Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Fenster is right the Middleweight division at that time, was no real better than the Super Middleweight division.
Its a shame Bernard Hopkins couldn't get fights with some of the best Middleweights of the early 90s like Mike McCallum, James Toney, Julian Jackson, Gerald McClellan, Steve Collins.
I think Bernard Hopkins missed out on a great opportunity with all those names. But then again maybe not because i don't think a raw Bernard Hopkins could beat James Toney, Mike McCallum, Julian Jackson, Gerald McClellan. And even Steve Collins would be a very rough night for him.
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
The only instance I can perceive for talking about what a fighter didn't do was in the case of Salvador Sanchez.
In the case of Joe Calzaghe, he had a full career, why talk about what he didn't, should have or could have done?
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
The only instance I can perceive for talking about what a fighter didn't do was in the case of Salvador Sanchez.
In the case of Joe Calzaghe, he had a full career, why talk about what he didn't, should have or could have done?
Well said Alan ;D
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mrodub
Can you guys give me your opions and help settle an argument
I am debating with someone who believes that calzaghe did not go to the us in his prime thus avoiding b hop and RJJ in there prime what are your opinions please
RJJ wouldnt leave america after what happened in the olympics and as for Hopkins he took 3 attempts to win the middleweight title and defended against blown up welterweights.
Calzaghe's beaten everyone he's boxed. Something RJJ or bhop have not.
Theres no point to this thread.
CALZAGHES the man
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mrodub
Can you guys give me your opions and help settle an argument
I am debating with someone who believes that calzaghe did not go to the us in his prime thus avoiding b hop and RJJ in there prime what are your opinions please
Just use the Hopkins doubling his purse from 3 to 6 million argument. Calzaghe tried to make the fight but he wasn't interested. Nothing you can do if the other guy doesn't want to fight you. ;)
Anyway, as sonny said, Calzaghe was a nobody back then. Roy could fight far easier guys for probably the same money he would have got for Calzaghe. So why fight him?
Brilliantly simple & accurate post that answers the question asked .......
"THREAD OVER :lolololol:"
:coolclick:..................................:cool click:
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CGM
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Just use the Hopkins doubling his purse from 3 to 6 million argument. Calzaghe tried to make the fight but he wasn't interested. Nothing you can do if the other guy doesn't want to fight you. ;)
Anyway, as sonny said, Calzaghe was a nobody back then. Roy could fight far easier guys for probably the same money he would have got for Calzaghe. So why fight him?
BHOP probably didn't want to move up to SMW to fight a nobody. Why bother? Middleweight was the better division. BUt when the time came BHOP was ready to fight. The irony for BHOP is, back in the day his superiority over Calzaghe would be definite, IMO.
Don't think so. There were no names at middleweight either. It took Trinidad moving up to give Hopkins a BIG NAME fight. After that (which is when the Calzaghe offer was made) he fought no-names like Hakkar, and Robert Allen for the 50th time, before little Oscar obliged him with a big payday.
BOTH are probably very pleased the way things turned out (the fight not happening in 2002). When they finally fought they were both much bigger names.. earning much more dough ;)
OK, fair enough. But the point remains that there was little motivation to move up to SMW. Better to stick around and unite MW.
IMO the Hopkins of ten years ago was a much better fighter than he is now, he had better physical tools, and more than enough savvy to take out calzaghe. Waiting all this time tended to equalize the two, and maybe tip a bit in Calzaghe's favour.
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gudnite vienna
still think he'll have a couple more fights... If he beats Dawson and then Froch, he will of beaten two prime world champions, if froch wins that is...
But if he would of gone over to the states years ago he could of made himself one of the biggest stars in boxing...
A rematch with Kessler and Froch or Dawson, then we can start talking legacy.
I hope he does exactly that
Not all of this is Joe's fault or even Warrens(but more Warren then Joe), but right now it stands that he's got a win over a clearly spent Jones, a "win"(haha) over a Hopkins in his 40's, a win over an injured Kessler,and two wins against guys who just got sparked badly.
This does not a legacy make, he torches Dawson or Froch,and rematches a healthy Kessler that has both hands,we're having a totally different discussion,and nobody will care about those earlier fights.
So he needs to rematch a guy he's already comfortably beaten then fight either an unproven contender or an unproven champion who just about managed to beat Glen Johnson to have a legacy?
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gudnite vienna
still think he'll have a couple more fights... If he beats Dawson and then Froch, he will of beaten two prime world champions, if froch wins that is...
But if he would of gone over to the states years ago he could of made himself one of the biggest stars in boxing...
A rematch with Kessler and Froch or Dawson, then we can start talking legacy.
I hope he does exactly that
Not all of this is Joe's fault or even Warrens(but more Warren then Joe), but right now it stands that he's got a win over a clearly spent Jones, a "win"(haha) over a Hopkins in his 40's, a win over an injured Kessler,and two wins against guys who just got sparked badly.
This does not a legacy make, he torches Dawson or Froch,and rematches a healthy Kessler that has both hands,we're having a totally different discussion,and nobody will care about those earlier fights.
So he needs to rematch a guy he's already comfortably beaten then fight either an unproven contender or an unproven champion who just about managed to beat Glen Johnson to have a legacy?
He fought a tight fight,against a guy with only one hand,yeah I think that should be a rematch
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
A rematch with Kessler and Froch or Dawson, then we can start talking legacy.
I hope he does exactly that
Not all of this is Joe's fault or even Warrens(but more Warren then Joe), but right now it stands that he's got a win over a clearly spent Jones, a "win"(haha) over a Hopkins in his 40's, a win over an injured Kessler,and two wins against guys who just got sparked badly.
This does not a legacy make, he torches Dawson or Froch,and rematches a healthy Kessler that has both hands,we're having a totally different discussion,and nobody will care about those earlier fights.
So he needs to rematch a guy he's already comfortably beaten then fight either an unproven contender or an unproven champion who just about managed to beat Glen Johnson to have a legacy?
He fought a tight fight,against a guy with only one hand,yeah I think that should be a rematch
He had a bad hand in the same way that Pavlik had the flu the day before Hopkins beat him. Just two losers making excuses for losing.
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
A rematch with Kessler and Froch or Dawson, then we can start talking legacy.
I hope he does exactly that
Not all of this is Joe's fault or even Warrens(but more Warren then Joe), but right now it stands that he's got a win over a clearly spent Jones, a "win"(haha) over a Hopkins in his 40's, a win over an injured Kessler,and two wins against guys who just got sparked badly.
This does not a legacy make, he torches Dawson or Froch,and rematches a healthy Kessler that has both hands,we're having a totally different discussion,and nobody will care about those earlier fights.
So he needs to rematch a guy he's already comfortably beaten then fight either an unproven contender or an unproven champion who just about managed to beat Glen Johnson to have a legacy?
He fought a tight fight,against a guy with only one hand,yeah I think that should be a rematch
a guy with one hand? seemed to me he could throw pretty good bombs of uppercuts...
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SEANIE
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mrodub
Can you guys give me your opions and help settle an argument
I am debating with someone who believes that calzaghe did not go to the us in his prime thus avoiding b hop and RJJ in there prime what are your opinions please
RJJ wouldnt leave america after what happened in the olympics and as for Hopkins he took 3 attempts to win the middleweight title and defended against blown up welterweights.
Calzaghe's beaten everyone he's boxed. Something RJJ or bhop have not.
Theres no point to this thread.
CALZAGHES the man
The point to this thread was not to determine weather calzaghe is the man nor was it a comparison to b hop or RJJ, it was to help settle a debate and get people opinions on weather he should have gone to the states earlier or not, so if you feel there is no point to the thread dont read it then ok
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
A rematch with Kessler and Froch or Dawson, then we can start talking legacy.
I hope he does exactly that
Not all of this is Joe's fault or even Warrens(but more Warren then Joe), but right now it stands that he's got a win over a clearly spent Jones, a "win"(haha) over a Hopkins in his 40's, a win over an injured Kessler,and two wins against guys who just got sparked badly.
This does not a legacy make, he torches Dawson or Froch,and rematches a healthy Kessler that has both hands,we're having a totally different discussion,and nobody will care about those earlier fights.
So he needs to rematch a guy he's already comfortably beaten then fight either an unproven contender or an unproven champion who just about managed to beat Glen Johnson to have a legacy?
He fought a tight fight,against a guy with only one hand,yeah I think that should be a rematch
Joe has had to do that & on numerous occasions too, has he has always still come thru to deliver the goods .... hands damaged or not...
Its a part of the make up that creates a champion & assists them when staying a champion at the top level,
Ya take ya fight, Ya take ya chance....If Kess's hand was damaged only he knows the true extent & wheter he should fight or not....
But nobody put a gun to his head to make him fight JC, he chose to do that ... so he must have fancied it enough to get in the ring & go for it, which he did in a decent fight....
But he lost to JC & lost fairly, he had his chance....There are lots of defeated fighters who fought good fights for titles who would want re matches & for obvious & various reasons...
Ya could end up saying then that anyone who goes the distance can have or create a reason or argument for both losing & wanting a re match..
You can make a list of re matches for any successful champion, most on there hit list would want another crack, be it for redemption, pride, money or whatever...
But the champion doesnt have to chase re matches ...... Not until he is defeated at least, then he goes on the list with all the others as WANTING TO BE A CHAMPION
:badass::badass::badass:
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Last time i checked...the MAJORITY of big fights and big time fighters fight in the states (and i don't say that trying to be nationalistic...just a clear fact). So i have never given much credence to the argument that the reason prime Jones vs. Calzaghe didn't happen years ago...was Roys fault. He was the biggest star in boxing at that time...fighting in the country where the biggest fights take place. So he is supposed to go to Wales to fight Joe?! If Joe had the balls and a clear sense of his legacy...he would have brought his ass to the states back then. But what did he do instead...stay in comforts of Wales...until finally he comes to the states towards the end of his career to fight two 40+ year old fighters. Bravo Joe!!
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
Last time i checked...the MAJORITY of big fights and big time fighters fight in the states (and i don't say that trying to be nationalistic...just a clear fact). So i have never given much credence to the argument that the reason prime Jones vs. Calzaghe didn't happen years ago...was Roys fault. He was the biggest star in boxing at that time...fighting in the country where the biggest fights take place. So he is supposed to go to Wales to fight Joe?! If Joe had the balls and a clear sense of his legacy...he would have brought his ass to the states back then. But what did he do instead...stay in comforts of Wales...until finally he comes to the states towards the end of his career to fight two 40+ year old fighters. Bravo Joe!!
Joe had no choice after realising the other two ya mention would not fight Joe unless it was in there own backyard....Dont forget that during all this time Joe was a champion too ....
So why bow down to the other champions whims ... Joe had as much right to want to fight at home as the other two do....& if Joe had been an easy enough fight for them, whty wait, why not come over & kick his ass ... because they didnt fancy it...
So after years of waiting & of trying to get the fights at home & realising they will never come, he goes over to the states & wins both fights, as a 36 year old, no spring chicken himself...But he did it & won, yet its still not good enough:shocking:
:badass::badass::badass:
Re: Calzaghe ducked the best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bambamdaddio
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
Last time i checked...the MAJORITY of big fights and big time fighters fight in the states (and i don't say that trying to be nationalistic...just a clear fact). So i have never given much credence to the argument that the reason prime Jones vs. Calzaghe didn't happen years ago...was Roys fault. He was the biggest star in boxing at that time...fighting in the country where the biggest fights take place. So he is supposed to go to Wales to fight Joe?! If Joe had the balls and a clear sense of his legacy...he would have brought his ass to the states back then. But what did he do instead...stay in comforts of Wales...until finally he comes to the states towards the end of his career to fight two 40+ year old fighters. Bravo Joe!!
Joe had no choice after realising the other two ya mention would not fight Joe unless it was in there own backyard....Dont forget that during all this time Joe was a champion too ....
So why bow down to the other champions whims ... Joe had as much right to want to fight at home as the other two do....& if Joe had been an easy enough fight for them, whty wait, why not come over & kick his ass ... because they didnt fancy it...
So after years of waiting & of trying to get the fights at home & realising they will never come, he goes over to the states & wins both fights, as a 36 year old, no spring chicken himself...But he did it & won, yet its still not good enough:shocking:
:badass::badass::badass:
I'll assume you are either joking or just completely ignorant. Did you read the beginning of my post? Boxing is a business. And where it's the biggest business is right here in the states (for better or worse). Roy Jones was a superstar. Joe, champion or not, was not (outside of Wales at least). But you want me to be foolish enough to believe the reason Joe didn't come to the US back then was because of his pride?! Worse, you actually think "after years of waiting & trying" he decides to finally come to the states...to fight and prove his worth? Now that's funny. Maybe, just maybe...Joe waited for the RIGHT time to come here and fight guys like Roy and Bernard. But hey...trying to convince Joe fans such as yourself otherwise is pointless. George Foreman could come out of retirement....fight Joe and lose....and some of y'all would find a way to dress that up as an accomplishment.
