beats everyone at 147 he was overrated at 130? Huh?
I guess u subscribe to the theory if u cant convince, confuse.
Re: Pretty Strange How Jose Luis Castillo Gave Floyd Mayweather Jr So Much Trouble.
I really don’t see all the confusion in the Castillo debacle.
Castillo was one tuff cookie back then. He was one of the most feared fellars at the weight & Floyd went toe to toe with him twice for the fan’s sake & came out smelling like a rose in the second bout…the first match up…it drew a hell of a lot more scorn for Floyd than I thought really necessary…but to each his or her own.
That being said…Floyd had several issues with quite a few fighters from 130 to 135, but he still won & he smoked them pretty convincingly.
In all truth…I don’t think that Floyd had issues with the weight but more the reach from Castillo & the fact that Floyd had to date been able to negate size & reach in pretty much everyone that he tussled with. Corrales being the best example of a tall & rangy heavy hitter.
Prior to losing to Floyd…Corrales had never lost & had knocked out all but 5 of the men he had faced up to that point.
Prior to losing to Floyd twice Castillo had lost 3 or 4 times by decision & had just as impressive of a run with knockouts as Corrales did.
You could go down through Floyd’s list of opponents & find more good in them then the bad & unworthy as most of Mayweather’s haters point out. In the end…after Floyd retires…he’ll be considered a GOAT & he’ll also have a HOF worthy record with plenty of names to juggle, dismiss, & prove with their worth. Names like Chavez, Manfredy, Augustus, De la Hoya (twice), Hatton (first knocked out), Judah (questionable), Gatti (paper worth), N’dou, Corley, Juuko, Sosa, Hernandez…and YES...Castillo in his prime…twice being yet another one of them.
In the end…Floyd Mayweather’s list of opponents holds up just as well as the majority of the other fighters slinging leather in the squared circle these days…& that & the ease that Floyd handles his fellow pugilists with is what will define him for years to come…that & his next two or three fights…even his May, 2008 rematch with Oscar De la Hoya.
Re: Pretty Strange How Jose Luis Castillo Gave Floyd Mayweather Jr So Much Trouble.
Surprised nobody has mentioned the torn rotator cuff injury he was carrying into that fight as well? Not saying that Castillo's style wouldn't have given him fits anyway but the injury must have compounded the effect. I still gave that fight to PBF by 1 round anyway. He easily won first 5 for me and 2 of the last 7. I think i'm gonna watch that fight again tonight.
Re: Pretty Strange How Jose Luis Castillo Gave Floyd Mayweather Jr So Much Trouble.
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Originally Posted by Althugz
Surprised nobody has mentioned the torn rotator cuff injury he was carrying into that fight as well? Not saying that Castillo's style wouldn't have given him fits anyway but the injury must have compounded the effect. I still gave that fight to PBF by 1 round anyway. He easily won first 5 for me and 2 of the last 7. I think i'm gonna watch that fight again tonight.
It really does not matter if he was injured he lost the fight.
Anyway, Castillo moved really well and Floyd hated the body shots. I forget who said Floyd went toe to toe but my god did he fuck, he threw more steps than a tap dancer in some rounds.
Credit due to Floyd for fighting hurt though. If he was hurt :P
Re: Pretty Strange How Jose Luis Castillo Gave Floyd Mayweather Jr So Much Trouble.
As I've argued here a ton of times, the first Castillo fight has absolutely no relevance anymore. Not only was it 6 years so, but more importantly, Castillo didn't have any type of secret formula on how to give Floyd problems. It was simply a case of Floyd having a bad night. If Castillo had known the secret to beat Floyd, then he would have beaten Floyd in the rematch. And that didn't happen, Floyd clearly beat him in the rematch.
Castillo fought well, Floyd fought poorly, and as a result it was a close fight that could have gone either way.
Re: Pretty Strange How Jose Luis Castillo Gave Floyd Mayweather Jr So Much Troub
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
As I've argued here a ton of times, the first Castillo fight has absolutely no relevance anymore. Not only was it 6 years so, but more importantly, Castillo didn't have any type of secret formula on how to give Floyd problems. It was simply a case of Floyd having a bad night. If Castillo had known the secret to beat Floyd, then he would have beaten Floyd in the rematch. And that didn't happen, Floyd clearly beat him in the rematch.
Castillo fought well, Floyd fought poorly, and as a result it was a close fight that could have gone either way.
Yeah,that's true...to an extent. JLC DID lay down some sort of blue print in that fight. That the way to beat Mayweather is not bum rushing him(Hatton) and you have have have to be a natural pressure fighter to beat him(unlike Oscar). He also showed that no matter how great the boxer,EVERYONE is open to the body. Nearly allllllll JLC's work was to the body.
It also debunks the theory that all Oscar and Hatton fans had,that their man was faster than JLC so he would do better. JLC is average speed on his best days but he had the natural style,the timing and bodywork and awkwardness. Those are 3 things which are needed to beat Floyd which is why I thought Margarito would have a good chance at giving Floyd a tough fight(obviously that fight not likely to occur now) and it's also why I think Cotto would give Floyd a tough fight.They are big strong guys with natural pressure styles,body work and jabs.
Sure,Floyd won the rematch but again,he didn't look great again did he? I had it 116-112 and 115-113 on repeated viewings.It was a good win for Floyd but dam tough.
Re: Pretty Strange How Jose Luis Castillo Gave Floyd Mayweather Jr So Much Trouble.
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
As I've argued here a ton of times, the first Castillo fight has absolutely no relevance anymore. Not only was it 6 years so, but more importantly, Castillo didn't have any type of secret formula on how to give Floyd problems. It was simply a case of Floyd having a bad night. If Castillo had known the secret to beat Floyd, then he would have beaten Floyd in the rematch. And that didn't happen, Floyd clearly beat him in the rematch.
Castillo fought well, Floyd fought poorly, and as a result it was a close fight that could have gone either way.
Floyd had a phuked up chicken wing in the first fight so he was basicly a one armed chicken.
He should have never been given the decision in that first fight.
The second fight, Floyd was all there and came in like the Rooster that he can be. He beat Castillo silly. It would have been a lot more exciting had Floyd not gotten the first gift and then came back to win it in the second fight. (Legendary stuff) Those are the best fights IMO when a fighter beats a man who he lost to. Like many of you are hoping Taylor does with Pavlik. Know what I mean? If Taylor beats Pavlik, we are in for a TRILOGY if the fight is made with in the year and not 10 years later either.
Re: Pretty Strange How Jose Luis Castillo Gave Floyd Mayweather Jr So Much Trouble.
There isn't any single advantage Tarver had over Jones, but he just had his number. Sometimes that's just the way it is.
Floyd is never going to face a more skilled opponent.....because there aint one.
So if he does lose at some point, it will be to someone who might not be able to match him skill or talent wise, but someone who just had Floyd's number on that particular night.
I just think that maybe Floyd had an off night and i think he hurt his hand at some point. Also Castillo was a great fighter.....still is imo.
Re: Pretty Strange How Jose Luis Castillo Gave Floyd Mayweather Jr So Much Troub
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Originally Posted by Althugz
Surprised nobody has mentioned the torn rotator cuff injury he was carrying into that fight as well? Not saying that Castillo's style wouldn't have given him fits anyway but the injury must have compounded the effect. I still gave that fight to PBF by 1 round anyway. He easily won first 5 for me and 2 of the last 7. I think i'm gonna watch that fight again tonight.
Yea i already know about his torn rotator cuff injury, and i totally agree about the 1st 5 rounds. I gave them to Mayweather easily everyone thinks Castillo won the 5th round easy, but i disagree Mayweather controlled that round until Castillo's little arm punches on the inside at the end.
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Originally Posted by wacko3205
I really don’t see all the confusion in the Castillo debacle.
Castillo was one tuff cookie back then. He was one of the most feared fellars at the weight & Floyd went toe to toe with him twice for the fan’s sake & came out smelling like a rose in the second bout…the first match up…it drew a hell of a lot more scorn for Floyd than I thought really necessary…but to each his or her own.
That being said…Floyd had several issues with quite a few fighters from 130 to 135, but he still won & he smoked them pretty convincingly.
In all truth…I don’t think that Floyd had issues with the weight but more the reach from Castillo & the fact that Floyd had to date been able to negate size & reach in pretty much everyone that he tussled with. Corrales being the best example of a tall & rangy heavy hitter.
Prior to losing to Floyd…Corrales had never lost & had knocked out all but 5 of the men he had faced up to that point.
Prior to losing to Floyd twice Castillo had lost 3 or 4 times by decision & had just as impressive of a run with knockouts as Corrales did.
You could go down through Floyd’s list of opponents & find more good in them then the bad & unworthy as most of Mayweather’s haters point out. In the end…after Floyd retires…he’ll be considered a GOAT & he’ll also have a HOF worthy record with plenty of names to juggle, dismiss, & prove with their worth. Names like Chavez, Manfredy, Augustus, De la Hoya (twice), Hatton (first knocked out), Judah (questionable), Gatti (paper worth), N’dou, Corley, Juuko, Sosa, Hernandez…and YES...Castillo in his prime…twice being yet another one of them.
In the end…Floyd Mayweather’s list of opponents holds up just as well as the majority of the other fighters slinging leather in the squared circle these days…& that & the ease that Floyd handles his fellow pugilists with is what will define him for years to come…that & his next two or three fights…even his May, 2008 rematch with Oscar De la Hoya.
Sorry but i disagree with this slightly Wacko, Mayweather did not go toe to toe with Castillo twice. In fact he was on the move constantly against Castillo in the 1st fight, the only real time when he stood toe to toe was the 11th round, and in the rematch Mayweather did not even once stand toe to toe. Im not saying thats a bad thing but im just saying he didn't stand toe to toe IMO.
Mayweather never had any trouble with anyone at 130, 135, only Chavez, Castillo. But everyone else he pretty much dominated, the only other tough fight i can think of is the Carlos Hernandez fight. But that was only tougher than it should of been because Mayweather badly broke his hand. But he still cruised to victory quite easily.
I think Mayweather's opposition is solid and so is his achievements.
Mayweather's Wins
Ricky Hatton
Oscar De La Hoya
Genaro Hernandez
Carlos Hernandez
Zab Judah
Arturo Gatti
Diego Corrales
Genaro Hernandez
Angel Manfredy
Jose Luis Castillo x2
Phillip N'dou
World titles at Super Featherweight, Lightweight, Jr Welterweight, Welterweight, Light Middleweight.
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Originally Posted by Kel
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Originally Posted by Althugz
Surprised nobody has mentioned the torn rotator cuff injury he was carrying into that fight as well? Not saying that Castillo's style wouldn't have given him fits anyway but the injury must have compounded the effect. I still gave that fight to PBF by 1 round anyway. He easily won first 5 for me and 2 of the last 7. I think i'm gonna watch that fight again tonight.
It really does not matter if he was injured he lost the fight.
Anyway, Castillo moved really well and Floyd hated the body shots. I forget who said Floyd went toe to toe but my god did he F***, he threw more steps than a tap dancer in some rounds.
Credit due to Floyd for fighting hurt though. If he was hurt :P
Sorry Kel but i totally disagree, of course is matters if he was hurt. Rotator cuff injury is very painful didn't Vitali Klitschko quit against Byrd with a similar injury ?? and why do you keep saying Mayweather for certain lost the fight ?? an argument could be made that Mayweather won the 1st 5 rounds, and that he won another 2 rounds easily, i hate it when people say he for certain lost the fight, when you could make an argument either way it was a very close fight.
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
As I've argued here a ton of times, the first Castillo fight has absolutely no relevance anymore. Not only was it 6 years so, but more importantly, Castillo didn't have any type of secret formula on how to give Floyd problems. It was simply a case of Floyd having a bad night. If Castillo had known the secret to beat Floyd, then he would have beaten Floyd in the rematch. And that didn't happen, Floyd clearly beat him in the rematch.
Castillo fought well, Floyd fought poorly, and as a result it was a close fight that could have gone either way.
Yeah,that's true...to an extent. JLC DID lay down some sort of blue print in that fight. That the way to beat Mayweather is not bum rushing him(Hatton) and you have have have to be a natural pressure fighter to beat him(unlike Oscar). He also showed that no matter how great the boxer,EVERYONE is open to the body. Nearly allllllll JLC's work was to the body.
It also debunks the theory that all Oscar and Hatton fans had,that their man was faster than JLC so he would do better. JLC is average speed on his best days but he had the natural style,the timing and bodywork and awkwardness. Those are 3 things which are needed to beat Floyd which is why I thought Margarito would have a good chance at giving Floyd a tough fight(obviously that fight not likely to occur now) and it's also why I think Cotto would give Floyd a tough fight.They are big strong guys with natural pressure styles,body work and jabs.
Sure,Floyd won the rematch but again,he didn't look great again did he? I had it 116-112 and 115-113 on repeated viewings.It was a good win for Floyd but dam tough.
Good posting El Gamo i totally agree, timing beats speed any day of the week. And Castillo was timing his shots very well. Where as Oscar, Hatton, were just coming in rushing and not picking there shots, they were just trying to land with any shot they could instead of setting it up with timing etc. Thats why i think Miguel Cotto gives Mayweather a tougher fight than people expect, because he has patient aggression and Cotto picks his shots well. He also has a good jab and good hand speed.
As for the rematch i agree it was tougher than i remember Mayweather won the early rounds easy as pie. Then Castillo comeback strong in the middle rounds making it close, then round about 9 or 10th round, Mayweather took over and won the rest of the rounds comfortably except the 12th round where an argument could be made for either fighter. But 115-113 or 116-112 is spot on.
Re: Pretty Strange How Jose Luis Castillo Gave Floyd Mayweather Jr So Much Trouble.
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Originally Posted by eagle
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Originally Posted by Julius Marvelous Rain
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Originally Posted by eagle
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Originally Posted by Julius Marvelous Rain
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Originally Posted by eagle
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Originally Posted by Kel
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Originally Posted by Julius Marvelous Rain
i think its about time we stop thinking what castillo did in that fight would be a blue print in beating floyd. floyd was younger and now his older and better so looking back at that fight i think makes no improvement in a way to beat floyd. im sure floyd knows what castillo did to give him some trouble and thats why im sure he has worked on it and will make sure he won't be trouble by whatever castillo did again. i think the first fight was close it could of gone either way more so to castillo but the rematch showed floyd was improved and won u.d. All fighters come across atleast one tough fight, that was floyds and lets leave it at that. just me 2 cent ;D
Thing is, most Floyd fans say was at his best at that weight.
What was the point of that comment? I think most PBF fans would say his best weights were 130-140, but he is good all the way to 154.
i don't think floyd was at his best at 130 or 135, i think his overrated there. if ever we place him as a great fighter it should be at welterweight but he hasn't really fought true welterweight. Its floyds own fualt why its hard to really determine how great he is.
Surely that is a wind up post!
Overrated at 130 and 135?
14 title defenses at 130 and 135
Beat
Genaro Hernandez
Angel Manfredy
Diego Corrales
Carlos Hernandez
Jesus Chavez
Jose Luis Castillo x 2
The combined record of his opponents in title bouts at those weights was 471-30!!!
If PBF is overrated at 130 and 135 then every fighter in history is overrated!
not really basing it on his accomplishment there, im just saying his just as good above those weight but he hasn't done as much accomplishment above 135 which prolly is why his overrated in a sense of overlooking his just as good or even better above that weight. personally i think floyd could beat every one at 147 but the problem is his just not fighting them all or alteast the top guys, thats why if he does people won't say his best at 130-135. After he does beat everyone at 147 thats when they'll notice his even better at 147. Which is my point, imo his ovveratted at 130-135 cause yea due to his accomlishment there and lack of accomplishment at 147.
That made no sense at all? I think you are trying to say that cos PBF is good at 147 he was overrated at 130 and 135? How can that be? If he beats everyone at 147 he was overrated at 130? Huh?
I guess u subscribe to the theory if u cant convince, confuse.
I PROLLY CAME OFF WRONG, but for the record i am not saying floyd is actually OVERRATED at those weight. i was just trying to make a comparison between 130-135 and 147. I use the word overrate in an attempt to mean that i believe he is much better at 147 but since he hasn't beaten much fighters at that weight people think he is a lot better at 130-135. I think once he does fight the top 147 guys he'll beat them,look good doing it and will overshadow his days at 130-135. now i hope i explained it better on why i said the word OVERRATED at 130-135.
Re: Pretty Strange How Jose Luis Castillo Gave Floyd Mayweather Jr So Much Trouble.
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
As I've argued here a ton of times, the first Castillo fight has absolutely no relevance anymore. Not only was it 6 years so, but more importantly, Castillo didn't have any type of secret formula on how to give Floyd problems. It was simply a case of Floyd having a bad night. If Castillo had known the secret to beat Floyd, then he would have beaten Floyd in the rematch. And that didn't happen, Floyd clearly beat him in the rematch.
Castillo fought well, Floyd fought poorly, and as a result it was a close fight that could have gone either way.
:coolclick: thats actually what i was trying to say. that fight has absolutely no relevance anymore. its like saying how pac was knock out twice, it was centuries ago and you can watch it a million times but still find nothing on how to beat him now. like i said all fighters have their tough fights some tougher then others and castillo 1 was floyds and compare that to other fighters....that isn't so darn bad.
