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There's little doubt in my mind that Casamayor is a hall of famer, one of the most successful Cubans of all time, I really don't think there is an argument against there. They are generous as to who they let in, so Casamayor I really don't see how you don't let him in. I think he's one of the greats of the generation.
Seem's as though it has become so watered down over the years as far as guidelines and what exactley merits and defines a Hall of famer...Titles obtained/won & defended...Quality of Opposition faced and defeated as well as skill set...Over all contribution to the sport and effects on it's past,present & future ??? I have Never looked into the official guidelines given by the H.O.F??
If Barrys in then the rest can just walk right in and make themselves feel at home. :)
:lol:...True,and they will.I wish I was so concise ...;DQuote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
As for the article:
Casa - yes
Hatton - On the fence still
Gerry - On the fence still
Tarver - no
Ivan - On the fence still
I agree with Raskin on most thing here. Especially what he says about Gerry & Ivan.
Something to think about here about the Hall of Fame.
Here are some names of fighters who SHOULD be hall of fame but have not yet been inducted. Now IMO these fighters are head & shoulders above Gerry and they happen to be Asian.
I'll start of with some of Gerrys country men who are NOT in the Hall.
Ceferino Garcia & Luisito Espinoza.
Then you've got the rest of Asians who are still waiting in line themselves;
Jung Koo Chang, Chong Pal Park, Chartchai Chionoi, Ki Soo Kim, Myung Woo Yuh, Yoko Gushiken, Sot Chitalada, Hiroshi Kobayashi, Masao Ohba, Yoshio Shirai, Pone Kingpetch, Jiro Watanabe....
I can go on and on, my point here is that for Gerry to be in the Hall is possible but just look at that list I just put together of great Asian fighters who are NOT in yet.
I mean Masamori Tokuyama beat Gerry twice (I know one of the fights was close) but I would give Masamori more of a chance at Hall then Gerry now.
No Ponglashit? :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
;D
Tokuyama was a very good fighter. Very underrated. Espinoza was good to. But that chin was always his downfall. I remember Israel Contreras blitzed him in his own backyard. I don't think Espinoza is HOF material.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
I can just about Neg. Rep. you right about now... :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by SE7EN
;D No, sorry no PongsaShit.
Israel wasted no time in that fight, he measured Luisito really nice and the jab set up the whole thing for Israel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseTokuyama was a very good fighter. Very underrated. Espinoza was good to. But that chin was always his downfall. I remember Israel Contreras blitzed him in his own backyard. I don't think Espinoza is HOF material.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Well Luisito "might" not be HOF material but my point is that for me Gerrys got a lot of work to do if he want's to be HOF. Which is why I listed all these fighters....
But with that being said, you also gotta see his credentials, WBA Bantam champ 2 defenses, WBC Feather champ 7 defenses and facing opponents such as "Cobrita" Gonzalez, "Mantecas" Medina, Carlos Rios (who at that time was rated #8 in the world), & Kennedy McKinney.
While Gerrys credentials are: WBC Super Fly. champ 2 defenses, WBO Batam champ 1 defense. Opponents; Kawashima, Sor Vorapin, Jhonny.
Mick I've posted several times on this, I'll just drop a linkQuote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...ame-bound.html
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...about-him.html
The HOF is not just for boxing achievements, but ones effect on the boxing worl, its fans and his representation of the sport.
Ricardo Mayorga SHOULD be in there! He's a living legend in my book. I love that guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by p4pkingQuote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
Pacquiao and Barrera have far higher quality wins than Hatton though, it's not just about who they lost to.
If the hall of fame was about out and out quality im sure you could find a perfectly good argument to suggest someone like ricardo mayorga should be in there.
But its a combination of many different factors. 44-1 is more than enough to argue for hall of fame status, add to that the fact he is still unbeaten and untested at 140, won a world title in a division he wasnt comfortable in and has wins over greats like kostya tszyu and JLC.
I think Hatton's record except for Tszyu, Castillo, is only decent. Not trying to be an ass here but im not sure if i would have him in the HOF just because of his two wins over past there prime fighters. And to even suggest that Hatton should be ranked higher than Barrera or Pacquiao is pure madness. But like others have said if Bazza can get in there why not Hatton ??
How could you NOT see the absolute similarity between Tarver and Hatton's breakthrough wins?Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
As for the hall, both guys are about the sam IMO at th moment though there's time for both guys to make a statement still in their careers.
HOF is very difficult to decide, as the guys Mick mentioned which I've read about elsewhere where the Asian fighters have been largely ignored, and then guys with so-so records getting in setting a precedent for something like 50% of world beltholders ever getting in.
I don't believe HOF is on relative achievement alone, otherwise Bazzo would never be there, but there is a spot IMO for guys like Bazzo and Gatti due to their rather unique contributions (Gatti's wars and Barry's popularity transcending the religious barrier in N.I.)
Tarver beat some other contenders at 175 besides the wins over Johnson and Jones (whom he also lost to). Tarver probably beat more top 10 contenders than Hatton did.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
I probably wouldn't put Tarver in though.
I would rather see these guys get inducted into Canastota. They're all eligble as of now and are more deserving than the debates of recent/active fighters I often hear like Tarver, Gatti, etc..
Brian Mitchell
Esteban Dejesus
Marlon Starling
Donald Curry
Julian Jackson
Eddie Booker
Lloyd Marshall
Eddie Booker destroyed a prime/near-prime Archie Moore. He dropped him 5 times and Moore said it was the worst beating he took, and Booker was the best guy he faced along with Charley Burley. Booker beat two HOFers and a bunch of other contenders and quality fighters.
Lloyd Marshall beat like half a dozen Hall of Famers, including a beatdown of a bonafide ATG in Ezzard Charles whom he put down 8 times. He beat Burley. He beat Jake LaMotta.
Why aren't these guys in Canastota?
Gatti should not be in the HOF. Sure he was entertaining, but that was because 9 times out of 10 he was getting his face pounded in. The guy isn't 40 years old and has a face like Milton Burle.
When does that stop though? I mean it is fair to draw the line, say we made a mistake and start raising the standards again?Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick