The Amazing Race: Pacquiao vs. JM Marquez for P4P supremacy

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

I like both Pac AND Juan Manuel Marquez, so I believe I can speak without much of a bias toward either. And although Pac's TKO of Oscar was incredible, given the amount of weight divisions Pac had to move up (not to mention how personally rewarding it was for me)... everyone knows that Oscar was shot. Meanwhile, Juan Diaz is a dangerous, non-stop punching machine who had JMM in trouble during the early rounds, and only JMM's veteran mastery of the ring and his true grit allowed him to finally KO Diaz.

So to me, JMM's victory was more impressive, even if only slightly so.

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Yes, JMM's win is impressive... It's slightly more impressive than PAC's win over Hoya... But if you put things together, PAC's wins over JMM, Diaz and Hoya is definitely greater than JMM's wins on JDiaz and Casa...
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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

I like both Pac AND Juan Manuel Marquez, so I believe I can speak without much of a bias toward either. And although Pac's TKO of Oscar was incredible, given the amount of weight divisions Pac had to move up (not to mention how personally rewarding it was for me)... everyone knows that Oscar was shot. Meanwhile, Juan Diaz is a dangerous, non-stop punching machine who had JMM in trouble during the early rounds, and only JMM's veteran mastery of the ring and his true grit allowed him to finally KO Diaz.

So to me, JMM's victory was more impressive, even if only slightly so.

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Yes, JMM's win is impressive... It's slightly more impressive than PAC's win over Hoya... But if you put things together, PAC's wins over JMM, Diaz and Hoya is definitely greater than JMM's wins on JDiaz and Casa...
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JMM's fights with Pac were close and inconclusive... so scratch that one. And a shot DLH doesn't measure up to a prime Casamayor. I don't agree with you.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

I like both Pac AND Juan Manuel Marquez, so I believe I can speak without much of a bias toward either. And although Pac's TKO of Oscar was incredible, given the amount of weight divisions Pac had to move up (not to mention how personally rewarding it was for me)... everyone knows that Oscar was shot. Meanwhile, Juan Diaz is a dangerous, non-stop punching machine who had JMM in trouble during the early rounds, and only JMM's veteran mastery of the ring and his true grit allowed him to finally KO Diaz.

So to me, JMM's victory was more impressive, even if only slightly so.

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Yes, JMM's win is impressive... It's slightly more impressive than PAC's win over Hoya... But if you put things together, PAC's wins over JMM, Diaz and Hoya is definitely greater than JMM's wins on JDiaz and Casa...
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JMM's fights with Pac were close and inconclusive... so scratch that one. And a shot DLH doesn't measure up to a prime Casamayor. I don't agree with you.

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I'm going by the record books, we can't scratch PAC's win over JMM... Also, we all agree that it's a close one and whoever got the W, it was the judges call and we got no problem with that...

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Yes, JMM's win is impressive... It's slightly more impressive than PAC's win over Hoya... But if you put things together, PAC's wins over JMM, Diaz and Hoya is definitely greater than JMM's wins on JDiaz and Casa...
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JMM's fights with Pac were close and inconclusive... so scratch that one. And a shot DLH doesn't measure up to a prime Casamayor. I don't agree with you.

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I'm going by the record books, we can't scratch PAC's win over JMM... Also, we all agree that it's a close one and whoever got the W, it was the judges call and we got no problem with that...

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Wow..:o..have you ever had a problem with a judges call?Dont believe everything you read ;)

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

JMM's fights with Pac were close and inconclusive... so scratch that one. And a shot DLH doesn't measure up to a prime Casamayor. I don't agree with you.

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I'm going by the record books, we can't scratch PAC's win over JMM... Also, we all agree that it's a close one and whoever got the W, it was the judges call and we got no problem with that...

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Wow..:o..have you ever had a problem with a judges call?Dont believe everything you read ;)

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Boxrec = Bible

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by The Shadow

Pacquiao is definitely p4p right now. A match-up between him and J.M.M. for a third time is a fight of great interest. However, I would like to see Mayweather come out of retirement to fight Pacquiao after he finishes off Hatton.
As elusive and defensively supreme as Mayweather is, I don't think his beard has ever been tested. And as awkward and confusing Pacquiao is, I can't see him not landing a solid shot on Mayweather.
I think that's the fight to be made. Mayweather will not stay in retirement - especially with so much money on the table for such a classic fight.

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JMM called out PBF after his win over Juan Diaz yesterday... Some think it's a slap on PAC as JMM stated he's calling out the best P4P boxer out there that's not "afraid" to fight him and he consider that man as PBF...

If PBF comes out of retirement, I think he prefer to fight PAC as against JMM or Mosley or Cotto...
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Who said Pac will take a fight with PBF? If he wont fight JMM again what makes you think he will take one with PBF?;)

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Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" Medina

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by The Shadow

Pacquiao is definitely p4p right now. A match-up between him and J.M.M. for a third time is a fight of great interest. However, I would like to see Mayweather come out of retirement to fight Pacquiao after he finishes off Hatton.
As elusive and defensively supreme as Mayweather is, I don't think his beard has ever been tested. And as awkward and confusing Pacquiao is, I can't see him not landing a solid shot on Mayweather.
I think that's the fight to be made. Mayweather will not stay in retirement - especially with so much money on the table for such a classic fight.

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JMM called out PBF after his win over Juan Diaz yesterday... Some think it's a slap on PAC as JMM stated he's calling out the best P4P boxer out there that's not "afraid" to fight him and he consider that man as PBF...

If PBF comes out of retirement, I think he prefer to fight PAC as against JMM or Mosley or Cotto...
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Who said Pac will take a fight with PBF? If he wont fight JMM again what makes you think he will take one with PBF?;)

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Better legacy and tremendous money... Retired P4P no. 1 versus the current P4P no. 1 ...
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Same thread. Same post

The difference between recent opponents pretty much tells the difference between the fighters. Lets take a unbiased look.

Marquez came to the Lightweight division looking to face it's undisputed champion and top fighter. He found him in Joel Casamayor. It was a struggle but Marquez won and became the first man ever to stop the great Casamayor. If Nate Campbell would of made weight, i have no doubt Marquez would faced the winner of Campbell-Joan Guzman. Marquez could of sat on the sidelines or faced some stiff to just stay busy. But Marquez ain't like that. So he takes on the next available option. Juan Diaz. In Diaz's hometown. Any chance Marquez loses his title due to home judging goes out the window when Marquez becomes the first man ever to stop Diaz.

After getting his 2nd gift and than avoiding a 3rd fight with Marquez, Pacquiao moves to Lightweight. All the top fighters are available and waiting. Joel Casamayor, Nate Campbell, Juan Diaz and Joan Guzman. So are some of the 2nd tier fighters. Julio Diaz and Michael Katsidis. Pacquiao decides to face 3rd tier David Diaz. A fighter who won a vacant title from a non-champion. And had been stopped before by an average puncher. Predictaly Pac stops him. After being called out by Casamayor, Campbell, Marquez, Diaz and Edwin Valero. Pac decides to fight Oscar De La Hoya. A fight that looked to be dangerous on paper. But keep in mind Pac only took the fight cuz his trainer Freddie Roach had first hand knowledge on information nobody else knew. That Oscar was shot. So what first looked like a dangerous fight in reality was a cake walk. Cake walk indeed. Pac easily beats a De La Hoya who looked liked he would of easily lost to Ivan Calderon as well.

When you actually take the time and actually look at the facts the difference in fighters is obvious. One seeks the toughest opposition. The other would perfer to hand pick his opponents. And that's why Marquez is without a doubt pound for pound number 1.
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Greeat post VD your best ever;D

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

When you actually take the time and actually look at the facts the difference in fighters is obvious. One seeks the toughest opposition. The other would prefer to hand pick his opponents. And that's why Marquez is without a doubt pound for pound number 1.
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Your argument that PAC was handpicking his opponents is totally wrong... The fact that it's Hoya who was handpicking PAC already made your statement ridiculous...

Also PAC was not Hoya's first choice as his opponent... We all knew Hoya wanted a PBF rematch but PBF retired... Then Hoya offered Hatton the fight but Hatton declined... Hoya then turned to PAC which PAC bravely accepted but he was heavily criticized for going only for the huge money... Eventually PAC proved them all wrong by destroying Hoya...

Regarding the David Diaz fight, I can remember that PAC was all set to fight David Diaz even before the JMM rematch... PAC was just being considerate and gave JMM a chance to convincingly beat him coz he's already having problems making 130 lbs...

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

When you actually take the time and actually look at the facts the difference in fighters is obvious. One seeks the toughest opposition. The other would prefer to hand pick his opponents. And that's why Marquez is without a doubt pound for pound number 1.
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Your argument that PAC was handpicking his opponents is totally wrong... The fact that it's Hoya who was handpicking PAC already made your statement ridiculous...

Also PAC was not Hoya's first choice as his opponent... We all knew Hoya wanted a PBF rematch but PBF retired... Then Hoya offered Hatton the fight but Hatton declined... Hoya then turned to PAC which PAC bravely accepted but he was heavily criticized for going only for the huge money... Eventually PAC proved them all wrong by destroying Hoya...

Regarding the David Diaz fight, I can remember that PAC was all set to fight David Diaz even before the JMM rematch... PAC was just being considerate and gave JMM a chance to convincingly beat him coz he's already having problems making 130 lbs...

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It's like when people said Mighty Mike couldn't knockdown Jesse Feliciano twice in the fight, so he had to prove them wrong by doing it 3 times in the first round.

Ive said it once if not a good thousand times now.

Pacquiao will get horribly found out against hatton and for all his class and skill just WILL NOT have the power to mix it with the big boys at 140+.

So he stopped a weight drained unwell de-la hoya in 8 rounds.Im pretty sure even a nate campbell or juan diaz would of stopped de-la hoya that night also had they of been given a chance, and someone with the power of a hatton, cotto, mosley etc would of had oscar covered in claret and out of there within 5.

Marquez will be a much bigger hit in the middle weights as he is physically much better for it.

Pacquiao was/is a complete animal at 126/130 - he wont be half that at 140+

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

I like both Pac AND Juan Manuel Marquez, so I believe I can speak without much of a bias toward either. And although Pac's TKO of Oscar was incredible, given the amount of weight divisions Pac had to move up (not to mention how personally rewarding it was for me)... everyone knows that Oscar was shot. Meanwhile, Juan Diaz is a dangerous, non-stop punching machine who had JMM in trouble during the early rounds, and only JMM's veteran mastery of the ring and his true grit allowed him to finally KO Diaz.

So to me, JMM's victory was more impressive, even if only slightly so.

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Please, Oscar was dominated as was David Diaz throughout the whole fight. JMM won stopped both Juan Diaz and Joel Casamayor, but those fights were very close, and his opponents were landing nearly as much as he was agains them. I would bet money that Pacquiao would beat both of them easier than JMM did.

Look at both of them against Barrera: Pacquiao beat Barrera much more one sidedly, while Marquez's fight with Antonio was competitive.

Juan Diaz lost to Nate Campbell, Oscar has lost to Mayweather and Hopkins before facing Pacquiao, he looked good at 150 against Forbes, winning nearly every round. Pacquiao made Oscar look more shot than he actually was, and I still say Oscar would beat some of the top WW's out there.

Not only that, but Pacquiao has been improving while JMM is now on the decline, he's easier to hit, he stands and trades more, even though he is technically sound, he isn't the same guy he was just a few years ago. Pacquiao still has all his speed, power, and he only getting better technically.

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

Ive said it once if not a good thousand times now.

Pacquiao will get horribly found out against hatton and for all his class and skill just WILL NOT have the power to mix it with the big boys at 140+.

So he stopped a weight drained unwell de-la hoya in 8 rounds.Im pretty sure even a nate campbell or juan diaz would of stopped de-la hoya that night also had they of been given a chance, and someone with the power of a hatton, cotto, mosley etc would of had oscar covered in claret and out of there within 5.

Marquez will be a much bigger hit in the middle weights as he is physically much better for it.

Pacquiao was/is a complete animal at 126/130 - he wont be half that at 140+

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Fuck that bull shit, Juan Diaz wouldn't be able to hurt Oscar at all, neither would Nate Campbell. I bet Pacquiao will be an animal at 135 and up, he's shown it in his last 2 fights that because of the speed differential he can actually do more against the big boys.

I am not sure if he beats Ricky Hatton, but Ricky is one of the few 140 or higher guys that is really fast, There is no pressure fighter like him in all of boxing, while almost every other pressure fighter is methodical, he is very fast like most counter punchers, and he bursts forward with inhuman speed, not only that, but he is one of the few guys who still use lateral movement when their opponent is on the ropes which gives him great angles.

Just by beating the guys he has the way he has, Pacquiao has already proven his worth north of 130.

I hope JMM won't challenge PAC anymore (well he called out PBF instead of PAC, that's a good sign) for there's a greater chance that he will be KO'ed this time around specially at higher weights, like for example 140 lbs.

JMM faced life and death in his last 2 fights against Casa and Juan Diaz while PAC had an easy time slaying giants like David Diaz and Hoya... The added beatings JMM received from Casa and JuanD softened his body more and facing PAC for the 3rd time will finally make his body crumble to pieces...

IMO, JMM can't overtake PAC in amazing P4P race...
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Amazing Pound for Pound Race:

Right now I've got it like this

...................Manny Pacquiao
....................Juan Manuel Marquez
.................................................. .....Mighty Mike Arnaoutis

THERE CAN BE NO DISPUTE!