Printable View
IMO Hagler clearly beats Monzon who great smaller guys as well, but not as great Duran or Leonard or Hearns.
IMO Bernard is the best middleweight ever that I've seen and I think he beats either Monzon or Hagler because he is too crafty while still having all of Hagler's mean streak.
That really would have been a great fight,one of them would have had to stop trying to outclever the other and really let it go.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grinch
:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Youngblood
Anyway. Great read.
prime Hagler v Hopkins would have been a Classic.
As much as Im a fan of Hopkins,I think Hagler would have let his hands go first.
Neither one of them would have gone down,but I think Hagler's early work would have taken it.
It's also a certainty that whoever lost would bitch about the decision for the next 30 years or so tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyThat really would have been a great fight,one of them would have had to stop trying to outclever the other and really let it go.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grinch:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Youngblood
Anyway. Great read.
prime Hagler v Hopkins would have been a Classic.
As much as Im a fan of Hopkins,I think Hagler would have let his hands go first.
Neither one of them would have gone down,but I think Hagler's early work would have taken it.
Its interesting because we've seen two versions of Hopkins. 1 version was ferocious like Hagler, with better defense, but less power. Then the second version was an old slickster who knew how to do anything to win a fight, but more importantly nobody ever really nullified Hagler's offensive arsenal, while I don't think I've seen anybody including RJJ, Pavlik, Trinidad, De La Hoya, and Calzaghe be effective offensively against Hopkins.
Anyways sorry for bringing him up, Its just I would have loved to have seen them battle out the middleweights supremecy.
Marvelous piece of writing ICB! Hats off, you outdid yourself on this one, if at all possible!
The Marvin Hagler I followed (boxing career), beats anybody and everybody. I don't know if that is just the huge fan in me, or reality. Hard decision, especially after many, many years, have already gone past the real scores of those fights. The years have dulled or blurred the detail, and it seems memory will enhance by default.
Too much appreciation of the "Marvelous One" I guess... makes it incredibly hard for me to think any fighter can come close to eclipse, nor even equal his dominance in the middleweight division in boxing!
By the way... as I scrolled through the list of Hagler's opponents in the championship years, from ICB's list, only the Lee fight stand as the only fight I did not see on TV live (with a little tape delay).
I would think by the coverage given Hagler around that time, by the TV network from my ol' neck of the woods, you can't help but be a fan, easily... the product on display is first class bar none!
Personally I think you got it the wrong way round. I think that Hagler is the greatest Middleweight of all time and maybe not the best. I think that RJJ is ther best ever and would have been the greatest MW champ of all time had he stayed there and if him and Hagler could have faced each other in their primes in some kind of dream match I think Jones would take a decision win.
Absolutely excellent write up though. Probably the best I've ever seen on here!
Not sure who is the Greatest Middleweight to be honest though I am not a fan of Monzon from what I have seen.
Hagler was superb and was often criticized like Calzaghe for not having the competition until later.
What I am sure about is that ICB has written one superb article - hard pressed to remember a better one.
Bernard got beat by Roy Jones at Middleweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I've read a few of your posts and have come to the conclusion that you don't know what the fuck your talking about. Am I right? I'm not wrong.:D
Roy never stayed at middleweight thus couldn't be considered one really. He only fought like 4-5 fights considered to actually be at middleweight, and he broke his hand, but offensively he didn't look super great against Hopkins, both of them were green at the time.
Do you know what the fuck you are talking about Welsh? Hopkins beat everybody at the middleweight division for 20 title defenses, had two close fights with Jermain Taylor, then went up and beat Tarver, Wright, arguably Calzaghe, and now Pavlik. Nobody has ever looked good against Hopkins. Only Roy Jones Jr has beaten him decisively, and only Roy was really able to land effectively on him, but even then Roy wasn't able to get off combinations or pot shot very effectively.
True point about Roy not looking super great against Hopkins but then again who did? I've never seen anyone look good against Hopkins and considering Roy had the broken hand I think he showed his greatness against another great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Shame we didn't realise at the time that two all time greats were fighting each other. I think it was on the undercard of a Riddick Bowe fight. Could you imagine Roy or Bernard being an undercard to anyone now?
Can anybody using people's work please give credit to the author. Also, please just post a few lines from the original work and then a link to the host website. This protects us from any legal issues, that we have been threatened with in the past
Cheers
Original author/link
Marvin "Marvelous" Hagler
I honestly wonder if you take RJJ out of the picture who would be the best guy at or around the middleweight division over the years
Calzaghe? Hopkins? Hagler? Monzon? Leonard? prime James Toney? Michael Nunn(had he stayed away from drugs)? Gerald McClellan had he not been so badly damaged before he reached his potential.
Especially the first four were all great at/around MW, it would be interesting to see them all go at it.
I wish we could of saw best versions fight one another I not sure Hopkins could beat a Jones but would of liked to see it when they werent so green but there weight never aloud it to happen so o well i guess i while never see it but people you just mention i think Hagler and Monzon could hang with Hopkins and the version of Jones that fought at MW hell i think even Leonard could of ruled as well but the only version i saw at the weight was kinda past what he once was and that eye enjury not so sure how much that really effected him i wonder if he could land if he have the power to knock Jones out but i not so sure how much power Leonard had at the weight because he only fought Hagler which no way Leonard could knock that guy out no one seem to just a thought on what i think go down as for Monzon think Leonard could run and pot shot not so sure how a Hopkins vs Leonard fight would look like it might be ugly but who really knows i think it would just be a clinch feast most likly not sure though.
I don't think Leonard could beat jones at MW. Even though he was a young fighter he fought and covincingly beat a 28 year old Hopkins. Leonard used his speed to win at the higher weights but Jones is far faster IMO at MW than Leonard and no question he punched a damn site harder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Well i think Leonard had the chin to with stand Jones punching but also he had the power to land the question i had is if he landed often enough would he have the power to knock Jones out that was my question was how good do you think Leonards power was at the weight of mw.