Re: Will Cotto Be The Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
leftylee
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
I hear what your saying, but he didnt get KO'd he got beaten into submission, he didnt quit on his stool, he took knee's because it was to much for him to take.. I hope he is the same, but give me a past example of a fighter of Cotto's caliber that was beaten up that badly, and came back like he never missed a tick and was restored to greatness
I actually didn't think the KO was that bad.
I mean he completely domianted the first half.
Lefty watch it again he got busted up pretty bad at the end, he was cut swollen and bleeding profusely along with a broken nose... Like I said in my 1st post the irony is he was well on his way to cruising to a UD, Marg was denting him up along the way and Cotto showed toughness, but at the end he got the fighter beaten out of him
I know he got busted up a little, but I can't call it devastating. It's not like he was floored multiple times and took massive shots.
Re: Will Cotto Be The Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
I hear what your saying, but he didnt get KO'd he got beaten into submission, he didnt quit on his stool, he took knee's because it was to much for him to take.. I hope he is the same, but give me a past example of a fighter of Cotto's caliber that was beaten up that badly, and came back like he never missed a tick and was restored to greatness
Cotto quitting is a myth IMO. He was moments away from being stopped, but he didn't outright quit. He took two knee's because of the pounding he was taking, but after the 2nd one, he stood up within a few seconds and that's when his corner threw in the towel and entered the ring. He was beaten and exhausted in that last round, but he was still landing some good shots and I dispute the notion that he quit.
Here's the HBO version of rounds 10 + 11.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIhqC...eature=related
Re: Will Cotto Be The Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Ds Next Baby Mama
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
I hear what your saying, but he didnt get KO'd he got beaten into submission, he didnt quit on his stool, he took knee's because it was to much for him to take.. I hope he is the same, but give me a past example of a fighter of Cotto's caliber that was beaten up that badly, and came back like he never missed a tick and was restored to greatness
There's a first time for everything, and Cotto's just the guy that will prove you wrong! ;) ;D
I really hope so because Cotto is a good guy who is great for the sport
Re: Will Cotto Be The Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
I hear what your saying, but he didnt get KO'd he got beaten into submission, he didnt quit on his stool, he took knee's because it was to much for him to take.. I hope he is the same, but give me a past example of a fighter of Cotto's caliber that was beaten up that badly, and came back like he never missed a tick and was restored to greatness
Cotto quitting is a myth IMO. He was moments away from being stopped, but he didn't outright quit. He took two knee's because of the pounding he was taking, but after the 2nd one, he stood up within a few seconds and that's when his corner threw in the towel and entered the ring. He was beaten and exhausted in that last round, but he was still landing some good shots and I dispute the notion that he quit.
Here's the HBO version of rounds 10 + 11.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIhqC...eature=related
Call it what you want dude, he backed into the last corner without a punch landed and slumped in it, your a pretty good dude and as sound as they get around here, but if thats not quitting man I dont know what is... Like I said there is no shame in that because there is a bigger picture for his life and family, im only concerned of the effects on his career moving forward and can he regain the same shine
Re: Will Cotto Be The Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by
leftylee
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
leftylee
I actually didn't think the KO was that bad.
I mean he completely domianted the first half.
Lefty watch it again he got busted up pretty bad at the end, he was cut swollen and bleeding profusely along with a broken nose... Like I said in my 1st post the irony is he was well on his way to cruising to a UD, Marg was denting him up along the way and Cotto showed toughness, but at the end he got the fighter beaten out of him
I know he got busted up a little, but I can't call it devastating. It's not like he was floored multiple times and took massive shots.
I disagree with you and thats alright, but that to me is worse then by that logic , because he folded that easy
Re: Will Cotto Be The Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
I hear what your saying, but he didnt get KO'd he got beaten into submission, he didnt quit on his stool, he took knee's because it was to much for him to take.. I hope he is the same, but give me a past example of a fighter of Cotto's caliber that was beaten up that badly, and came back like he never missed a tick and was restored to greatness
Cotto quitting is a myth IMO. He was moments away from being stopped, but he didn't outright quit. He took two knee's because of the pounding he was taking, but after the 2nd one, he stood up within a few seconds and that's when his corner threw in the towel and entered the ring. He was beaten and exhausted in that last round, but he was still landing some good shots and I dispute the notion that he quit.
Here's the HBO version of rounds 10 + 11.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIhqC...eature=related
Call it what you want dude, he backed into the last corner without a punch landed and slumped in it, your a pretty good dude and as sound as they get around here, but
if thats not quitting man I dont know what is... Like I said there is no shame in that because there is a bigger picture for his life and family, im only concerned of the effects on his career moving forward and can he regain the same shine
So you are saying Cotto and Sam Peter (Against Vitali) done EXACTLY the same thing ?
Re: Will Cotto Be The Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
I hear what your saying, but he didnt get KO'd he got beaten into submission, he didnt quit on his stool, he took knee's because it was to much for him to take.. I hope he is the same, but give me a past example of a fighter of Cotto's caliber that was beaten up that badly, and came back like he never missed a tick and was restored to greatness
Cotto quitting is a myth IMO. He was moments away from being stopped, but he didn't outright quit. He took two knee's because of the pounding he was taking, but after the 2nd one, he stood up within a few seconds and that's when his corner threw in the towel and entered the ring. He was beaten and exhausted in that last round, but he was still landing some good shots and I dispute the notion that he quit.
Here's the HBO version of rounds 10 + 11.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIhqC...eature=related
Call it what you want dude, he backed into the last corner without a punch landed and slumped in it, your a pretty good dude and as sound as they get around here, but if thats not quitting man I dont know what is... Like I said there is no shame in that because there is a bigger picture for his life and family, im only concerned of the effects on his career moving forward and can he regain the same shine
He was hurt and if he didn't take a knee he was going to be KO'd. I believe he knew he was done, but he still took the knee to try and buy some time. For me quitting would've been if he looked at the ref and shook his head or indicated he did not want to continue before his corner entered the ring. If he was quitting, he wouldn't have gotten up, he would've stayed down. However, he was on his feet before the corner stopped it.
Quitting is saying you don't want to continue, getting up knowing you're about to be stopped is not quitting. I don't see it. He was beaten, but he never quit.
Re: Will Cotto Be The Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Cotto quitting is a myth IMO. He was moments away from being stopped, but he didn't outright quit. He took two knee's because of the pounding he was taking, but after the 2nd one, he stood up within a few seconds and that's when his corner threw in the towel and entered the ring. He was beaten and exhausted in that last round, but he was still landing some good shots and I dispute the notion that he quit.
Here's the HBO version of rounds 10 + 11.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIhqC...eature=related
Call it what you want dude, he backed into the last corner without a punch landed and slumped in it, your a pretty good dude and as sound as they get around here, but if thats not quitting man I dont know what is... Like I said there is no shame in that because there is a bigger picture for his life and family, im only concerned of the effects on his career moving forward and can he regain the same shine
He was hurt and if he didn't take a knee he was going to be KO'd. I believe he knew he was done, but he still took the knee to try and buy some time. For me quitting would've been if he looked at the ref and shook his head or indicated he did not want to continue before his corner entered the ring. If he was quitting, he wouldn't have gotten up, he would've stayed down. However, he was on his feet before the corner stopped it.
Quitting is saying you don't want to continue, getting up knowing you're about to be stopped is not quitting. I don't see it. He was beaten, but he never quit.
I just had my roomate that does not follow boxing at all and isint biased either way, watch the clip asked her what she saw?? her words were after him slumping in the corner the 2nd time after backing the entire length of the ring was he was getting the shit beaten out of him and just Quit..
Thats not the arguement per se, its if the effects of this will resonate negatively toward his career moving forward.. Its if this was a case of mental anguish that will haunt him amidst another ring war
Re: Will Cotto Be The Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Call it what you want dude, he backed into the last corner without a punch landed and slumped in it, your a pretty good dude and as sound as they get around here, but if thats not quitting man I dont know what is... Like I said there is no shame in that because there is a bigger picture for his life and family, im only concerned of the effects on his career moving forward and can he regain the same shine
He was hurt and if he didn't take a knee he was going to be KO'd. I believe he knew he was done, but he still took the knee to try and buy some time. For me quitting would've been if he looked at the ref and shook his head or indicated he did not want to continue before his corner entered the ring. If he was quitting, he wouldn't have gotten up, he would've stayed down. However, he was on his feet before the corner stopped it.
Quitting is saying you don't want to continue, getting up knowing you're about to be stopped is not quitting. I don't see it. He was beaten, but he never quit.
I just had my roomate that does not follow boxing at all and isint biased either way, watch the clip asked her what she saw?? her words were after him slumping in the corner the 2nd time after backing the entire length of the ring was he was getting the shit beaten out of him and just Quit..
Thats not the arguement per se, its if the effects of this will resonate negatively toward his career moving forward.. Its if this was a case of mental anguish that will haunt him amidst another ring war
Plenty of boxers have taken knees without quitting though. I don't think anything will change my mind on this, I do not believe he quit. He lost, he was beaten, but he never quit. It's clear to me he was up and ready to get stopped, but his corner entered the ring and stopped it. Rightly so.
Re: Will Cotto Be The Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
He was hurt and if he didn't take a knee he was going to be KO'd. I believe he knew he was done, but he still took the knee to try and buy some time. For me quitting would've been if he looked at the ref and shook his head or indicated he did not want to continue before his corner entered the ring. If he was quitting, he wouldn't have gotten up, he would've stayed down. However, he was on his feet before the corner stopped it.
Quitting is saying you don't want to continue, getting up knowing you're about to be stopped is not quitting. I don't see it. He was beaten, but he never quit.
I just had my roomate that does not follow boxing at all and isint biased either way, watch the clip asked her what she saw?? her words were after him slumping in the corner the 2nd time after backing the entire length of the ring was he was getting the shit beaten out of him and just Quit..
Thats not the arguement per se, its if the effects of this will resonate negatively toward his career moving forward.. Its if this was a case of mental anguish that will haunt him amidst another ring war
Plenty of boxers have taken knees without quitting though. I don't think anything will change my mind on this, I do not believe he quit. He lost, he was beaten, but he never quit. It's clear to me he was up and ready to get stopped, but his corner entered the ring and stopped it. Rightly so.
I would agree with you on the 1st KD and if that was the end than you make all the sense in the world, but the fact that he went from corner to corner without attempting a punch for 20sec and dropped himself in the corner told me he didnt want anymore.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one
Re: Will Cotto Be The Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
I just had my roomate that does not follow boxing at all and isint biased either way, watch the clip asked her what she saw?? her words were after him slumping in the corner the 2nd time after backing the entire length of the ring was he was getting the shit beaten out of him and just Quit..
Thats not the arguement per se, its if the effects of this will resonate negatively toward his career moving forward.. Its if this was a case of mental anguish that will haunt him amidst another ring war
Plenty of boxers have taken knees without quitting though. I don't think anything will change my mind on this, I do not believe he quit. He lost, he was beaten, but he never quit. It's clear to me he was up and ready to get stopped, but his corner entered the ring and stopped it. Rightly so.
I would agree with you on the 1st KD and if that was the end than you make all the sense in the world, but the fact that he went from corner to corner without attempting a punch for 20sec and dropped himself in the corner told me he didnt want anymore.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one
I agree he didn't want anymore, however after the 2nd KD he got to his feet ready to fight on with what little he had left.
I don't think he was able to throw a punch after the 1st KD, but he still didn't quit. He retreated across the ring and only took another knee when he ran out of room to run. Yet he still rose to his feet after the count was begun, thereby he did not quit. If he quit, why didn't he stay down or at least indicate to the ref that he wanted no more? He had no idea when he rose to his feet that his corner was going to stop it.
His corner did the right thing by waving the towel and stepping into the ring, and Cotto didn't seem to mind that it was stopped. Maybe to you this argument seems like splitting hairs, but, to me, what happened was a lot different than him quitting.
You're right though, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Re: Will Cotto Be The Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Plenty of boxers have taken knees without quitting though. I don't think anything will change my mind on this, I do not believe he quit. He lost, he was beaten, but he never quit. It's clear to me he was up and ready to get stopped, but his corner entered the ring and stopped it. Rightly so.
I would agree with you on the 1st KD and if that was the end than you make all the sense in the world, but the fact that he went from corner to corner without attempting a punch for 20sec and dropped himself in the corner told me he didnt want anymore.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one
I agree he didn't want anymore, however after the 2nd KD he got to his feet ready to fight on with what little he had left.
I don't think he was able to throw a punch after the 1st KD, but he still didn't quit. He retreated across the ring and only took another knee when he ran out of room to run. Yet he still rose to his feet after the count was begun, thereby he did not quit. If he quit, why didn't he stay down or at least indicate to the ref that he wanted no more? He had no idea when he rose to his feet that his corner was going to stop it.
His corner did the right thing by waving the towel and stepping into the ring, and Cotto didn't seem to mind that it was stopped. Maybe to you this argument seems like splitting hairs, but, to me, what happened was a lot different than him quitting.
You're right though, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Cool with me man, again which brings me to my original point, does all that prove to be fracturing moving forward for Miguel Cotto?
Re: Will Cotto Be The Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
I would agree with you on the 1st KD and if that was the end than you make all the sense in the world, but the fact that he went from corner to corner without attempting a punch for 20sec and dropped himself in the corner told me he didnt want anymore.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one
I agree he didn't want anymore, however after the 2nd KD he got to his feet ready to fight on with what little he had left.
I don't think he was able to throw a punch after the 1st KD, but he still didn't quit. He retreated across the ring and only took another knee when he ran out of room to run. Yet he still rose to his feet after the count was begun, thereby he did not quit. If he quit, why didn't he stay down or at least indicate to the ref that he wanted no more? He had no idea when he rose to his feet that his corner was going to stop it.
His corner did the right thing by waving the towel and stepping into the ring, and Cotto didn't seem to mind that it was stopped. Maybe to you this argument seems like splitting hairs, but, to me, what happened was a lot different than him quitting.
You're right though, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Cool with me man, again which brings me to my original point, does all that prove to be fracturing moving forward for Miguel Cotto?
Maybe. Like I said before, I think his determination to fight Margarito again appears to show that he has not been damaged mentally, but if there are any scars, they'll show themselves during the fight when Margarito does exactly what he did last time. I guess my answer is we won't know until the fight.
Re: Will Cotto Be The Same
Sorry CFH but i have to agree with JT here, i've seen Amateur fights live where i've seen a few boxers go to a knee up close. And its for certain a sign of quitting, now im not calling Miguel Cotto a quitter here.
But when you go down on one knee your trying to look for an easy way out, from the punishment. Which is obviously a natural human survival instinct, but its still a sign of quitting.
When Miguel Cotto got up from the 2nd knockdown he was looking at his corner, obviously hinting that he has had enough.
Re: Will Cotto Be The Same
Quote:
Originally Posted by
leftylee number 1 groupie
Sorry CFH but i have to agree with JT here, i've seen Amateur fights live and i've seen a few boxers go to a knee up close. And its for certain a sign of quitting, now im not calling Miguel Cotto a quitter here.
But when you go down on one knee your trying to look for an easy way out, from the punishment. Which is obviously a natural human survival instinct, but its still a sign of quitting.
Kind of like what Gary Lockett done then ?
