Printable View
He had a good chin but not the heart to go along with it, you mention the fight with Ruddock, but he was beating the heck out of Ruddock. Until Ruddock landing a weird left hook as Tyson was coming in out of desperation, and even then Tyson didn't take that many hard shots, only few short uppercuts and a long right hand thats about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Rudduck always punched with brute force so taking shots from him was a sign of heart. It also told me his defensive discipline was not there and he was all but finished as the Tyson that first won the title.
I think the 2nd fight would be a better example because Tyson wasn't as sharp as the 1st fight, and Ruddock done alot better in the rematch. Hitting Tyson with very hard shots in the later rounds especially with the uppercuts, and Tyson had to dig deep in some parts of the fight. I had Tyson winning by 3 or 4 points if i remember rightly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Busted up Rudduck good, must have bruised his ribs and broke his jaw.
He broke two of his ribs i believe mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Trust me the Tyson that was the blazing champion from 86-89 would have annihilated Rudduck in 6 brutal rounds without taking any significant punches. He was that good.
That doesn't mean anything. Same can be said of Roy Jones Jr.Quote:
Originally Posted by lance Uppercut
In mike's prime he was never ever behind in a fight.
And most people feel he was mentally out of the fight game after the spinks fight as his jab and craft completely vanished after that fight as Teddy Atlas said "I don't think he threw one jab in the bruno fight"
Tyson's problem was all mental.
When he was younger and motivated if he ever faced a tough situation he overcame that. After the Spinks fight he had NOTHING left to prove and only was really fighting for money.. and ESPECIALLY when he came out of prison.
Tyson is someone who fell out of love with boxing in his younger years, but sadly could do nothing else. So the only way he could go was down.
granted he fought a weak heavyweight division but it doesn't take away from the fact he dominated that division. Can't punish someone for the era they fight in just the great things they did. And Tyson did great things, and is a great fighter.
Razor Ruddock when he sparred with Larry Holmes showed he had good boxing skills, good movement, good jab etc. If you see the footage he looks like a completely different fighter than the one you normally see. Don't know what when wrong but his offense was lazy, his defense was leaky, and he relied too much on the check left hook.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
But he did have a good chin and a big heart good heart, the knockdown he suffered against Bonecrusher Smith was brutal i can't believe he got up from that. I know you may disagree with this but i thought Mike Tyson in the 1st fight with Ruddock wasn't that far off a peak Mike Tyson, except his defense wern't as good because he relied too much on his power, and not enough on using his peek a boo defense to counter like he used to do.
I love Mike Tyson it is so sad how he wasted his whole life away. Great video i almost cried when i watched it.:eek: almost. lol
Someone once said 'You can take the kid outta the streets but you can't take the streets outta the kid' The phrase could have been invented to describe Tyson.
Teddy Atlas saw issues with the way he treated women from when he first when to the Catskills but they were ignored to re-surface later. Personally I don't think he was guilty of rape but there's no doubting his attitude towards women is neanderthal. Then there was the infamous spat with Mitch Green - what the hell was he doing on the streets of Harlem (i think it was) at silly o'clock in the morning getting himself into that situation.
In general if you take any kid from a poor background that has money and fame thrust upon them and something bad will happen. They start to think that the rules don't apply. Tyson was emotionally a child in mans world. Yes he brought a lot of it on himself but those that set his potential to be World Champion above everything else including his development as a person have to share some of the blame.
I agree about the tyson issues but the stuff about people from poor backgrounds is a bit generalised and judgemental. Tyson sure had/has issues that needed attention and it is sad that those who were around him seemed to not help him. However he was a grown man and capable of making his own choices, he just made some bad ones. i'm amazed that anyone could blow the kind of money he had though something like $800Mil gone. On the other point there would be plenty of examples of people coming from poor backgrounds and doing well. The mundines are an example here. Tony and Anthony have excelled at their sport and remained great role models for their people despite success and money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikersk
Don't get me wrong I did start it of by saying 'In general...' ;D
Reading it back it did sound a little judgemental.Wasn't meant to be - I was brought up in a poor council estate in the North East England and have nothing but the utmost respect for anyone who fights there way out of it either with their fists in the ring or with their brains out of it.
Yeah i could tell you wern't trying to be judgemental. You are probably right about it applying to Tyson though unfortunately, but with Tyson you get the impression it wouldn't have mattered where he grew up there is just something in him....
I don't know about that in part. Quick Tillis was just that- quick. He wasn't hurting Mike any and sometimes a fighter will sacrifice defense to get to his opponent, especially if he isn't in any real danger. I plain old just don't remember the Bonecrusher Smith fight so I can't comment on that, but we've all seen guys fight below their defensive capability and that's exactly what Tyson did with Tillis. I think had he fought either Holyfield or Lewis in HIS prime he would have beaten both simply because they were years away from their own primes. Lennox would have lost by KO simply because he couldn't have dealt with an offensive dynamo all over him and his own head wasn't as in the game as it should have been and Holyfield just didn't have the kind of power to make Mike respect him (and Mike wouldn't have made the mistake of thinking he was over-the-hill).Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethHe wasn't that much of a defensive genius guys like Bone Crusher Smith and Quick TIllis were able to him relatively easily even in his prime. Tyson was a great fighter, but we still have to question whether he would have beaten Holyfield or Lewis, He was mentally unsound regardless of who was coaching him, and I think if he got into tough territories like he did against Lewis or Holyfield he would have just given up on himself like he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master