The heavyweight division needs excitement

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Originally Posted by jmbtandy

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Originally Posted by aburwell89

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Originally Posted by jmbtandy

Sportsmen always struggle with interviews, it is not their strength, you have to look at the attitude and how they conduct themselves in the ring, going into the Maccarinelli fight Haye was cool calm and collected and in the ring he got the job done, he is not a tv personality he is a boxer, apart from a few guys boxers aren't always the best guys when taking one to one outside the ring, and i am sure it is very similar in a lot of other sports.

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I think you're missing the point. People want superstars. Haye, despite all of his talents as a fighter, is not a superstar. What makes a superstar depends entirely on how they approach it. Ali built up hype by running his mouth and being funny while doing it, Tyson built up hype as his career progressed by acting invincible and crazy. Shit, even guys like Foreman who in my opinion had the personality of a rock in his early years had star power because of how he conducted himself.

Do you have to be a superstar to be a great fighter? No, but it's that " it " factor that packs arenas and gets people excited.

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Funny but I am pretty sure the O2 was packed out, and an army went over to France to see him beat Mormeck, and the fight with Maccarinelli got lots and lots of Hype, what was it 3 or 4 pages in the ring magazine, not bad for an English fight, so hey he must be doing something right, and I can't believe you mentioned George Foreman, surely he is generating the same type of entertainment as Haye, punching power, didn't you just contradict yourself mentioning him???

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I was speaking from a personality stand point.

Also, I'll have you know that I could ask 100 people in my neighborhood if they know who David Haye is and I can pretty much bank on 95 of them not knowing, and the other five only having a faint idea.

That's not star power.

I know where you are coming from but the media has a lot to do with that, not necessarily the boxer in question. Most British people when asked to name current UK boxers will struggle to get past Joe Calzaghe and Ricky Hatton. Everyone who is a boxing fan knows who he is, all over the world. I am currently in camp over in the states and the Haye v Macc fight was on nearly everyones lips.

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Originally Posted by jmbtandy

I know where you are coming from but the media has a lot to do with that, not necessarily the boxer in question. Most British people when asked to name current UK boxers will struggle to get past Joe Calzaghe and Ricky Hatton. Everyone who is a boxing fan knows who he is, all over the world. I am currently in camp over in the states and the Haye v Macc fight was on nearly everyones lips.

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The goal is not just to attract fight fans. No matter how good or bad the scene is, they're going to show up or tune in regardless. The goal should be to take it a step further, to put the sport on an international stage and get as many people interested as possible. The days of everyone talkling about fighters down at the local bar or pub aren't too far gone you know, and regardless of how pessimistic some boxing fans are, there's still plenty of room for boxing to come back to the level it was once on.

In an odd way I like the Heavyweight division being in a somewhat rebuilding phase.It killls me when Im making small talk through the day and some one ask me "Yeah,I like Boxing........BTW, when is Tyson fighting again" or some broadbrush s!!! like that.They have absolutly no clue about the current sport & the great fighters they are missing.Part time suedo fans Lol.The exposure and huge lighter weight fights that we have seen the last number of years is great.......and a long time coming.Point blank....The days of The mostly American Heavyweight dominance are gone.

I do see Haye as lighting some fires and creating an Interest just on sheer volume of voice and showmanship,Not to mention a big right hand.He will need far more than that to duplicate the past accomplishmnets of top heavys like Tyson,Holyfield,Lewis,etc.No man does it alone ,They all helped put each other on the front page in different ways.

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Originally Posted by aburwell89

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Originally Posted by jmbtandy

I know where you are coming from but the media has a lot to do with that, not necessarily the boxer in question. Most British people when asked to name current UK boxers will struggle to get past Joe Calzaghe and Ricky Hatton. Everyone who is a boxing fan knows who he is, all over the world. I am currently in camp over in the states and the Haye v Macc fight was on nearly everyones lips.

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The goal is not just to attract fight fans. No matter how good or bad the scene is, they're going to show up or tune in regardless. The goal should be to take it a step further, to put the sport on an international stage and get as many people interested as possible. The days of everyone talkling about fighters down at the local bar or pub aren't too far gone you know, and regardless of how pessimistic some boxing fans are, there's still plenty of room for boxing to come back to the level it was once on.

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Of course, that's why I say the media needs to step up, still using Haye as an example, someone watching the fight with Macc or Mormeck would surely want to watch more. Sometimes it needs a big challenger to come in to make a fighter well known, Benn v Eubank or Bruno v Tyson, If Haye fights Klitschko win or lose he will get the attention because people know the potential excitement of that fight would bring.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

In an odd way I like the Heavyweight division being in a somewhat rebuilding phase.It killls me when Im making small talk through the day and some one ask me "Yeah,I like Boxing........BTW, when is Tyson fighting again" or some broadbrush s!!! like that.They have absolutly no clue about the current sport & the great fighters they are missing.Part time suedo fans Lol.The exposure and huge lighter weight fights that we have seen the last number of years is great.......and a long time coming.Point blank....The days of The mostly American Heavyweight dominance are gone.

I do see Haye as lighting some fires and creating an Interest just on sheer volume of voice and showmanship,Not to mention a big right hand.He will need far more than that to duplicate the past accomplishmnets of top heavys like Tyson,Holyfield,Lewis,etc.No man does it alone ,They all helped put each other on the front page in different ways.

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Damn right! Good post, and I agree 100%. The casual boxing fan can only talk about Tyson and stuff like, and has no clue as to the great boxing in the lower weight classes. And because the HW's are in such sad shape nowadays, it sort of forces the focus on the lower, more exciting weight divisions.

I think there is a quite a few exciting match ups to be made at Heavyweight the only problem is that the fights aren't happening. But with Haye moving up to hopefully fight Wladimir or Peter as soon as possible that should bring some excitement in Heavyweight.

Samuel Peter vs David Haye
David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko
Andrew Golota vs Alexander Povetkin

etc.

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Originally Posted by ICB

I think there is a quite a few exciting match ups to be made at Heavyweight the only problem is that the fights aren't happening. But with Haye moving up to hopefully fight Wladimir or Peter as soon as possible that should bring some excitement in Heavyweight.

Samuel Peter vs David Haye
David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko
Andrew Golota vs Alexander Povetkin

etc.

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Sorry did you mention Golota v Povetkin as an exciting fight???

Really?

You people mention big heavyweights like we have ever had anything else.

Joe Louis ....not the biggest but certainly BIG for his day at 6'2 205
Sonny Liston 6'1 210-220
Muhamed Ali the biggest heavyweight of his era...even bigger than Foreman. 6'3-6'4 210-225 during his prime years
Larry Holmes 6'3-6'4 210-220 in his prime
Riddick Bowe 6'5 230
Lennox Lewis 6'5 250

It doesn't matter about the size. The division right now is in flux Valuev and Chagaev are off in their own little world fighting the chumps of the division when there is a guy who holds half the recognized world championship belts ready to give anything to get a shot at the other titles....only Vitali wants back in and HE wants a title too.

The problems with the division are:

#1 titles aren't being unified...we're going to have to wait almost another year for Wladimir to get a shot at anyone else with a title due to the mandatories and Vitali's comeback.

#2 The big fights aren't being made...there are interesting fights to be made but they aren't happening...Arreola-Witherspoon is a step in the right direction, let's see who Haye steps in with and what Sultan does in his return.

#3 The signature fighters of the division aren't consistent...Sam Peter for example....he's KO-ing Oleg Maskaev one day then he's fighting McCline and he's utter crap

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Originally Posted by jmbtandy

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Originally Posted by ICB

I think there is a quite a few exciting match ups to be made at Heavyweight the only problem is that the fights aren't happening. But with Haye moving up to hopefully fight Wladimir or Peter as soon as possible that should bring some excitement in Heavyweight.

Samuel Peter vs David Haye
David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko
Andrew Golota vs Alexander Povetkin

etc.

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Sorry did you mention Golota v Povetkin as an exciting fight???

Really?

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Yes why not ??

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by jmbtandy

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Originally Posted by ICB

I think there is a quite a few exciting match ups to be made at Heavyweight the only problem is that the fights aren't happening. But with Haye moving up to hopefully fight Wladimir or Peter as soon as possible that should bring some excitement in Heavyweight.

Samuel Peter vs David Haye
David Haye vs Wladimir Klitschko
Andrew Golota vs Alexander Povetkin

etc.

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Sorry did you mention Golota v Povetkin as an exciting fight???

Really?

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Yes why not ??

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Erm because it won't be an exciting fight, Golota is old and past it and Povetkin is just a regular boxer, nothing special

There are plenty of name fighters out there who are good and can add depth to the division but seemingly no place where they can catch the eye of the public and no one willing to make the matchups.

top level: Wlad, Sam Peter, Vitali, Sultan, Chagaev, and to a faaaaar lesser extent Valuev

Old vets: Golota, Rahman, Briggs, Brewster, Ruiz, Lyakhovich, Virchis, Minto, Skelton, Sprott, Danny Williams, Krasniqi, Sinan Samil Sam, Fres Oquendo, Jameel McCline, Larry Donald, Ray Austin, Domonick Guinn

young/untested fighters: Dimitrenko, Solis, Chambers, Arreola, Witherspoon, Fields (you laugh but hell I'd like to see him fight someone worth a damn), Kevin Johnson, Oleg Platov, Albert Sosnowski, Roman Greenburg, Malik Scott, Denis Boytsov, Mike Marrone, Alonzo Butler, JD Chapman, and on and on.

Tell me you can't find some matches between those guys

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Originally Posted by Lyle

You people mention big heavyweights like we have ever had anything else.

Joe Louis ....not the biggest but certainly BIG for his day at 6'2 205
Sonny Liston 6'1 210-220
Muhamed Ali the biggest heavyweight of his era...even bigger than Foreman. 6'3-6'4 210-225 during his prime years
Larry Holmes 6'3-6'4 210-220 in his prime
Riddick Bowe 6'5 230
Lennox Lewis 6'5 250

It doesn't matter about the size. The division right now is in flux Valuev and Chagaev are off in their own little world fighting the chumps of the division when there is a guy who holds half the recognized world championship belts ready to give anything to get a shot at the other titles....only Vitali wants back in and HE wants a title too.

The problems with the division are:

#1 titles aren't being unified...we're going to have to wait almost another year for Wladimir to get a shot at anyone else with a title due to the mandatories and Vitali's comeback.

#2 The big fights aren't being made...there are interesting fights to be made but they aren't happening...Arreola-Witherspoon is a step in the right direction, let's see who Haye steps in with and what Sultan does in his return.

#3 The signature fighters of the division aren't consistent...Sam Peter for example....he's KO-ing Oleg Maskaev one day then he's fighting McCline and he's utter crap

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That's hardly like the giants of today, Lewis was boring to watch the only one you mention that is big and exciting for a period was Bowe and that was only really the trilogy with Holfield, 210lbs is almost a crusierweight and most of your list fought around that weight in their primes. Big for their time means absolutely nothing, they weren't 7ft and 300lbs

....only Valuev is 7 feet tall and 300 pounds....so your problem again is???



Most of the big guyss of today like to BOX because giving up their size advantage isn't worth their while. These guys fight smarter than the big guys of old and they should.


And this was boring to watch???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWCG1fYZGVg



There is a lot more to boxing than just the Mike Tyson's of the sport.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

....only Valuev is 7 feet tall and 300 pounds....so your problem again is???



Most of the big guyss of today like to BOX because giving up their size advantage isn't worth their while. These guys fight smarter than the big guys of old and they should.


And this was boring to watch???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWCG1fYZGVg


There is a lot more to boxing than just the Mike Tyson's of the sport.

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The average weight an height of a heavyweight in the top 10 is far more these days than when Ali, Louis, Marciano were around, well done on finding an interesting clip of Lennox, the knockout of Michael Grant was better but generally he was pretty dull to watch