Who is the greatest ever Featherweight?

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

Yeah but Mick the title of the thread says greatest ever! Not who you seen! So for me its Pep!
Can I ask why you don't rate those others at this weight?

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Def. Galaxy I read the title of the thread.
I can't and wont argue if people want to rate fighters like Pep, Saddler, Bassey, Miller etc. etc. Everyone has their own reasons and ways to compiling a list.
I don't rate them because how can I compare what I see on my screen (as far as names, wins and loses vs. someone whom my eyes have seen fight I see what they can do and what they can't do). I can only read how good these fighters were. As I've said before these articles/reports were written hundreds of years ago by not so acredited writers. I also remember reading a report on SRR fight by 2 different writers during his career in the 1940s and the 2 writers told almost 2 differend fights it was like they both had seen 2 different fights, now mind you this was the 1940 now imagine articles/reports from the 1800's & 1900's? These guys could exaggerate and write just about anything. I don't argue the fact that they werent great fighters like Greb, Loughran, McVea you name them but how do we REALLY know these writters didn't exaggerate?

Which is why I would just rather stick to fighters I've seen fights of and know about. It's just my opinion and how I rate fighters. I can't compare a fighter I've seen vs. A fighter I've read about that to me is impossible and I refuse to go by someone elses words. I'd rather let my own eyes and mind decide.

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

Armstrong started & fought at feather for 8 years! Most of his wins came at this weight. He was even named fighter of the year in '37 whilst still at feather. He beat guys like Sarron, Wright, Arizmendi. Armstrongs record at feather is just as good if not better than at welter!

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I've just always been more impressed with Henrys work as a Welterweight I def. agree that his work at Feather is top caliber but I'm more pleasead with his work at the other weight and I've rated him as such.
Maybe it's time I give Henrys career at Feather a 2nd look.

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

Miller just look at his numbers & who he fought & beat at feather!

Chocolate was probably a better Jr Lightweight but he was an awesome feather too & at his best he would have hung with any featherweight in history!

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Miller I've not seen enough of to have him listed...
I can def. see by his career he was def. a top fighter but numbers and names can only tell you so much...
Chocolate was def. a better Jr. Light his opposition there and record exceeds that of his Feather career.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

Yeah but Mick the title of the thread says greatest ever! Not who you seen! So for me its Pep!
Can I ask why you don't rate those others at this weight?

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Def. Galaxy I read the title of the thread.
I can't and wont argue if people want to rate fighters like Pep, Saddler, Bassey, Miller etc. etc. Everyone has their own reasons and ways to compiling a list.
I don't rate them because how can I compare what I see on my screen (as far as names, wins and loses vs. someone whom my eyes have seen fight I see what they can do and what they can't do). I can only read how good these fighters were. As I've said before these articles/reports were written hundreds of years ago by not so acredited writers. I also remember reading a report on SRR fight by 2 different writers during his career in the 1940s and the 2 writers told almost 2 differend fights it was like they both had seen 2 different fights, now mind you this was the 1940 now imagine articles/reports from the 1800's & 1900's? These guys could exaggerate and write just about anything. I don't argue the fact that they werent great fighters like Greb, Loughran, McVea you name them but how do we REALLY know these writters didn't exaggerate?

Which is why I would just rather stick to fighters I've seen fights of and know about. It's just my opinion and how I rate fighters. I can't compare a fighter I've seen vs. A fighter I've read about that to me is impossible and I refuse to go by someone elses words. I'd rather let my own eyes and mind decide.

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

Armstrong started & fought at feather for 8 years! Most of his wins came at this weight. He was even named fighter of the year in '37 whilst still at feather. He beat guys like Sarron, Wright, Arizmendi. Armstrongs record at feather is just as good if not better than at welter!

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I've just always been more impressed with Henrys work as a Welterweight I def. agree that his work at Feather is top caliber but I'm more pleasead with his work at the other weight and I've rated him as such.
Maybe it's time I give Henrys career at Feather a 2nd look.

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

Miller just look at his numbers & who he fought & beat at feather!

Chocolate was probably a better Jr Lightweight but he was an awesome feather too & at his best he would have hung with any featherweight in history!

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Miller I've not seen enough of to have him listed...
I can def. see by his career he was def. a top fighter but numbers and names can only tell you so much...
Chocolate was def. a better Jr. Light his opposition there and record exceeds that of his Feather career.

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I respect where your coming from Mick about seeing fighters fight 1st hand. But research can give you a lot of insight! Like I said in my original post Sanchez is the best feather I've seen. But for me it would be a discredit to those other fighters not to recognise their achievements just because I haven't seen them! Especially when considering the greatest ever!

The best ever that I have seen was Azumah Nelson (Barry McGuigan did the right thing to cross the road every time he saw him coming along;)). I thought he had everything - technique, speed, power, chin, guts and he was always fit and ready to fight. A real great great fighter. I would rank Eusebio Pedroza just behind him.

I know all about Pep and Armstrong and those guys, but I have stopped short of comparing them to Nelson as I have not seen enough footage of the right quality and length to have a proper opinion. Mind you, Armstrong would be in many people's top 5 fighters of all time, irrespective of weight I guess and Pep, Saddler and those would not be far off.

Some great great featherweights throughout history.

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Originally Posted by X

The best ever that I have seen was Azumah Nelson (Barry McGuigan did the right thing to cross the road every time he saw him coming along;)). I thought he had everything - technique, speed, power, chin, guts and he was always fit and ready to fight. A real great great fighter. I would rank Eusebio Pedroza just behind him.

I know all about Pep and Armstrong and those guys, but I have stopped short of comparing them to Nelson as I have not seen enough footage of the right quality and length to have a proper opinion. Mind you, Armstrong would be in many people's top 5 fighters of all time, irrespective of weight I guess and Pep, Saddler and those would not be far off.

Some great great featherweights throughout history.

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Azumah was great I've got to agree! But better than Sanchez? I don't know!

Sanchez did beat him!

True ..... but only in something like Nelson's 15th fight (and I think he may have been a late substitute)?

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Originally Posted by X

True ..... but only in something like Nelson's 15th fight (and I think he may have been a late substitute)?

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Oh I'm not sure have to check boxrec. I think it was Sanchez's last fight before his death!

Some other names that spring to mind...

Tony Canzoneri
Chalky Wright
Vicente Saldivar
Wilfredo Gomez
Abe Attell

Just found this list which doesn't seem too bad to me except for some modern day fighters being left off the list such as JMM, Naz, Barrera and Morales.

Boxing's Best of the Century

Ha ha just realised it's because it was best of the last century!

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Originally Posted by Master

Sandy Sadler

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I agree with this one Sandy manhandled Pep like he was his bitch in most of the fight's. Except the one were Pep ran and ran, tap and tap his way to victory.

Sandy Saddler easily the best so far.

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Ha ha just realised it's because it was best of the last century!

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Lol, just looking at that list makes you realize how strong that division has been in the last decade, becuase there are 4 or 5 fighters not on that list that probably would be now

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Ha ha just realised it's because it was best of the last century!

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Lol, just looking at that list makes you realize how strong that division has been in the last decade, becuase there are 4 or 5 fighters not on that list that probably would be now

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Yeah for me Feather along with Welter are the strongest divisions consistently in the history of the game. It's very rare that they are weak!

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Some other names that spring to mind...

Tony Canzoneri
Chalky Wright
Vicente Saldivar
Wilfredo Gomez
Abe Attell

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Really, Wilfredo as a Feather?
I think his best work came at Super Bantam.
His only win at Feather was vs. LaPorte...

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

This is a topic I have been thinking about for quite a while now and it's got me wondering... Just who is the greatest ever Featherweight in boxing history?

A lot of the so called experts seem to go for Willie Pep but there is not that much of him on film to really convince me. I mean I know he was a defensive master but I think I'd have loved to see more of him so I can make a clearer decision.

Another one who seems to get a lot of accolades is Sandy Saddler who beat Pep a few time I think! But again not enough film or at least I don't seem to be able to find much.

No for me to honestly say they are the greatest feathers I have ever seen I would have had to see quite a bit of them which leads me to my vote Salvador Sanchez. I've seen enough of him to say I think he would pretty much beat any other feather I have seen since.

Problem is Featherweight is a division that has been crammed with class over the years with names such as Azumah Nelson, Vincente Saldivar, Wilfredo Gomez, Henry Armstrong (another who I haven't seen an awful lot of), Eusebio Pedroza, Erik Morales and Barrera amongst others of more recent fighters.

I know that the problem with my choice is basically he didn't have the longevity due to his tragic early death but there was still enough fights for him to prove his worth to me.

Anyway I'd just like to know who you guys think is the greatest Feather in history? Sorry if I missed anyones favourite in my list but I didn't have all day!

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Willie Pep as a pure Featherweight.

When you read about Pep he was in a plane accident in 1948 and after recovering came back but wasn't quite the same. This is most likely why most boxing historians factor the 3rd and 4th fights with Saddler.

Abe Attell!!! He is the only boxer who could screw up championships in two different sports: Throwing away a world championship in boxing and fixing the World Series in American baseball.