Printable View
Hopkins getting tired can be a big issue, but just a few more punches here and there is enough to persuade the panel imo. Plus, with 3 different judges than before, he could very possibly fight the same fight as before and eek a decision in HIS favor. His style is pretty dependant on what type of judge is at ringside.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
The thing with Calzaghe is though he has ALWAYS risen to the challenge and coped with adversity.
It's all very well to state categorically that Hopkins, Jones, Toney etc in their primes would have dominated him or beat him easily based on Joes flaws, but the think that has to be taken into account is that when Joe has had a flaw exposed, i.e dropped against Hopkins, Jones and Mitchell, or rocked by a Kessler uppercut, he's ALWAYS found another level and then pretty much gone on to either dominate the rest of the fight, or else clearly take over.
So whose to say that if Toney kept countering him he wouldn't be able to rise to another level, change his gameplan and a find a way to overcome that obstacle?
That's not me saying he would do that, I'm just saying that we cannot say that he wouldn't.
We have all seen Hopkins, Jones and Toney fall short, we have never seen Calzaghe fall short.
So you can't just write him off as having no chance, becuase it's just not realistic.
I can't see any fighter having an easy time with a prime Calzaghe.
The guy just doesn't know how to lose, and has a warriors instinct. He actually has more of a winning mentality than Jones, Toney and Hopkins imo. When push comes to shove in a fight all three of those guys have lost fights becuase they didn't push and weren't prepared to risk it all.
Hopkins, Jones and Toney at the end of the day have all been in fights where they didn't win because they were not prepared to risk it all.
Hopkins in both fights against Taylor, also against Calzaghe
Jones against Tarver in the third fight
Toney in various fights throughout his career when he's been lackluster and lost uninspired decisions.
Joe however clearly has a mindset where he'd rather get sparked in a fight than not give everything. He's defiant, he's always a 100% relentless come forward fighter. He always finds another level and never settles in a fight, he keeps going to win regardless.
A good analogy I think would be gambling.
Hopkins, Jones, Toney are all to a greater or lesser extent hedgebetters, they bet carefully and they would never stick all their chips on the table and risk losing it all.
Calzaghe is like the guy who goes into a casino and if he's on a losing run will just say 'right I'm sticking everything red next time, my house my car everything.
This kind of mentality he has would I think inevitebaly lead to him lucking out at some time, and getting ko'd but it would also win him fights that in the same situation a Hopkins, Toney or Jones would settle to lose.
That's why he's a great fighter imo. He's prepared to take risks in the ring and really go out on his shield. Most fighters in reality are not prepared to always take it that far.
Joe Calzaghe hasn't always been able to adapt. As soon as Robin Reid forced Joe Calzaghe on the backfoot he never adapted and he couldn't avoid the right hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I don't care what anyone says i still say Robin Reid beat Joe Calzaghe, the punchstats were almost dead even. Except Robin Reid was landing the much more hurtful shots, he was actually rocking Joe Calzaghe's head back which no other Joe Calzaghe opponent has ever done.
I actually don't think Joe Calzaghe can adapt to rough fighters, thats why he struggled in the Bika, Salem, Reid, fights.
I do agree with your other comments though Joe Calzaghe is a great fighter, and is a very competitive person and he doesn't know the word lose.
Also. When hopkins put calzaghe down calzaghe was determined, but his flaws remained the same. I guess what I'm hinting at is. If someone takes advantage of a flaw Joe has, he doesn't go to plan B and stop doing what it is that's geting him beaten. His volume increases but he never corrects his flaws.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBJoe Calzaghe hasn't always been able to adapt. As soon as Robin Reid forced Joe Calzaghe on the backfoot he never adapted and he couldn't avoid the right hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I don't care what anyone says i still say Robin Reid beat Joe Calzaghe, the punchstats were almost dead even. Except Robin Reid was landing the much more hurtful shots, he was actually rocking Joe Calzaghe's head back which no other Joe Calzaghe opponent has ever done.
I actually don't think Joe Calzaghe can adapt to rough fighters, thats why he struggled in the Bika, Salem, Reid, fights.
I do agree with your other comments though Joe Calzaghe is a great fighter, and is a very competitive person and he doesn't know the word lose.
I think someone like Toney would have loved that. Toneys best counter punch is that right after all. He loves to throw it after slipping a straight or win there is a hole in someones defense during a flurry. I think Calzaghe would have been tailor made for Toney.
I see him giving Roy a ton of fights though actually.
Jones dropped Calzaghe in the 1st and he was hurt a prime Jones would have destroyed him i understand your a Calzaghe fan nothing wrong with that each to there own and that but your getting a little carried away.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusdarkusQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBUhh no they all would still beat Joe Calzaghe at there best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
Dont be silly.
Possibly but we dont know thatQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBUhh no they all would still beat Joe Calzaghe at there best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
If thats the case then we have to ask would Jones have beaten Toney or Hopkins at their best etc . Its very rare that the best fight the best in boxing cuz when 1 guy loses its "oh he was past it "
All we KNOW is that Joe beat the American legends and did it in their back yard
I love how people are saying 'he was so open it was disgusting'
You really think he would have done that if he was worried about what was coming back at him?
He does that to set traps almost. You see Roy doing it aswell....except he obviously looks a little different. Roy did on numerous occassions last night and Joe backed off because he was expecting a right hand from Roy.
1. Roy always fights with his hands low.Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
2. Joe being open virtually everytime he throws a combo are the "openings" im talking about.
Ok my mistake. I guess the sheer volume makes it difficult to comeback with anything sustainable. Maybe the odd counter punch....like Jones did.Quote:
Originally Posted by intoccabile1. Roy always fights with his hands low.Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
2. Joe being open virtually everytime he throws a combo are the "openings" im talking about.
I thought you was going on about how he was practically standing right infront of him with his hands low when he wasn't throwing. Like he was goading Jones in.
Nah.. alot of fighters do that. realistically though when they do that so close to their opponent (Joe did it at arms length), they should pay. Remember what happened to Nate Campbell? Or when Winky got Rocked by doing it to Mosely?Quote:
Originally Posted by onoOk my mistake. I guess the sheer volume makes it difficult to comeback with anything sustainable. Maybe the odd counter punch....like Jones did.Quote:
Originally Posted by intoccabile1. Roy always fights with his hands low.Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
2. Joe being open virtually everytime he throws a combo are the "openings" im talking about.
I thought you was going on about how he was practically standing right infront of him with his hands low when he wasn't throwing. Like he was goading Jones in.
Jones surely should have taken advantage of those openings that Calzaghe purposely gave him. But the ones I'm referring to are when he's punching. Definitely hard to counter punches of that volume, yes. But it's hard when they hurt. Calzaghe doesn't have crazy power so i can't see why people are reluctant to take advantage.
This is why i said someone like toney would do great. Hopkins is a slip/move/grab kinda guy. Roy is a Block/Grab kind of guy.. and sometimes he doesn't move at all.
Toney has always been a Slip/Roll/Counter kind of guy. Which imo is what handles Joes volume. SOmeone who doesn't slip and move, but slips and rolls. Thats how you counter punch against volume.
But everyone has there weaknesses. Styles make fights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by intoccabileNah.. alot of fighters do that. realistically though when they do that so close to their opponent (Joe did it at arms length), they should pay. Remember what happened to Nate Campbell? Or when Winky got Rocked by doing it to Mosely?Quote:
Originally Posted by onoOk my mistake. I guess the sheer volume makes it difficult to comeback with anything sustainable. Maybe the odd counter punch....like Jones did.Quote:
Originally Posted by intoccabile
I thought you was going on about how he was practically standing right infront of him with his hands low when he wasn't throwing. Like he was goading Jones in.
Jones surely should have taken advantage of those openings that Calzaghe purposely gave him. But the ones I'm referring to are when he's punching. Definitely hard to counter punches of that volume, yes. But it's hard when they hurt. Calzaghe doesn't have crazy power so i can't see why people are reluctant to take advantage.
This is why i said someone like toney would do great. Hopkins is a slip/move/grab kinda guy. Roy is a Block/Grab kind of guy.. and sometimes he doesn't move at all.
Toney has always been a Slip/Roll/Counter kind of guy. Which imo is what handles Joes volume. SOmeone who doesn't slip and move, but slips and rolls. Thats how you counter punch against volume.
But everyone has there weaknesses. Styles make fights.
Roy can answer that for you.
"Those pitty pat punches he throws were a little harder than I thought." Roy Jones
;)
Key word. ."crazy" power.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterQuote:
Originally Posted by intoccabileNah.. alot of fighters do that. realistically though when they do that so close to their opponent (Joe did it at arms length), they should pay. Remember what happened to Nate Campbell? Or when Winky got Rocked by doing it to Mosely?Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Jones surely should have taken advantage of those openings that Calzaghe purposely gave him. But the ones I'm referring to are when he's punching. Definitely hard to counter punches of that volume, yes. But it's hard when they hurt. Calzaghe doesn't have crazy power so i can't see why people are reluctant to take advantage.
This is why i said someone like toney would do great. Hopkins is a slip/move/grab kinda guy. Roy is a Block/Grab kind of guy.. and sometimes he doesn't move at all.
Toney has always been a Slip/Roll/Counter kind of guy. Which imo is what handles Joes volume. SOmeone who doesn't slip and move, but slips and rolls. Thats how you counter punch against volume.
But everyone has there weaknesses. Styles make fights.
Roy can answer that for you.
"Those pitty pat punches he throws were a little harder than I thought." Roy Jones
;)
He obviously does damage if he busts peoples face up, lol.
But it's nothing alot of his competition hasn't felt more of before.