Re: ROY JONES VS HALL WOW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greig
Roy Jones may be one of the greatest cons in the history of boxing.
He wasted his prime fighting guys who simply were not on his level. His greatest wins are against Hopkins, James Toney and John Ruiz.
Hopkins is a great win - but Hopkins hadn't hit his peak then and would have been a much tougher fight about five years later. Toney was fucked from making weight. And John Ruiz is John Ruiz.
He should have spent the years from 1993-2000 fighting the elite of the Brits and Europeans, rematching Hopkins and showing us how great he really was.
And now the guys is just smoke and mirrors. He makes some punk excuse for why he lost to Tarver in the third fight (I didn't want my daddy to get the credit if I had won!?!?!)
He is a shot fighter choosing all the right opponents - Prince Badi, Hanshaw and a blown up Tito, while calling out Calzaghe.
The minute he steps up in class he's getting sparked again.
Roy Jones was a sensational fighter, but he wasted his prime and I'm sick of his bullshit and showboating. The sooner someone starches him again and retires his a** for good the happier I'll be.
See i don't understand when people say Hopkins was green, but forget the fact Jones had even less fights. They also forget Toney was top 3 P4P fighter at that time. And they also forget the other quality opponents Jones beat like.
Julio Cesar Gonzalez
Reggie Johnson
Eric Harding
Virgil Hill
Montel Griffin
Vinny Pazienza
Thulani Malinga
Eubank would have never have fought Jones in USA and he even admitted he didn't want to fight Jones because he knew he would lose. Benn was going to fight Jones but he lost to Malinga, Calzaghe wasn't even champion yet. So who are all these Europeans Jones could have fought ??
Re: ROY JONES VS HALL WOW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greig
Roy Jones may be one of the greatest cons in the history of boxing.
He wasted his prime fighting guys who simply were not on his level. His greatest wins are against Hopkins, James Toney and John Ruiz.
Hopkins is a great win - but Hopkins hadn't hit his peak then and would have been a much tougher fight about five years later. Toney was fucked from making weight. And John Ruiz is John Ruiz.
He should have spent the years from 1993-2000 fighting the elite of the Brits and Europeans, rematching Hopkins and showing us how great he really was.
And now the guys is just smoke and mirrors. He makes some punk excuse for why he lost to Tarver in the third fight (I didn't want my daddy to get the credit if I had won!?!?!)
He is a shot fighter choosing all the right opponents - Prince Badi, Hanshaw and a blown up Tito, while calling out Calzaghe.
The minute he steps up in class he's getting sparked again.
Roy Jones was a sensational fighter, but he wasted his prime and I'm sick of his bullshit and showboating. The sooner someone starches him again and retires his a** for good the happier I'll be.
See i don't understand when people say Hopkins was green, but forget the fact Jones had even less fights. They also forget Toney was top 3 P4P fighter at that time. And they also forget the other quality opponents Jones beat like.
Julio Cesar Gonzalez
Reggie Johnson
Eric Harding
Virgil Hill
Montel Griffin
Vinny Pazienza
Thulani Malinga
Eubank would have never have fought Jones in USA and he even admitted he didn't want to fight Jones because he knew he would lose. Benn was going to fight Jones but he lost to Malinga, Calzaghe wasn't even champion yet. So who are all these Europeans Jones could have fought ??
All good fighters, but none of them great fighters. With the possible exception of Hill, but he was just a very good straight ahead boxer who lacked the necessary firepower IMO.
Didn't say Hopkins was 'green', but he certainly hadn't peaked yet. He got better as he got older and probably peaked at 36 with the demolition of a peak Trinidad.
Yes, Toney was highly thought of, but he certainly wasn't at his best when he fought RJJ - even the most ardent Jones fan will tell you that.
Calzaghe was champ from '97. I did say between '93 and 2000.
So Calzaghe, Dariusz Michalczewski, Nigel Benn and Steve Collins were the Europeans that I was referring too.
Lets look at it another way - take a look at all the marquee fighters on Oscar DeLaHoya's resume.
Then compare them to the two on Roy's (B-Hop and Toney).
The sad thing is that, at his peak, Roy was such a better fighter that Oscar - he had all the natural gifts you could want. But I'll always think more fondly of Oscar because he FOUGHT EVERYBODY HE SHOULD HAVE, even if he lost. He's a pretty boy, but for a pretty boy he has one big pair of balls.
Roy on the other hand wasted his prime fighting Glen Kellys because he HAD NO BALLS in spite of all the marvelous physical gifts he had.
Re: ROY JONES VS HALL WOW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greig
All good fighters, but none of them great fighters. With the possible exception of Hill, but he was just a very good straight ahead boxer who lacked the necessary firepower IMO.
Well hardly any boxer in this day and age beats more than 4 great fighters in there careers, Jones still beat Toney, McCallum, Hopkins, Hill. Who are all Hall Of Famer's now McCallum was old but he was still a good fighter because he won Light Heavyweight title shortly before Jones fight, plus after Jones fight he gave Toney all he could handle in there 3rd meeting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greig
Didn't say Hopkins was 'green', but he certainly hadn't peaked yet. He got better as he got older and probably peaked at 36 with the demolition of a peak Trinidad.
Neither had Jones he had even less fights than Hopkins so that works both ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greig
Yes, Toney was highly thought of, but he certainly wasn't at his best when he fought RJJ - even the most ardent Jones fan will tell you that.
Toney always had trouble with his weight throughout his whole career, all i know is that Toney was top 3 P4P fighter and Jones basically shut him out and he dropped him en route to a lopsided decision win. And lets not forget Toney has only even been dropped 3 times in his whole career by Samuel Peter, Reggie Johnson, Roy Jones Jr.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greig
Calzaghe was champ from '97. I did say between '93 and 2000.
Calzaghe wasn't even known outside the UK at that time, plus Jones was at Light Heavyweight before Calzaghe even become champion. Jones would of had to gone over to UK while moving down in weight to fight a fighter who had no name outside UK, and a fighter who had just come off a very controversial decision to Robin Reid. That was high risk/low reward fight at that time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greig
So Calzaghe, Dariusz Michalczewski, Nigel Benn and Steve Collins were the Europeans that I was referring too.
Jones tried to bring Dariusz vs Jones fight to USA but Dariusz didn't want any part of it, i already said why Benn vs Jones didn't happen and thats because Benn lost to Malinga in the rematch, im not sure why Collins vs Jones didn't happen but Collins reign didn't last long anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greig
Lets look at it another way - take a look at all the marquee fighters on Oscar DeLaHoya's resume.
On wins alone ??
ODLH Best Wins
Fernando Vargas
Arturo Gatti
Oba Carr
Julio Cesar Chavez x2
Ike Quartey
Pernell Whitaker
John John Molina
Miguel Angel Gonzalez
Jesse James Leija
Jorge Paez
Hector Camacho
Wilfredo Rivera
Ricardo Mayorga
Jones Best Wins
Mike McCallum
John Ruiz
Bernard Hopkins
James Toney
Virgil Hill
Clinton Woods
Reggie Johnson
Montel Griffin
Eric Harding
Vinny Pazienza
Jorge Fernando Castro
Thulani Malinga
Julio Cesar Gonzalez
Felix Trinidad
Re: ROY JONES VS HALL WOW
Lets look at DLH's best losses - to Mosley (twice), to Trinidad and to a far larger Bernard Hopkins. And of course to the reigning Pound for Pound champ Mayweather.
Thats what makes him greater than Roy. Roy's losses were against Antonio Tarver and Glen Johnson.
We'll have to agree to disagree chief.
I just think Roy could have done a lot better in terms of his quality of opposition - and I know I'm not the only guy in the world who feels like that.
Re: ROY JONES VS HALL WOW
Its not even just who Roy beat, but how he beat them... He dominated like nobody else, and he beat his opponents in every facet. ITs like why I know Floyd would beat Oscar before ever fighting a guy of Oscar's skill because, you can tell that these guys are doing things against good competition that we haven't seen before. Roy was making good competition look like a guy fighting in his first professional fight or some roadie trying to fight a champion... he made skilled guys look like amateurs.
Re: ROY JONES VS HALL WOW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Its not even just who Roy beat, but how he beat them... He dominated like nobody else, and he beat his opponents in every facet. ITs like why I know Floyd would beat Oscar before ever fighting a guy of Oscar's skill because, you can tell that these guys are doing things against good competition that we haven't seen before. Roy was making good competition look like a guy fighting in his first professional fight or some roadie trying to fight a champion... he made skilled guys look like amateurs.
Exactly.
Which is precisely why he should have fought everybody out there for him and left no question marks.
Re: ROY JONES VS HALL WOW
Well Jones was a god a SMW but LH he could be beat and i say it again by Michael Spinks and i wish he would of faced Moorer but i think the timing was way off i think Roy was a LH i think when Moorer was a heavyweight but i have to check it out again.
Re: ROY JONES VS HALL WOW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Its not even just who Roy beat, but how he beat them... He dominated like nobody else, and he beat his opponents in every facet. ITs like why I know Floyd would beat Oscar before ever fighting a guy of Oscar's skill because, you can tell that these guys are doing things against good competition that we haven't seen before. Roy was making good competition look like a guy fighting in his first professional fight or some roadie trying to fight a champion... he made skilled guys look like amateurs.
Totally agree, it was how Roy beat them & dominated his opponents. Alot of his opponents came into the fight averaging 40 -50 punches thrown per round but as soon as they faced Roy they were averaging in single figures at most. Roys speed and counter punching just shut most fighters out and left them not knowing what to do or wanting to throw anything. Also alot of his opponents came into the fight having never been KOd until they were put down by Jones.
Re: ROY JONES VS HALL WOW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greig
Lets look at DLH's best losses - to Mosley (twice), to Trinidad and to a far larger Bernard Hopkins. And of course to the reigning Pound for Pound champ Mayweather.
Thats what makes him greater than Roy. Roy's losses were against Antonio Tarver and Glen Johnson.
We'll have to agree to disagree chief.
I just think Roy could have done a lot better in terms of his quality of opposition - and I know I'm not the only guy in the world who feels like that.
Of course ODLH has fought better overall opposition but that doesn't mean anything because if we are using that logic. Look at Jerry Quarry or Marion Wilson they fought better opposition than most of top 10 Heavyweights in history but that doesn't mean anything does it ?? except they lost to the best and are they in top 10 Heavyweights ?? no there not and you know why ?? because losing to great fighters does not rank you above certain fighters, you have to beat great fighters not just be a good loser. Should i respect guys like ODLH for facing the best ?? yes and i always have respected him, but your logic about ODLH being a good loser to some of the top fighters of this era doesn't work for me.
Re: ROY JONES VS HALL WOW
It's absurd to even compare oscar to Roy. Meaning don't insult roy by comparing and obvious lesser fighter/boxer to him..
Forget all the speculative crap as to whose resume was better..it's a fact that roy beat more fighters that were champions or major title holders at some point in their career let see of the top
james toney
Bernard hopkins
anotinio tarver
montell griffin
clinton woods
john ruiz
eric lucas
julio caesar gonzales
glen kelly
felix trinidad
reggie johnson
otis grant
lou de valle
virgil hill
mike mccallum
vinnny pazeniza
well that's 16 guys who were champs at some point during their career, which is more than can be said for the opponents of some of these other so-called ATGs...
not to mention guys like Thulani maligna, merqui sosa, bryant brannon, the aforementioned virgil hill, and thomas tate these fighters who gave the "fighter's roy didn't face" hell by going the distance only to be stopped by roy....
Re: ROY JONES VS HALL WOW
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather+Mosley
It's absurd to even compare oscar to Roy. Meaning don't insult roy by comparing and obvious lesser fighter/boxer to him..
Forget all the speculative crap as to whose resume was better..it's a fact that roy beat more fighters that were champions or major title holders at some point in their career let see of the top
james toney
Bernard hopkins
anotinio tarver
montell griffin
clinton woods
john ruiz
eric lucas
julio caesar gonzales
glen kelly
felix trinidad
reggie johnson
otis grant
lou de valle
virgil hill
mike mccallum
vinnny pazeniza
well that's 16 guys who were champs at some point during their career, which is more than can be said for the opponents of some of these other so-called ATGs...
not to mention guys like Thulani maligna, merqui sosa, bryant brannon, the aforementioned virgil hill, and thomas tate these fighters who gave the "fighter's roy didn't face" hell by going the distance only to be stopped by roy....
Brannon was a bad MF. That crazy fucker was all yolked up and fresh outta prison, with a damn bullet lodged in his neck when Roy fought him. Brannon brought it too, Glen Johnson style, and just got leveled. Tuff, tuff guy though, to get up from that second knockdown when he fell face first.
Then Roy told the ref to stop it, he wouldn't so Roy just unloaded with lefthook-right hand-left hook-right hand and knocked Brannon OUT.
Re: ROY JONES VS HALL WOW
Quote:
Originally Posted by albsur2006
Hey guys, wasn't this Hall fight the fight that Roy Jones was rumored to test positive for steroids and the state commission swept it under the rug?
Steroid abuse accusations in boxing and in many other contact sports is exaggerated IMO
You take contact sport like this. Injuries happen so often, the fans have no idea.
anabolic steroids improve surgical repair of massive or recurrent tears of the shoulder's rotator cuff tendons. This is a fact. Doctor’s prescribe these drugs to athletes after surgeries to help rebuild in a timely fashion, as activity is the athletes meal ticket. .
abuse by such drugs is way overblown in the media.
More to contact sports then meets the eye mates, an athlete is always nursing wounds his whole life.
Re: ROY JONES VS HALL WOW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greig
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greig
Roy Jones may be one of the greatest cons in the history of boxing.
He wasted his prime fighting guys who simply were not on his level. His greatest wins are against Hopkins, James Toney and John Ruiz.
Hopkins is a great win - but Hopkins hadn't hit his peak then and would have been a much tougher fight about five years later. Toney was fucked from making weight. And John Ruiz is John Ruiz.
He should have spent the years from 1993-2000 fighting the elite of the Brits and Europeans, rematching Hopkins and showing us how great he really was.
And now the guys is just smoke and mirrors. He makes some punk excuse for why he lost to Tarver in the third fight (I didn't want my daddy to get the credit if I had won!?!?!)
He is a shot fighter choosing all the right opponents - Prince Badi, Hanshaw and a blown up Tito, while calling out Calzaghe.
The minute he steps up in class he's getting sparked again.
Roy Jones was a sensational fighter, but he wasted his prime and I'm sick of his bullshit and showboating. The sooner someone starches him again and retires his a** for good the happier I'll be.
See i don't understand when people say Hopkins was green, but forget the fact Jones had even less fights. They also forget Toney was top 3 P4P fighter at that time. And they also forget the other quality opponents Jones beat like.
Julio Cesar Gonzalez
Reggie Johnson
Eric Harding
Virgil Hill
Montel Griffin
Vinny Pazienza
Thulani Malinga
Eubank would have never have fought Jones in USA and he even admitted he didn't want to fight Jones because he knew he would lose. Benn was going to fight Jones but he lost to Malinga, Calzaghe wasn't even champion yet. So who are all these Europeans Jones could have fought ??
All good fighters, but none of them
great fighters. With the possible exception of Hill, but he was just a very good straight ahead boxer who lacked the necessary firepower IMO.
Didn't say Hopkins was 'green', but he certainly hadn't peaked yet. He got better as he got older and probably peaked at 36 with the demolition of a peak Trinidad.
Yes, Toney was highly thought of, but he certainly wasn't at his best when he fought RJJ - even the most ardent Jones fan will tell you that.
Calzaghe was champ from '97. I did say between '93 and 2000.
So Calzaghe, Dariusz Michalczewski, Nigel Benn and Steve Collins were the Europeans that I was referring too.
Lets look at it another way - take a look at all the marquee fighters on Oscar DeLaHoya's resume.
Then compare them to the two on Roy's (B-Hop and Toney).
The sad thing is that, at his peak, Roy was such a better fighter that Oscar - he had all the natural gifts you could want. But I'll always think more fondly of Oscar because he FOUGHT EVERYBODY HE SHOULD HAVE, even if he lost. He's a pretty boy, but for a pretty boy he has one big pair of balls.
Roy on the other hand wasted his prime fighting Glen Kellys because he HAD NO BALLS in spite of all the marvelous physical gifts he had.
Not trying to single you out, Greig, this is more for anyone who is dismissive of the Toney fight. It wasn't Roy's fault Toney was weight-drained and he certainly didn't know it when the fight was signed. If Jones had fought any one of those Euro fighters and we found out later they had had trouble making weight then the same dismissal would be brought up. The fact of it is Jones was open to a rematch with Hopkins after he beat Trinidad, but because he was the 175lb champ and had won the first bout he felt Hopkins had to move up rather than him moving down. Hopkins had been babysitting the MW belt for years and he obviously was a natural fit for weight. After Tito there aren't any big name wins on his record (Hopkins is a far worse perpetrator of fighting substandard opponents) and he was probably posturing without any intent on fighting Jones a second time.
Lastly, making a fight is a two-way street. You'll find just as many people who will criticize Calzaghe and other fighters for not making a fight with Jones happen as you'll find critics of Jones. Realize the situation for what it was: Jones was so good it didn't matter how good an opponent you put in front of him. Griffin was no slouch and yet in his first loss he was thoroughly dismantled in a single round.
Re: ROY JONES VS HALL WOW
Roy Jones at his best was magical ! 8)
I give him a good chance with anyone. even today at 160-168.. this is his best and true fighting weight.
Re: ROY JONES VS HALL WOW
I am so tired of the "weight drained" excuse for the Toney fight. That is pure BS. Toney was at the time a pound 4 pound fighter and he simply got his ass handed to him by a better athlete and boxer. The weight issue is just a big excuse...PERIOD.
