Still doubting Berto?

I think he needs to settle down.Alot of entergy/Stamina burnt with jumping around,yelping and some real theatrics.His jab is solid and hand speed is undeniable but he has alot of refining to do.Also noticed alot of clinching when not so much was being put on him.A solid 12 rounds of experience under his belt but I honestly thought he would capitalize on his advantages more,go after the it more.No disrespect to all guts & glory Forbes,but he was a calculated measuring stick.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taeth

Lol Forbes didn't land that much at all, he did counter a few times, but you see what Forbes was able to do against Oscar, he was landing that jab consistenly he was landing more than one punch in his combinations consistently. Against Berto, he was landing a few counter shots early, but even then Berto's speed put him off balance so much most of them didn't land very hard.

1. Comparing Berto and Oscar's performances: I think Berto landed better, cleaner punches against Forbes. I think he "hurt" Forbes or got his attention more than Oscar did in their fight, and he definitely got hit less then Oscar.
2. The things Berto has consistently proven you/critics wrong: You said before the fight the only reason Berto would win would be outworking Forbes, and that Steve would send Berto to school in a boxing sense. Berto outboxed Forbes except for the second round. He threw better combinations he landed more punches, and he was better defensively. He jabbed well, he threw combinations well, he went to the body better than Forbes, and his uppercut landed all night. You are attributing all his success against Forbes due to size, but Andre showed good poise inside, he showed a good outside game, and I still think you are smoking something to get Forbes 4 rounds in that fight. He had the second round and thats it. If you throw away the bs compubox numbers Berto was outlanding him in every round, except the second. Of course Forbes will land a few counter shots, but he would against anyone coming forward, he is quick, experienced, and very skilled.

3. Berto's future: Maybe I am the only one of the few with the balls and foresight to invest in a fighter early,but Berto is, and has everything to be one of the best in the sport. He has speed unlike anyone except maybe Gamboa. He is hard to hit, and he hits hard. I respect what you say most of the time ICT, but I sense a geniune dislike of Berto so I am going totake everything you write with a grain of salt. There is no reason to dislike Berto, he is flashy, he is very nice young man, and he could be the next man to carry the sport.

---

Taeth i don't know where your getting that i said Forbes would send Berto to school boxing sense, infact i thought Berto would KO Forbes i was actually suprised at some of the success Forbes had. And im suprised he went the distance.

I don't mind investing in a fighter early, i think Roman Gonzalez, Abner Mares, Yuriokris Gamboa, are future top 10 P4P fighters. And again Taeth i don't dislike Andre Berto i have defended him in a few threads. I just want to see him fight a elite Welterweight before i make a real judgement about him.

Berto put in a good performance but it wasn't like he wasn't expected to win against the smaller Forbes. I think Forbes was very competitive with Berto until Berto upped his work and Forbes started to punch less and less.

If Berto beats Collazo or any of the top elite Welterweights then i'll jump on the Berto bandwagon. But until then he is still an unproven talented fighter IMO.

I still doubt Andre Berto i think had Forbes had good KO power it could have been a different fight i think vs a Mosely,Margarito or Cotto and he gets stopped.I don't doubt his skill i just don't think he has a world class chin but i could be wrong.

Id like to see him fight a Welter his size coming in to win.

Look i like Berto and i agree with Teath think he is something special. I dont agree with what you say about Mosley though he was pound for pound number one at one point by ring mag at least and be many others. He was unbeatable in my eyes at LW kinda like Roy Jones Jr was at SWM. But unlike Roy i thought Sugar Shane Mosley has fought harder competion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr140

Look i like Berto and i agree with Teath think he is something special. I dont agree with what you say about Mosley though he was pound for pound number one at one point by ring mag at least and be many others. He was unbeatable in my eyes at LW kinda like Roy Jones Jr was at SWM. But unlike Roy i thought Sugar Shane Mosley has fought harder competion.

---

Are you kidding me ? Shane Mosley's opposition at Lightweight was weak.

Shane Mosley i will out a doubt would pick over any lightweight if we are saying if they were to face one another or a vs you say.

Berto is a good talent but i don't see him being successful with the top welters like Williams, Magarito, Cotto, etc.

Berto showed he can Pitch well enough, but his biggest challenge is to see if he can Pitch and Catch over 12 rounds. Big difference from Catching shots from Forbes then Catching shots from Tall Paul or Margo. Boxing is about give and take. Dont see him beating Margo or Tall Paul. Only can find out in the ring so LETS GET IT ON. Prove me wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr140

Look i like Berto and i agree with Teath think he is something special. I dont agree with what you say about Mosley though he was pound for pound number one at one point by ring mag at least and be many others. He was unbeatable in my eyes at LW kinda like Roy Jones Jr was at SWM. But unlike Roy i thought Sugar Shane Mosley has fought harder competion.

---

Are you kidding me ? Shane Mosley's opposition at Lightweight was weak.

---

Kind of like Roy's was at LHW? :o Agreed that Shane was best at LW, and it was a relatively weak era. Roy was best at SMW, but he moved up anyway to a safer division. Every notice that that other than James Toney, Roy mostly managed (by luck or by pricing himself) out to avoid the biggest fights out there? It's sad, because he would have beaten Benn or Eubank, but they would have been real challenges and we never got to see it. Too bad Michael Nunn was an idiot and Steve Little had the night of his life. Hmmm. A tall southpaw who can punch...it still upsets me that fight never happened.

Shane moved up in weight to fight bigger names for bigger money and bigger challenge. He was also a true champion and defended belts in high risk fights - Forrest and more significantly, Winky Wright. Fighting Wright was a terrible business decision. At that time, he was coming off beating Oscar and he could have done what people do today, vacate the belts and made a bigger, safer fight. Taking his career as a whole, Shane took more risks and fought better competition.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RozzySean

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr140

Look i like Berto and i agree with Teath think he is something special. I dont agree with what you say about Mosley though he was pound for pound number one at one point by ring mag at least and be many others. He was unbeatable in my eyes at LW kinda like Roy Jones Jr was at SWM. But unlike Roy i thought Sugar Shane Mosley has fought harder competion.

---

Are you kidding me ? Shane Mosley's opposition at Lightweight was weak.

---

Kind of like Roy's was at LHW? :o Agreed that Shane was best at LW, and it was a relatively weak era. Roy was best at SMW, but he moved up anyway to a safer division. Every notice that that other than James Toney, Roy mostly managed (by luck or by pricing himself) out to avoid the biggest fights out there? It's sad, because he would have beaten Benn or Eubank, but they would have been real challenges and we never got to see it. Too bad Michael Nunn was an idiot and Steve Little had the night of his life. Hmmm. A tall southpaw who can punch...it still upsets me that fight never happened.

Shane moved up in weight to fight bigger names for bigger money and bigger challenge. He was also a true champion and defended belts in high risk fights - Forrest and more significantly, Winky Wright. Fighting Wright was a terrible business decision. At that time, he was coming off beating Oscar and he could have done what people do today, vacate the belts and made a bigger, safer fight. Taking his career as a whole, Shane took more risks and fought better competition.

---

Well Roy Jones did fight Montel Griffin x2, Mike McCallum, Virgil Hill, Antonio Tarver x3, Glen Johnson, Julio Cesar Gonzalez, Eric Harding, Reggie Johnson, all at Light Heavyweight which isn't bad at all. And certainly better than Shane Mosley's opposition at Lightweight John John Molina, Philip Holiday, Jesse James Leija, Golden Johnson.

Everyone laugh.....I think a peaking Stevie Johnston and Mosley at lightweight should have been made & would have been abit competitive,But yeah,Mosley takes it ;D

I think one thing that's easy to forget to factor in is his size. The guy sweats down majorly, probably as much as Paul Williams does, to get to welter. Look at that body- at only 25 it won't be able to stay in the division forever. He'll move up at least one division before 30.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Killface

I think one thing that's easy to forget to factor in is his size. The guy sweats down majorly, probably as much as Paul Williams does, to get to welter. Look at that body- at only 25 it won't be able to stay in the division forever. He'll move up at least one division before 30.

---

He's not tall though, only 5 ft 7 I believe. I imagine welter is his natural weight class.

I have doubts about him holding his own against the biggest guys at welter, if he moves up to face Daniel Santos, Joel Julio, James Kirkland and Alfredo Angulo I have to say I wouldn't fancy his chances much at all.

I'd fancy Santos, Kirkland and Angulo especially to all knock Berto out inside 7 rounds.

Just rewatching it for 3rd time.Why all of the waiting around and holding late,I just dont get it.He really was looking to sharpshoot in spots and .....I dont know,nit picking a bit but he really seemed to be caught up in the moment and quite honestly,I think he could have done some serious damage had he pushed the issue and made a huge statement.Maybe it was the big stage but he seemed very uncertain in between rounds.....time will tell?