Prospects you wish would have been great

[quote=The Fightfan;658080]

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by CGM

Yeah on Witherspoon. Was never quite sure what happened to him. Even in defeat against Holmes he looked real good. But then he just kind of faded away slowly. Lack of ambition? Drugs?

Marvis I didn't see a lot of coming up, I knew he existed. But seeing him against Homes and Tyson he was completely and totally outmatched, outclassed, outgunned. Like he had no business fighting for the heavyweight title.[/quote
Spoon was Kings fault,he cut the tap on fights for him because they were bitching about what a federal court would agree with,King was stealing money from him,and Spoon caught him.
Marvis was really Joe's fault,and let me caveat this by saying Joe is one of my idols,but he got it in to his head that Marvis had to be a power punching heavyweight,if he had let him be what he really was, a speedy sniping cruiserweight/light heavyweight, he might have gone down as one of the greats.

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I never knew this until Tim Witherpsoon told me but Marvis and him were in the open class golden gloves together and Marvis won and Tim was knocked down in his first fight and lost on points. Also in that division was my old trainer Kerry Judge who won the novice class golden gloves when those two entered. Kerry wasn't known as well as his brother Jerry Judge who was one of the four fighter's who fought George Foreman one night in Toronto.

NO real relevance to what you posted just thought it was cool.

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Just to spin this completely off course,you training at Spoons gym?

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by BlackRazor

I know what you mean about Vargas but at least he did become a champ. Many prospects never even win a title. David Reid was a guy I hoped would stick around longer. Both Reid & Vargas have losses to Tito & were never really the same after fighting that Puerto Rican power puncher.

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Well David Reid won a world title, he was the WBA Jr. Middleweight Champion in just his 12th fight, but then got badly whooped by Trinidad, fun fact about Reid read in an article a whiiiiiile back that his droopy eye lid was caused by another Puerto Rican and now WBA Jr. Middleweight Champion, Daniel Santos in an amatuer fight in the Pan-Am Games, but back to Vargas, i honestly felt before and then even more so right after the Trinidad fight, that if he was groomed right that he could have been an all time great in the Jr. Middleweight division

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I didn't know that was from Santos. That's a tough guy most would probably avoid, he's a lefty for one. Also won another title via a KO of an unbeaten fighter.

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

i was thinking about how many prospects look like they'll be a force to be reckoned with, but then either end up losing to not so great opposition or never end up being as good as you had hoped or thought they'd be, my personal pick is Fernando Vargas, many people are quick to say he was overrated, when honestly i say it was wrecked due to bad managing, the guy had it all, power, good boxing ability, heart, took risks (sometimes too many), was willing to fight everyone, and also could sell a fight easily. was wonderin if you guys could share your picks

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But even if Fernando Vargas had been allowed to develop a bit more, could he have honestly ever have beaten ODLH, Felix Trinidad, Shane Mosley ?

I mean i understand what your saying and i agree somewhat, and he did impress me in his early fights especially against Winky Wright, but the point im making i don't think he could have ever have beaten the fighters i mentioned above.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Goofi Whitaker
Ernie Shavers
Marvis Frazier
Angel Manfreddy
Tim Witherspoon

All guys who you thought could be one of the greats coming up,all did not

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Angel Manfredy ? Marvis Frazier ? are you frigging kidding me ? and as for Earnie Shavers he couldn't of done any better. He simply was in the strongest era in Heavyweight history.

And he fell short although he had a few big wins, he simply always fell short against a majority of the top boys, and thats because he had very suspect stamina, and at times a shaky chin.

Excuse me for being picky but most of the names listed were not prospects they were more contenders.

For me I would have to say Francisco "Panchito" Bojado.

When I first saw Marc johnson....thought he was a long lasting force.Did pretty well in career though,as had many guys listed here,but ultimatly was plauged with personal difficulties,did not shy away from unnecessary shoot outs and chin was a bit shaky.Surerb fighter though.

Zack Padilla...again,one that DID reach Championship stature but career cut short while on a top notch run.

Marshall Martinez. I met this guy. And was present at his pro debut. Had good skills but couldn't leave the streets behind. Was the other guy who got busted with Ricardo Williams in that drug arrest and went to prison. Got out recently and has resume his career. But it's going to be a long road back. Lacks the work ethic of his cousin Steven Luevano

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Originally Posted by Nonito Donaire

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Goofi Whitaker
Ernie Shavers
Marvis Frazier
Angel Manfreddy
Tim Witherspoon

All guys who you thought could be one of the greats coming up,all did not

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Angel Manfredy ? Marvis Frazier ? are you frigging kidding me ? and as for Earnie Shavers he couldn't of done any better. He simply was in the strongest era in Heavyweight history.

And he fell short although he had a few big wins, he simply always fell short against a majority of the top boys, and thats because he had very suspect stamina, and at times a shaky chin.

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Manfredy fought Mayweather,beat Gatti,and Rodriguez,wasted Calvin Grove
Frazier fought both Tyson and Holmes,was the US Amateur champion,beat Bonecrusher Smith,Quick Tillis,and Joe Bugner
So Id reverse the question,are you freaking kidding me?

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by Nonito Donaire

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Goofi Whitaker
Ernie Shavers
Marvis Frazier
Angel Manfreddy
Tim Witherspoon

All guys who you thought could be one of the greats coming up,all did not

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Angel Manfredy ? Marvis Frazier ? are you frigging kidding me ? and as for Earnie Shavers he couldn't of done any better. He simply was in the strongest era in Heavyweight history.

And he fell short although he had a few big wins, he simply always fell short against a majority of the top boys, and thats because he had very suspect stamina, and at times a shaky chin.

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Manfredy fought Mayweather,beat Gatti,and Rodriguez,wasted Calvin Grove
Frazier fought both Tyson and Holmes,was the US Amateur champion,beat Bonecrusher Smith,Quick Tillis,and Joe Bugner
So Id reverse the question,are you freaking kidding me?

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Marvis Frazier was destroyed in less than a round by Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, so how does that help your arguement ? James Tillis was a journeyman with good footwork but never the less a journeyman.

Joe Bugner was far removed from his prime, and despite a good performance against Joe Frazier he never impressed me, and he was always way too cautious which cost him in alot of fights. James Smith had good power but again his skill-set was nowhere to be seen.

And lastly Angel Manfredy i agree wasn't a bad fighter, and he had a few good wins but he was destroyed by Floyd Mayweather, Diego Corrales but again. When did Angel Manfredy, Marvis Frazier, ever show greatness ? and when did these fighters ever show they could of been the best at there weightclasses ?

I mean i can understand Tim Witherspon on your list, he did have very good skills and could of gone down as one of the greatest Heavyweights of his era. And he did show greatness in a few of his fights before Don King ruined him.

Do you see what im getting now ? IMO this thread was supposed to be about fighters who did show great ability, but never achieved there full potiental. Guys like Marvis Frazier, Angel Manfredy, don't fit this category, even if you did like them as fighters.

Ricardo Mayorga.
I wish he would have dedicated himself more than he did.

Z Gorres for me. But I call him the uncrown champion coz he just can't get a break from the referees and judges. I really feel he should've won against Montiel and Darchinyan.

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Originally Posted by Nonito Donaire

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by Nonito Donaire

Angel Manfredy ? Marvis Frazier ? are you frigging kidding me ? and as for Earnie Shavers he couldn't of done any better. He simply was in the strongest era in Heavyweight history.

And he fell short although he had a few big wins, he simply always fell short against a majority of the top boys, and thats because he had very suspect stamina, and at times a shaky chin.

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Manfredy fought Mayweather,beat Gatti,and Rodriguez,wasted Calvin Grove
Frazier fought both Tyson and Holmes,was the US Amateur champion,beat Bonecrusher Smith,Quick Tillis,and Joe Bugner
So Id reverse the question,are you freaking kidding me?

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Marvis Frazier was destroyed in less than a round by Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, so how does that help your arguement ? James Tillis was a journeyman with good footwork but never the less a journeyman.

Joe Bugner was far removed from his prime, and despite a good performance against Joe Frazier he never impressed me, and he was always way too cautious which cost him in alot of fights. James Smith had good power but again his skill-set was nowhere to be seen.

And lastly Angel Manfredy i agree wasn't a bad fighter, and he had a few good wins but he was destroyed by Floyd Mayweather, Diego Corrales but again. When did Angel Manfredy, Marvis Frazier, ever show greatness ? and when did these fighters ever show they could of been the best at there weightclasses ?

I mean i can understand Tim Witherspon on your list, he did have very good skills and could of gone down as one of the greatest Heavyweights of his era. And he did show greatness in a few of his fights before Don King ruined him.

Do you see what im getting now ? IMO this thread was supposed to be about fighters who did show great ability, but never achieved there full potiental. Guys like Marvis Frazier, Angel Manfredy, don't fit this category, even if you did like them as fighters.

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Did you get the original question,it was about PROSPECTS,that means someone that looked good early and then FAILED
Like Marvis Frazier,who was underweight and got screwed up trying to turn him in to a slugger,or Manfredy,who allways seemed on the verge of a nervous breakdown,but had skills early on.
Again go back to the original question,a PROSPECT who could have been great

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Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

Z Gorres for me. But I call him the uncrown champion coz he just can't get a break from the referees and judges. I really feel he should've won against Montiel and Darchinyan.

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Gorres biggest problem is the fact that he can't stay on his feet. He deserved the loss to Montiel. And should of got one against Darchinyan.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

Z Gorres for me. But I call him the uncrown champion coz he just can't get a break from the referees and judges. I really feel he should've won against Montiel and Darchinyan.

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Gorres biggest problem is the fact that he can't stay on his feet. He deserved the loss to Montiel. And should of got one against Darchinyan.

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Gorres was winning. He didn't deserve those penalties. The ref was lame.

Gorres slipped and the ref calls it a KD for Darchinyan. That was bullshit too.

Gorres deserves a rematch against one those two.

I'd like to add this... We all know that Montiel is very crappy against leftys. That's why I'm giving him zero chance against Darchinyan.

Rolando Navarette, Andy Ganigan, John "the Beast" Mugabi, Carl "the Truth" Williams...