Re: Fights that could help the heavyweight division.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Sam Peter shouldn't be cast aside just yet...he's 28 just like Haye. In fact he could prove to be quite a challenge for Haye.
The young guys NEED to get more experience so they can actually compete vs the top level guys. It's not like Povetkin has wowed everyone vs his toughest competition....Eddie Chambers was doing very well vs him and if Eddie can swell his eye up like that then imagine what a big guy like Wladimir or Vitali would do.
kinda byest on my own behalf lyle but i just cant stomach seeing the heavyweight division trying to re-brand itself with big 280+ lumps like peter who will bring no star quality to the division.
Pretty much the same with valuev who despite a decent record brings nothing to the sport as a whole and is not welcome if the sport is to once again succeed on a mainstream level.
Arreola may look like a big tub but he brings genuine excitement to the table and for this division to once again to reign supreme thats pretty important.
The heavyweight division needs....
A star champion who can appear to many as not only exciting but almost invincible
contenders in and around that champion who although may not neccesarily have records like a valuev, chagaev fighting bums from their own country but instead a decent record amongst the great fighters of their generation and ability to beat eachother on their own given night
Attitude - more cockyness and complete arrogance from those who have actually earned the right to act that way.
And more american champions..........PLEASE
Re: Fights that could help the heavyweight division.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
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Originally Posted by
Bomp
The thing is, if someone risks their record like Chambers and Povetkin, then the loss is used to shove the loser into the 'who needs him club'. There's no structure even WITHIN each alphabet, a win against a guy with consecutive losses can sometimes get you a shot.
If Haye isn't confident in fighting Chambers or Povetkin then how the hell can he be confident in fighting Wladimir.
rjjtzsyu, Haye is going to get stomped if he choses to fight Wladimir right away as will Arreola HOWEVER at least Arreola has fought a guy with pretty good power who is a natural heavyweight.
I think Alexander Dimitrenko has the best shot vs Wladimir...he's big he has fast hands he's trained by Fritz Sdunek and he apparently can go to the body pretty good for a big guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIE0OnY6zps
He still needs some fine tuning but that KO shot on Krasniqi was something you don't see everyday from a heavyweight
Well Lyle I'd just like to ask who you predicted would win when Wlad fought Purrity, Sanders and Brewster (first fight), because I'd like to bet you said Wlad would "Stomp" them too!
The point I'm trying to make is that although I do rate Wlad more than a lot of boxing fans do, I don't share your belief that he is this unbeatable machine who Haye has no chance with. At the end of the day Haye is faster than Wlad and he hits hard enough to send any Heavy to sleep and Wlad's chin at the end of the day is hs biggest weakness.
Re: Fights that could help the heavyweight division.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Right now I think everyone will agree that the Heavyweight division has a lot of holes in it and by that I mean that we have title holders but lack one singular Champion and we have challengers but they usually are mandatories or too green to fight for a title, we also have lots of older fighters and journeymen who can still fight at a decent level which add to the confusion and lack of consistency in the division.
These matches that I propose will create true contenders who will draw more excitement when they get their shots, create less "title holders" and a Champion or two who can legitimately be viewed as THE GUY(s) to beat.
Vitali Klitschko-Nicolay Valuev: TITLE UNIFICATION...Vitali wins and we have The Klitschko Brothers as duel Champions, Valuev wins (haha) and it sets up a total unification bout with Wladimir.
Alexander Povetkin - David Haye: Both fighters are not proven at the top of the division. Povetkin seems to box well but not punch too hard, Haye seems to punch hard but not box all that well. The winner would be in line for a title shot and the loser would have to have a couple more fights before they got a shot.
Cris Arreola - Alexander Dimitrenko: Undefeated fighters, decent power, and good showings vs almost top level fighters....a KO winner in this fight would seemingly be invincible and get a shot at either Wlad or Vitali.
Wladimir Klitschko - Ruslan Chagaev: These guys are a seemingly good matchup. Wlad holds 3 titles (2 worth a damn) and Chagaev has only been fighting in the WBA section of the division. It's about time we see what Chagaev really has to offer the division besides being able to beat Nicolay Valuev and John Ruiz.
Sam Peter - John Ruiz: Ruiz has had his chances at the titles but IMO never truly earned them. Sam Peter has been lackluster for a couple fights and I think if these guys fight whoever loses will be tossed into journeyman status. And everyone will love to see John Ruiz get KO'd if Sam is able to do it. A winner in this fight would be put in line for a title shot after a bout vs another top contender.
Cedric Boswell - Sergei Lyakhovich: Sergei has really pissed off a lot of fans with his showings of late and Cedric Boswell's biggest shot came when he ALMOST fought Vitali Klitschko only to be cast aside for the ever better Vitali-Lewis fight. This fight is to relegate one fighter to journeyman status and slightly raise another fighter out of the depths of obscurity. The winner of this fight would be in line for a shot at a contender or two and if they won those, then a title shot.
Sultan Ibragimov - Jameel McCline: Sure Jameel McCline is boring as hell but Sultan would need a KO/TKO win to get himself back into the thick of things. If Jameel is able to outbox or KO a version of Sultan who is gunning for a KO instead of waiting on one punch all freaking fight then he's worthy of moving up in the rankings a bit. A win for Sultan puts him back into the contender status and a win for McCline puts him right back in the thick of things.
Travis Walker - Malik Scott: I would have rather picked Ray Austin but Ray has a couple losses and Malik is undefeated so far so it would tell us where both these guys stand. I don't know about you but Walker is a big ol' boy and he surprised me with how hard and accurate his punches were vs Arreola....if Walker is able to land and finish off a PURE BOXER like Scott then he can work his way back up the ladder to fight another contender.
I've got some other fights in mind but these seemed like they would make the most sense out of the division.
As much as I hate saying it, I think John Ruiz would beat Sam Peter easily. I think the styles would match perfectly for the quiet man. Ruiz has just enough power to make Peter respect him and that wiggly head thing he does would frustrate Peter (I think what Tua did to him has affected him positively).
I would love to see a more focused Walker who can exhibit more ring intelligence than he had against Arreola. The only problem I see with him was Arreola was able to figure him out and adjust whereas he was only able to continue doing the same thing. I would like Walker to start thinking about B plans and C plans.
I would also like to add the names Eddie Chambers and Jonathan Banks. If Banks can get past Adamek that shows a lot of growth and you'd be hard-pressed to find a heavyweight trainer better than Steward. Banks is only 26, spars regularly with Wladimir Klitschko and looks like he could add on 20 lbs of muscle easily. I would submit that Steward is intentionally keeping him at Cruiser until he's ready for heavy. If Chambers is going to make a stamp in the division he needs to weigh no more than 215 lbs. He's a small heavy and truly he should be fighting at light heavy. But he has knocked out 2 of his last 3 opponents and the guy's hand speed and defense make for a nice combo. He just needs to bump his game up 2 levels if he ever intends to beat a Klitschko. Either one would blast through his guard without fear because he doesn't have a lot of power. Oh, one more- Chazz Witherspoon. The guy just got bested by a better fighter in Arreola, but I don't think he's done.
Re: Fights that could help the heavyweight division.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
C-Lo
All the champions are just fighting mandatories instead of fighting each other for how long now? I think champions fighting champions are what can POSSIBLY make this division interesting. But now Vlad and Vitali have most of the belts so that isn't going to happen.
When Peter, Valuev, Maskaev, Chagaev, Wlad had belts at some point recently, they should've been fighting each other.
Your spot on. Why a Wlad-Valuev fight hasn't been made yet I don't know. I've been waiting for a Klitschko to fight him for the last couple of years. I think it could sell very well if they did it right.
Re: Fights that could help the heavyweight division.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
C-Lo
All the champions are just fighting mandatories instead of fighting each other for how long now? I think champions fighting champions are what can POSSIBLY make this division interesting. But now Vlad and Vitali have most of the belts so that isn't going to happen.
When Peter, Valuev, Maskaev, Chagaev, Wlad had belts at some point recently, they should've been fighting each other.
Your spot on. Why a Wlad-Valuev fight hasn't been made yet I don't know. I've been waiting for a Klitschko to fight him for the last couple of years. I think it could sell very well if they did it right.
It wont happen because valuevs camp knows the mans limits and that someone as tall as either klitschko with any remote talent is gonna box his head off and maybe even send him to the canvas.
Valuev will never fight a klitschko, povetkin, haye etc because the german/european public still eats up seeing him in with either a has been or a guy who simply has no real boxing prowess to counter someone thats 7`3
Re: Fights that could help the heavyweight division.
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Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
C-Lo
All the champions are just fighting mandatories instead of fighting each other for how long now? I think champions fighting champions are what can POSSIBLY make this division interesting. But now Vlad and Vitali have most of the belts so that isn't going to happen.
When Peter, Valuev, Maskaev, Chagaev, Wlad had belts at some point recently, they should've been fighting each other.
Your spot on. Why a Wlad-Valuev fight hasn't been made yet I don't know. I've been waiting for a Klitschko to fight him for the last couple of years. I think it could sell very well if they did it right.
It wont happen because valuevs camp knows the mans limits and that someone as tall as either klitschko with any remote talent is gonna
box his head off and maybe even send him to the canvas.
Valuev will never fight a klitschko, povetkin, haye etc because the german/european public still eats up seeing him in with either a has been or a guy who simply has no real boxing prowess to counter someone thats 7`3
Ha, that's the main reason I wan't to see it;D
Unfortunately your probably right about him never facing a top HW.
Re: Fights that could help the heavyweight division.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
C-Lo
All the champions are just fighting mandatories instead of fighting each other for how long now? I think champions fighting champions are what can POSSIBLY make this division interesting. But now Vlad and Vitali have most of the belts so that isn't going to happen.
When Peter, Valuev, Maskaev, Chagaev, Wlad had belts at some point recently, they should've been fighting each other.
Your spot on. Why a Wlad-Valuev fight hasn't been made yet I don't know. I've been waiting for a Klitschko to fight him for the last couple of years. I think it could sell very well if they did it right.
It wont happen because valuevs camp knows the mans limits and that someone as tall as either klitschko with any remote talent is gonna box his head off and maybe even send him to the canvas.
Valuev will never fight a klitschko, povetkin, haye etc because the german/european public still eats up seeing him in with either a has been or a guy who simply has no real boxing prowess to counter someone thats 7`3
As far as I'm concerned Valuev's card has already been pulled. Wlad said a couple years ago that he'd love to fight Valuev and knew it was a fight the public would want. Any real heavyweight worth his salt would have been frothing at the mouth after THE champ said he'd like to fight him.
Re: Fights that could help the heavyweight division.
A David Haye fight.
He is the saviour of this current lackluster division....
Re: Fights that could help the heavyweight division.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
leftylee
A David Haye fight.
He is the saviour of this current lackluster division....
HA, you are such a HOMER! It took David Haye 5 rounds to KO Monte Barrett a guy who Cliff Couser KO'd in 2 less than a year ago AND Nicolay Valuev KO'd in 11 a year ago AND a guy who Wladimir Klitschko KO'd in 7; 9 years ago AND he was the first to KO Monte too.
David Haye is the new Frank Bruno....I know you Brits love some damn Frank Bruno, and I love how he was a dramatic fighter but David Haye isn't the savior of the division not by a long shot!
As much as people may hate on Vitali and most especially Wladimir they forget that those two guys are extremely talented fighters....not JUST boxers but fighters.
Re: Fights that could help the heavyweight division.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
leftylee
A David Haye fight.
He is the saviour of this current lackluster division....
This is half the reason I dislike Haye. If he had actual accomplishments in the division before comments like these were made I would be drinking the kool-aid too. The HW division is filled with studs; the problem is match-ups. A lot of them may not be mature enough for the national stage, but that doesn't make them not good.
Re: Fights that could help the heavyweight division.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Killface
This is half the reason I dislike Haye. If he had actual accomplishments in the division before comments like these were made I would be drinking the kool-aid too. The HW division is filled with studs; the problem is match-ups. A lot of them may not be mature enough for the national stage, but that doesn't make them not good.
EXACTLY they just aren't ready because they haven't fought who they need to fight to be fully prepared for the guys that hold titles right now. And they haven't had the in-fight experiences they need to be well rounded.
Re: Fights that could help the heavyweight division.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
leftylee
A David Haye fight.
He is the saviour of this current lackluster division....
HA, you are such a HOMER! It took David Haye 5 rounds to KO Monte Barrett a guy who Cliff Couser KO'd in 2 less than a year ago AND Nicolay Valuev KO'd in 11 a year ago AND a guy who Wladimir Klitschko KO'd in 7; 9 years ago AND he was the first to KO Monte too.
David Haye is the new Frank Bruno....I know you Brits love some damn Frank Bruno, and I love how he was a dramatic fighter but David Haye isn't the savior of the division not by a long shot!
As much as people may hate on Vitali and most especially Wladimir they forget that those two guys are extremely talented fighters....not JUST boxers but fighters.
Answer me this Lyle.
What do you think will happen if David Haye lands a right hand FLUSH on Wladimir Klitchsko's chin ? Ill tell you. He'll go down and stay down.
Wlad has never felt power like Haye's FACT. Haye had devastating power at Cruiserweight. And yet he was weight drained. Look what he did to Monte Barret. Floored him 5 times in 5 rounds, destroyed the kid. Thats a little indication of what's coming to Wlad. If Tony Thompson could land all night what do you think Haye will do? Thompson is garbage and has no power, yet got through every time.
Wlad's defence is awful. He just uses that jab to paw his way through. Once Haye gets round that jab (And he will) it's lights out for Wladimir. If Sam Peter can floor him 3 times ? It's a pretty scary thought to see waht David Haye can and will do.
You got to remember as well Haye LOVES opponents like Wlad. Tall, upright and chinny. Look at the Alexander Gurov fight, he was like 6 foot 5. And Haye knocked him out in the first round.
Once Haye connects, Wlad hits the deck. EVERY time Wlad has faced somebody determined and fresh he has been knocked out. Forget frauds like Ray Austin and Sultan Ibragimov. In June (If Wlad has the balls to fight Haye) we will see a new HW champ. One that will put excitement back in this horrible division.
Re: Fights that could help the heavyweight division.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
leftylee
A David Haye fight.
He is the saviour of this current lackluster division....
HA, you are such a HOMER! It took David Haye 5 rounds to KO Monte Barrett a guy who Cliff Couser KO'd in 2 less than a year ago AND Nicolay Valuev KO'd in 11 a year ago AND a guy who Wladimir Klitschko KO'd in 7; 9 years ago AND he was the first to KO Monte too.
David Haye is the new Frank Bruno....I know you Brits love some damn Frank Bruno, and I love how he was a dramatic fighter but David Haye isn't the savior of the division not by a long shot!
As much as people may hate on Vitali and most especially Wladimir they forget that those two guys are extremely talented fighters....not JUST boxers but fighters.
Talk sense Lyle, Haye is nothing like Bruno and we'll have proof when he KO's Wlad!
Re: Fights that could help the heavyweight division.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
leftylee
A David Haye fight.
He is the saviour of this current lackluster division....
HA, you are such a HOMER! It took David Haye 5 rounds to KO Monte Barrett a guy who Cliff Couser KO'd in 2 less than a year ago AND Nicolay Valuev KO'd in 11 a year ago AND a guy who Wladimir Klitschko KO'd in 7; 9 years ago AND he was the first to KO Monte too.
David Haye is the new Frank Bruno....I know you Brits love some damn Frank Bruno, and I love how he was a dramatic fighter but David Haye isn't the savior of the division not by a long shot!
As much as people may hate on Vitali and most especially Wladimir they forget that those two guys are extremely talented fighters....not JUST boxers but fighters.
Talk sense Lyle, Haye is nothing like Bruno and we'll have proof when he KO's Wlad!
i agree, haye is nothing at all like bruno, frank wasnt a great fighter he was a holder who complaind too much about not getting a title shot, he wasnt the great british hope as many people say, he had a bad run in the early days with promotion and such, david haye is the next HWC he will KO wlad if he can counter the big jab, after that its cream cheese baby lol.
i think that they should put on a road show called "IN THE RING" where all the great champions that are alive answer questions from fans while sat in the ring with a host and take it all around the world, it will casue a ripple in all divisions especially HW. people will thrive on the storys and look for new storys from the future of boxing.
Re: Fights that could help the heavyweight division.
David Haye is a NOBODY....Cliff Couser beat Monte Barrett in 2 rounds, where is his title shot?
I remember you Brits putting a lot of faith in one Audley Harrison too....how did that work out for you????
David Haye got KO'd by an ancient Carl Thompson and he hasn't shown much improvement on defense since then either.
ALSO Alexander Gurov might have been 6'5 but he was also a CRUISERWEIGHT.
