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How was Mayweather Oscar close to a draw? At the very least Mayweather won by 4 rounds... and Oscar couldn't land anything. Castillo fought a close fight with Mayweather that could have gone either way, I ahve Mayweather winning it, but its valid to see JLC winning it, the second fight Floyd clearly won by a few rounds, and neither Oscar nor JLC fight like Pacman.
:vd: Mayweather-Judah was competitive for like 4 rounds. Whoa! Corley landed like one big shot against Mayweather. And like 4 or 5 other good shots in the 4th round. Other than that he was dominated. As for Sanders? :lolhaha: Some how I don't think Mayweather is the same fighter he was in his 2nd pro fight. I think he might of improved a little since than. Just when I thought i read it all. Why not just bring up Pac's early ko loses and use that as prooof that he's weak in the body?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Watch Mayweather-Judah then get back to me. When Judah threw punches Mayweather was completely defensive and didn't throw punches. I am not saying MAyweather wouldn't have adapted because he did, but Judah always drops his workrate when punches are being thrown at him which is what happened, Pacquiao wouldn't. Sanders, Corley, and Judah all were southpaw and all landed on Mayweather with ease compared to orthodox fighters, none of them are as offensively gifted as Pacquiao.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
You are argueing with me about Floyd even though you clearly haven't seen Mayweather-Corley or else you would know Corley landed more than one big shot, maybe you should actually watch that fight before you make comments. I am not saying Judah almost won against Mayweather, but when he threw punches Mayweather certainly wasn't landing anything, and Judah landed that left cross almost whenever he threw it which wasn't enough. Sanders landed like 50% on Mayweather, 2nd fight or not Sanders was terrible and after that fight Floyd Snr said Mayweather wouldn't fight another southpaw as a pro, and he didn't until Corley becauase his defensive style doesn't work against southpaws.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise:vd: Mayweather-Judah was competitive for like 4 rounds. Whoa! Corley landed like one big shot against Mayweather. And like 4 or 5 other good shots in the 4th round. Other than that he was dominated. As for Sanders? :lolhaha: Some how I don't think Mayweather is the same fighter he was in his 2nd pro fight. I think he might of improved a little since than. Just when I thought i read it all. Why not just bring up Pac's early ko loses and use that as prooof that he's weak in the body?Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethWatch Mayweather-Judah then get back to me. When Judah threw punches Mayweather was completely defensive and didn't throw punches. I am not saying MAyweather wouldn't have adapted because he did, but Judah always drops his workrate when punches are being thrown at him which is what happened, Pacquiao wouldn't. Sanders, Corley, and Judah all were southpaw and all landed on Mayweather with ease compared to orthodox fighters, none of them are as offensively gifted as Pacquiao.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Floyd is my favorite fighter in boxing, and second favorite all time behind Roy Jones jr, but I am not foolish enough to ignore the fact that he is bad against southpaws and he hasn't faced somebody as good as Pacquiao, he has faced Zab Judah who was as fast as Manny, but Zab doesn't throw punches, and he doesn't use movement, and he burns out mentally before half a fight is over. Him and Pacquiao are as different as night and day. Clearly we saw the speed difference between Manny and Oscar, and Oscar's speed made Floyd go on the defensive and Oscar was fast enough that Floyd was having a difficult time countering, I think him trying to counter Hatton or Oscar off the ropes and trying to counter Pacquiao are two completely different things. If Floyd stays on the ropes against Manny, he could be in a dire trouble. If he can keep the fight in the middle of the ring and keep on changing up the range between him and Pacman then he would likely win, maybe even dominate Manny.
Did Calzaghe land effectively on Hopkins? No, despite the fact that Hopkins landed almost all the clean, effective punches the judges still awarded the fight to Joe because of his higher workrate. Floyd could land all the good shots, but if Pacman throws a lot and makes Floyd look very defensive who knows how the fight will turn out. Floyd only got a split decision against Oscar even though he should have won nearly every round through good defense and clean effective punching.
It's symantics, but to do the subject justice, I think it should be hypothetically, "Could Pac beat PBF?"
Of course Floyd could defeat Pac Man-and easily too. Rarely does Floyd get hit in the face flush and although I believe Pac Man has the speed to do it, it will not be very easy. But let's not put Pac Man on such a high pedestal after beating the washed up Oscar. Pac Still has to deal with the very physical Hitman.
My question is how do Mosley and Cotto pose more difficult tasks for Mayweather? Mosley throws combinations, but these days their are more like Calzaghe's combinations and less like the ones Shane threw as a lightweight. He doesn't fight at the same speed as his body moves at which was evident against Cotto who beat him to the punch repeatedly. Miguel Cotto is a great fighter, but he has slow movement and Mayweather is Zab Judah or Paulie, he is a lot harder to hit, and he hits a lot harder than Paulie. We saw Floyd take Baldomir out of their fight in the first 4 rounds because its so frustrating to fight him, while Baldomir never lost hope against Judah because if you keep coming Zab will eventually fold. Once Mayweather doesn't use his tradional defense against southpaws, he has more of a peak-a-boo defense and Zab was able to split his guard with the left hand at will, not only that but Floyd is very squared up against southpaws so its easier for Pacquiao to land his right hook as well.
You bring up an interesting point, being that Mayweather-Judah was competitive for 4 rounds. I think that's the story for many of Judah's fights due to certain issues we won't discuss :) (the man can dance though), but his speed is what allowed it to be competitive I think. Pac would not lose focus and at 140 I think his speed would definitely be enough to catch Floyd on more than one occasion. PBF has shown us match after match that he can force a fighter to enter his safe little utopia where he picks them apart. I doubt Manny would get sucked into that so easy. Once again with the speed, head movement, and constant pressure he could really make this awkward. While I don't think Mayweather will choke under this kind of pressure, I still want to see it happen at least once in his career.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise:vd: Mayweather-Judah was competitive for like 4 rounds. Whoa! Corley landed like one big shot against Mayweather. And like 4 or 5 other good shots in the 4th round. Other than that he was dominated. As for Sanders? :lolhaha: Some how I don't think Mayweather is the same fighter he was in his 2nd pro fight. I think he might of improved a little since than. Just when I thought i read it all. Why not just bring up Pac's early ko loses and use that as prooof that he's weak in the body?Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethWatch Mayweather-Judah then get back to me. When Judah threw punches Mayweather was completely defensive and didn't throw punches. I am not saying MAyweather wouldn't have adapted because he did, but Judah always drops his workrate when punches are being thrown at him which is what happened, Pacquiao wouldn't. Sanders, Corley, and Judah all were southpaw and all landed on Mayweather with ease compared to orthodox fighters, none of them are as offensively gifted as Pacquiao.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
All that being said, if Manny's rhythm is figured out he's $#^$@%@
Why are we asking if floyd can beat pac ?? Of course he can and probably would, we should be asking if pac could beat floyd. We know pac can be beaten we've seen it more than once the same can't be same for mayweather. People are going to be shocked if hatton winds up beating pac and let's see how many will want to see pac fight floyd then. Every week it's someone new.
I think now after reading some great posts here on this thread that Floyd would have a tougher time with Pac by far than he had with Zab.
As far as Hatton goes, ANYTHING could happen and it wouldnt surprise me. I personally hope Ricky KO's Pac.
In the eyes of many Floyd was already beaten by Castillo in the 1st fight. I also saw Floyd's 2nd fight against a Southpaw. It's 4 rounder where Floyd look bad & the decision was booed. I thought Floyd just got a Draw in that fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mar
Then we talked about Judah winning in the 1st 4 rds against floyd. And now you can compare Floyd & Pac against a common opponents. Pac dominates & TKO DLH while Floyd just got SD. Then this coming Beatdown of Hatton. I'm sure Pac will stop Hatton much earlier than floyd.
I will not be surprise if Pac comes in as the slight Favorite against PBF.
I agree with Violent Demise on the Corley-Mayweather fight. I just dusted it off the shelf and it was only one big shot and that was pretty much it for Corley. Mayweather won that fight easy. Look, Pac is riding high right now, but Mayweather against the smaller Pac Man right now would be like child abuse. Mayweather can adjust in the middle of fights and he has never shown stamina issues. My money goes on Mayweather, though I cannot stand him and love Pac Man.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethYou are argueing with me about Floyd even though you clearly haven't seen Mayweather-Corley or else you would know Corley landed more than one big shot, maybe you should actually watch that fight before you make comments. I am not saying Judah almost won against Mayweather, but when he threw punches Mayweather certainly wasn't landing anything, and Judah landed that left cross almost whenever he threw it which wasn't enough. Sanders landed like 50% on Mayweather, 2nd fight or not Sanders was terrible and after that fight Floyd Snr said Mayweather wouldn't fight another southpaw as a pro, and he didn't until Corley becauase his defensive style doesn't work against southpaws.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise:vd: Mayweather-Judah was competitive for like 4 rounds. Whoa! Corley landed like one big shot against Mayweather. And like 4 or 5 other good shots in the 4th round. Other than that he was dominated. As for Sanders? :lolhaha: Some how I don't think Mayweather is the same fighter he was in his 2nd pro fight. I think he might of improved a little since than. Just when I thought i read it all. Why not just bring up Pac's early ko loses and use that as prooof that he's weak in the body?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Floyd is my favorite fighter in boxing, and second favorite all time behind Roy Jones jr, but I am not foolish enough to ignore the fact that he is bad against southpaws and he hasn't faced somebody as good as Pacquiao, he has faced Zab Judah who was as fast as Manny, but Zab doesn't throw punches, and he doesn't use movement, and he burns out mentally before half a fight is over. Him and Pacquiao are as different as night and day. Clearly we saw the speed difference between Manny and Oscar, and Oscar's speed made Floyd go on the defensive and Oscar was fast enough that Floyd was having a difficult time countering, I think him trying to counter Hatton or Oscar off the ropes and trying to counter Pacquiao are two completely different things. If Floyd stays on the ropes against Manny, he could be in a dire trouble. If he can keep the fight in the middle of the ring and keep on changing up the range between him and Pacman then he would likely win, maybe even dominate Manny.
Did Calzaghe land effectively on Hopkins? No, despite the fact that Hopkins landed almost all the clean, effective punches the judges still awarded the fight to Joe because of his higher workrate. Floyd could land all the good shots, but if Pacman throws a lot and makes Floyd look very defensive who knows how the fight will turn out. Floyd only got a split decision against Oscar even though he should have won nearly every round through good defense and clean effective punching.
yea Corley hit Floyd. but Floyd adapted and won the fight easily, and people tend to play down Corley's power, he can punch, Oscar Larios gave Pacquiao fits, and made it a competitive fight, it wasn't really lopsided like the scores may imply, i had Manny winning i think 8 rounds to 4 (plus the knockdowns, and remember Larios tends to be chinny) , and a lot of the rounds were hard fought rounds so it's not like Manny is untouchableQuote:
Originally Posted by TaethYou are argueing with me about Floyd even though you clearly haven't seen Mayweather-Corley or else you would know Corley landed more than one big shot, maybe you should actually watch that fight before you make comments. I am not saying Judah almost won against Mayweather, but when he threw punches Mayweather certainly wasn't landing anything, and Judah landed that left cross almost whenever he threw it which wasn't enough. Sanders landed like 50% on Mayweather, 2nd fight or not Sanders was terrible and after that fight Floyd Snr said Mayweather wouldn't fight another southpaw as a pro, and he didn't until Corley becauase his defensive style doesn't work against southpaws.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise:vd: Mayweather-Judah was competitive for like 4 rounds. Whoa! Corley landed like one big shot against Mayweather. And like 4 or 5 other good shots in the 4th round. Other than that he was dominated. As for Sanders? :lolhaha: Some how I don't think Mayweather is the same fighter he was in his 2nd pro fight. I think he might of improved a little since than. Just when I thought i read it all. Why not just bring up Pac's early ko loses and use that as prooof that he's weak in the body?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Floyd is my favorite fighter in boxing, and second favorite all time behind Roy Jones jr, but I am not foolish enough to ignore the fact that he is bad against southpaws and he hasn't faced somebody as good as Pacquiao, he has faced Zab Judah who was as fast as Manny, but Zab doesn't throw punches, and he doesn't use movement, and he burns out mentally before half a fight is over. Him and Pacquiao are as different as night and day. Clearly we saw the speed difference between Manny and Oscar, and Oscar's speed made Floyd go on the defensive and Oscar was fast enough that Floyd was having a difficult time countering, I think him trying to counter Hatton or Oscar off the ropes and trying to counter Pacquiao are two completely different things. If Floyd stays on the ropes against Manny, he could be in a dire trouble. If he can keep the fight in the middle of the ring and keep on changing up the range between him and Pacman then he would likely win, maybe even dominate Manny.
Did Calzaghe land effectively on Hopkins? No, despite the fact that Hopkins landed almost all the clean, effective punches the judges still awarded the fight to Joe because of his higher workrate. Floyd could land all the good shots, but if Pacman throws a lot and makes Floyd look very defensive who knows how the fight will turn out. Floyd only got a split decision against Oscar even though he should have won nearly every round through good defense and clean effective punching.
Cotto and Mosley are REAL welterweights, and Cotto is in his prime, Manny can't even really be ranked or judged how he'll do at welter when he hasn't fought a live welter, he fought a weight drained shot DLH, it's not even a question on how the DLH that fought Quartey would have done against Manny, he would have put a gruesome beating on him, but time passes and that's not the fighter that was in the ring December, i think Manny can make the fight with Mayweather interesting, but if it happenes at 147 (where it most likely will) i think Mayweathers footspeed, power, and skill will be too much and he'll make Pacquiao look ordinaryQuote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Watching just the 4th round of Mayweather-Corley on YouTube doesn't count as watching the whole fight. Except for pockets of sucess Corley was dominated in the fight. And yes it matters that the Sanders fight was only his 2nd fight. Pro and AM's are almost 2 diffrent sports. Mayweather still was using a lot of AM style. Not to mention the fact he was also cut for the first time in that fight. Sanders was far from good. But he still a vet. Like i told you If your going to reach that far bring everything back.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethYou are argueing with me about Floyd even though you clearly haven't seen Mayweather-Corley or else you would know Corley landed more than one big shot, maybe you should actually watch that fight before you make comments. I am not saying Judah almost won against Mayweather, but when he threw punches Mayweather certainly wasn't landing anything, and Judah landed that left cross almost whenever he threw it which wasn't enough. Sanders landed like 50% on Mayweather, 2nd fight or not Sanders was terrible and after that fight Floyd Snr said Mayweather wouldn't fight another southpaw as a pro, and he didn't until Corley becauase his defensive style doesn't work against southpaws.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise:vd: Mayweather-Judah was competitive for like 4 rounds. Whoa! Corley landed like one big shot against Mayweather. And like 4 or 5 other good shots in the 4th round. Other than that he was dominated. As for Sanders? :lolhaha: Some how I don't think Mayweather is the same fighter he was in his 2nd pro fight. I think he might of improved a little since than. Just when I thought i read it all. Why not just bring up Pac's early ko loses and use that as prooof that he's weak in the body?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Floyd is my favorite fighter in boxing, and second favorite all time behind Roy Jones jr, but I am not foolish enough to ignore the fact that he is bad against southpaws and he hasn't faced somebody as good as Pacquiao, he has faced Zab Judah who was as fast as Manny, but Zab doesn't throw punches, and he doesn't use movement, and he burns out mentally before half a fight is over. Him and Pacquiao are as different as night and day. Clearly we saw the speed difference between Manny and Oscar, and Oscar's speed made Floyd go on the defensive and Oscar was fast enough that Floyd was having a difficult time countering, I think him trying to counter Hatton or Oscar off the ropes and trying to counter Pacquiao are two completely different things. If Floyd stays on the ropes against Manny, he could be in a dire trouble. If he can keep the fight in the middle of the ring and keep on changing up the range between him and Pacman then he would likely win, maybe even dominate Manny.
Did Calzaghe land effectively on Hopkins? No, despite the fact that Hopkins landed almost all the clean, effective punches the judges still awarded the fight to Joe because of his higher workrate. Floyd could land all the good shots, but if Pacman throws a lot and makes Floyd look very defensive who knows how the fight will turn out. Floyd only got a split decision against Oscar even though he should have won nearly every round through good defense and clean effective punching.
exactly, if they wanna bring up Sanders then bring up Rustico Torrecampo and Medgoen SingsuratQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseWatching just the 4th round of Mayweather-Corley on YouTube doesn't count as watching the whole fight. Except for pockets of sucess Corley was dominated in the fight. And yes it matters that the Sanders fight was only his 2nd fight. Pro and AM's are almost 2 diffrent sports. Mayweather still was using a lot of AM style. Not to mention the fact he was also cut for the first time in that fight. Sanders was far from good. But he still a vet. Like i told you If your going to reach that far bring everything back.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethYou are argueing with me about Floyd even though you clearly haven't seen Mayweather-Corley or else you would know Corley landed more than one big shot, maybe you should actually watch that fight before you make comments. I am not saying Judah almost won against Mayweather, but when he threw punches Mayweather certainly wasn't landing anything, and Judah landed that left cross almost whenever he threw it which wasn't enough. Sanders landed like 50% on Mayweather, 2nd fight or not Sanders was terrible and after that fight Floyd Snr said Mayweather wouldn't fight another southpaw as a pro, and he didn't until Corley becauase his defensive style doesn't work against southpaws.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Floyd is my favorite fighter in boxing, and second favorite all time behind Roy Jones jr, but I am not foolish enough to ignore the fact that he is bad against southpaws and he hasn't faced somebody as good as Pacquiao, he has faced Zab Judah who was as fast as Manny, but Zab doesn't throw punches, and he doesn't use movement, and he burns out mentally before half a fight is over. Him and Pacquiao are as different as night and day. Clearly we saw the speed difference between Manny and Oscar, and Oscar's speed made Floyd go on the defensive and Oscar was fast enough that Floyd was having a difficult time countering, I think him trying to counter Hatton or Oscar off the ropes and trying to counter Pacquiao are two completely different things. If Floyd stays on the ropes against Manny, he could be in a dire trouble. If he can keep the fight in the middle of the ring and keep on changing up the range between him and Pacman then he would likely win, maybe even dominate Manny.
Did Calzaghe land effectively on Hopkins? No, despite the fact that Hopkins landed almost all the clean, effective punches the judges still awarded the fight to Joe because of his higher workrate. Floyd could land all the good shots, but if Pacman throws a lot and makes Floyd look very defensive who knows how the fight will turn out. Floyd only got a split decision against Oscar even though he should have won nearly every round through good defense and clean effective punching.
I think Taeth has it right but I see the Pacman going to the body more. Roach has faced Mayweather before with Oscar so I think there is a factor there too. We'll just have to hope the fight comes about because that's really the only way we are going to know.