Well in defense of Big George, he reclaimed the Heavyweight title when he was past 40, a feat of unequalled proportion, even today!
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Well in defense of Big George, he reclaimed the Heavyweight title when he was past 40, a feat of unequalled proportion, even today!
Oscar De La Hoya rated higher than Hopkins is fukin bullshit to the fullest
Indeed, a BS list like Trainer Monkey initially stated. Benny Leonard, rated above Sugar Ray Leonard?
ESPN is trying to be cute.
1 Sugar Ray Robinson
2 Henry Armstrong
3 Willie Pep
4 Muhammad Ali
5 Joe Louis
6 Roberto Duran
7 Juio Cesar Chavez
8 Pernell Whitaker
9 Carlos Monzon
10 Sugar Ray Leonard
11 Ezzard Charles
12 Archie Moore
13 Jack Dempsey
14 Ricardo Lopez
15 Eder Jofre
16 Alexis Arguello
17 Marvin Hagler
18 Gene Tunney
19 Thomas Hearns
20 Rocky Marciano
21 Ruben Olivares
22 Floyd Mayweather Jr
23 Roy Jones
24 Larry Holmes
25 Manny Pacquiao
26 Miguel Canto
27 Wilfredo Gomez
28 Carlos Ortiz
29 George Foreman
30 Emile Griffith
31 Jose Angel Napoles
32 Miguel Canto
33 Erik Morales
34 Marco Antonio Barrera
35 Eusebio Pedroza
36 Bernard Hopkins
37 Salvador Sanchez
38 Bob Foster
39 Lennox Lewis
40 Mike McCallum
41 James Toney
42 Azumah Nelson
43 Felix Trinidad
44 Oscar De La Hoya
45 Khaosai Galaxy
46 Joe Calzaghe
47 Carlos Zarate
48 Wilfredo Benitez
49 Joe Frazier
50 Antonio Cervantes
My own little quick list and this is based on fighters, i have seen enough of. So fighters like Harry Greb won't be making my list. Don't bash on my list too bad i done this list very quickly, and its hard to think of the names.
Yes and he done it against one of the weakest belt holders, who's best weight was at Light Heavyweight. Im not trying to be hard on Big George Foreman, but come on top 20 of all time ? hell no.Quote:
Originally Posted by KananKrus
As I said at the time when that ESPN list was originally posted...
the fact that Pernell was behind Oscar was downright laughable. No matter what the criteria was.
thats a good list ICE but i see no Mosley or Winky. i would have Tito a little higher than having him next to Oscar. but still a better list than ESPNs.
Like i said bro it was just a quick list i put together, i would have to think for hours to do a proper list. Because its so hard thinking of the names, remembering there best fights, achievements ETC.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfrnk
I don't think Shane Mosley deserves to be top 50, i think his reign at Lightweight was pretty average. And above Lightweight he had mixed results, i agree with maybe Winky Wright, you could place in anywhere beateen 50-40, but i thought fighters like James Toney, Mike McCallum, were more deserving.
yea that would take a while. but atleast u have SRL at #10 :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonito DonaireLike i said bro it was just a quick list i put together, i would have to think for hours to do a proper list. Because its so hard thinking of the names, remembering there best fights, achievements ETC.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfrnk
I don't think Shane Mosley deserves to be top 50, i think his reign at Lightweight was pretty average. And above Lightweight he had mixed results, i agree with maybe Winky Wright, you could place in anywhere beateen 50-40, but i thought fighters like James Toney, Mike McCallum, were more deserving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonito Donaire
Joe Frazier won the Biggest fight Ever. He was the first man ever to beat Muhammad Ali. He was undisputed heavyweight champion in THE single greatest era of heavyweight boxing, and he was an Olympic gold medalist.
Forman was a two time undisputed heavyweight champion, once in the greatest era of heavyweight boxing and again 20 years latter in the 2nd greatest era of heavyweight boxing. He is the first person to beat Joe Frazier and did it by knockout. Twice.
I can't believe some people putting Oscar that low.I mean some did notice he took on the who's who of boxing. Also is a six weight class champ. Also IMO Willie Pep is rated ridiculously high. Sandy Saddler is a much better fighter than he ever was. People put the emphysis on ring generalship what Pep had but he could not break a potato chip if I held it in front of him. Give Saddler the respect he deserves. On Sugar's list I would switch them two. Also with his list I wouldn't rate the Leonard's that high. Other than that his list is good.
These lists are impossible to put together, especially in order. You can see they order the top 10 then just put names oin the order they think about them. A lot of the fighters a close to guys who fought at the same time, it's like they went 'Oh Archie Moore should be in' then they go 'Oh shit then so should Ezzard Charles' then they chick Roy Bernard and Floyd in right next to each other as a bit of an after though. Lamotta shouldn't be ont it at all just as an observation.
Yes, too, but he got a win against Holyfield when he was prime, it says somethin', won't you say?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonito DonaireYes and he done it against one of the weakest belt holders, who's best weight was at Light Heavyweight. Im not trying to be hard on Big George Foreman, but come on top 20 of all time ? hell no.Quote:
Originally Posted by KananKrus
... Moorer then challenged Evander Holyfield for the IBF and WBA title belts. On April 22, 1994, Moorer overcame a second-round knockdown and went on to win a majority decision over Holyfield. (wikipedia)
So what if Joe Frazier had one single big win against a rusty Muhammad Ali ? how many fighters have had one big win over a great fighter ? take Randolph Turpin he beat the greatest fighter of all time, i don't see him anywhere, and even though he lost the rematch, he was still beating SRR in the rematch until SRR rallied.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance UppercutQuote:
Originally Posted by Nonito Donaire
Joe Frazier won the Biggest fight Ever. He was the first man ever to beat Muhammad Ali. He was undisputed heavyweight champion in THE single greatest era of heavyweight boxing, and he was an Olympic gold medalist.
Forman was a two time undisputed heavyweight champion, once in the greatest era of heavyweight boxing and again 20 years latter in the 2nd greatest era of heavyweight boxing. He is the first person to beat Joe Frazier and did it by knockout. Twice.
Where as Joe Frazier wasn't even really competitive in the next two fights with Muhammad Ali, he atleast lost by 4 or 3 rounds in the 2nd fight, and he was atleast 5 rounds behind in the 3rd fight. One big win shouldn't automatically get you that high in the rankings, and his other wins against Jimmy Ellis x2, Jerry Quarry x2, OscarBonavena x2, Buster Mathis, Joe Bugner, are decent wins but hardly warranting that high of a ranking.
As for George Foreman again yes he defeated Joe Frazier x2, which were very good wins. But other than a win over Ken Norton, who always mostly folded against big punchers, what other wins did George Foreman have that stand out ? he beat Ron Lyle but was almost Ko'ed in the process, and no disrespect to Ron Lyle but he's nowhere near one of the top Heavyweights. I wouldn't even put him in the top 40 Heavyweights of all time.
George Chuvalo was also a decent win but come on despite George Chuvalo having a granite chin, he is nothing special. He was always in the B class regarding Heavyweight rankings, and after George Foreman's loss to Muhammad Ali he was soundly beaten by Jimmy Young, then he retired and comeback and a beat a few stiffs, along with a few decent opponents like Bert Cooper, and an old washed up Gerry Cooney.
He then went onto challenge Evander Holyfield and lost soundly, despite giving a good effort but a loss is a loss, he then got a gift decision against the goodish Alex Stewart, was given a boxing lesson by Tommy Morrison. And please don't try and hype up Michael Moorer, he beat an Evander Holyfield that was having problems with his health at that time, and Michael Moorer still got a gift decision in that fight, and he was beaten to a pulp in a rematch against a 100 percent Evander Holyfield.
Michael Moorer was a good Light Heavyweight but at Heavyweight, he was goodish at best. He went life and death with Bert Cooper, was badly hurt against Alex Stewart, his chin was always pretty suspect at Heavyweight. And he was giving George Foreman a boxing lesson, until George Foreman got that homerun shot which was a hell of an achievement, but come off it Michael Moorer was one of the weakest champions in the modern era of the Heavyweights and you know it.
Then George Foreman's reign was quickly over when he defended it against Axel Schulz. And got another gift decision, and refused to give Axel Schulz a rematch which in turn got his title took off him. He then fought weak opposition like Lou Savarase, Crawford Grimsley, then come Shannon Briggs, and i have to admit i thought George Foreman beat Shannon Briggs, but the point im trying to make.
Is that combined with his two careers George Foreman only made 3 title defense's and his best wins were against Michael Moorer, Joe Frazier x2, Ken Norton, Ron Lyle, George Chuvlalo, Bert Cooper, Gregorio Peralta x2, Gerry Cooney, ETC.
Now if you honestly think taking that all into account, that George Foreman deserves to be top 20 of all time, then im quite speechless no offense, he suffered bad losses to Jimmy Young, Tommy Morrison, he also got atleast 3 gift decisions against mediocre opposition, i think George Foreman is a hell of a fighter and im not trying to discredit him.
But putting George Foreman as one of the best 20 fighters of all time, is just way off the mark IMO. I have him at 29 and i could have easily rated him lower, but i think thats a pretty fair rating, any higher and thats seriously pushing it IMO.
Fightfan, Probably the reason why Pepp is higher than Saddler, is because Saddler Beat Pepp after the plane crash. Surgeons said He would be lucky to even walk again, after the injurys Pepp recieved, He certainly wasnt the Fighter He was before the crash.