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He can possibly get his 7th division title from a Urango or a Berto if he wants to and the only boxer to do so if successful (what a legacy!)... The 7th weight class title won't come from a Mosley or a Cotto or a Clottey...;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
than if he wants a catch weight he should drop all this 7 weight class champion bullshitQuote:
Originally Posted by fan johnny
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BTW, what's the fuzz about catchweights?? If the boxers agreed to fight in a catchweight then he believed he can win that fight in that catchweight...
Or he was forced to agree to a catchweight because the other boxer has more say, has more negotiating power, more popular and dictates the conditions of the fight...
Simple as that...
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Here's the difference. Roach is putting all these weight requirements like DLH had to come down to 147, Mosley has to come down to 142, Cotto has to come down to 140, etc. These guys haven't been able to make these weights in many years! This isn't a Paul Williams or Ricky Hatton coming to a "weight class" and fighting guys at that weight class and it working out as them being the bigger fighter. Paul and Ricky have been making these weights and have been effective there. That is the real difference. Roach is asking full fledged bigger guys to come down to a point where they are weight drained and ineffective. Do you notice he has a different weight for each of the 3 fighters? That is his guess at where they will be weight drained. He gladly fought DLH at 147 but a real welterweight he all of a sudden won't. Hell, if Bernard Hopkins came down to welterweight I'd fight him. It sounds good on paper having that name on your resume but thats it.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnny
These aren't catchweights they are weight drained weights. There is a real and dangerous difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
No...but a big fat "L " could ;)....Mosley should not and won't come down to a Pacquiao.Ever hear the tale of the man going to the well one to many times?Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerHe can possibly get his 7th division title from a Urango or a Berto if he wants to and the only boxer to do so if successful (what a legacy!)... The 7th weight class title won't come from a Mosley or a Cotto or a Clottey...;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesthan if he wants a catch weight he should drop all this 7 weight class champion bullshitQuote:
Originally Posted by fan johnny
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As I've said, if the boxers agree to fight in a "weight-drained weight" then it's their sole responsibility to perform at that agreed "weight"... I think most of them agree to that "weight" and at the same time believed they can win the fight at that "weight"...Quote:
Originally Posted by blegitThese aren't catchweights they are weight drained weights. There is a real and dangerous difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
Some maybe are forced to agree to a certain "weight" but still accepted the fight because of other factors like money, moolah, dinero, fame, glory, legacy, etc.
If they (or their fans??) are really not comfortable of that certain "weight" then they should not accept the fight... Simple as that...
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Roach tries to give an edge, not juzz a slight one, to Pacquiao or the weight differences sicne Pacquiao can take it so well.
I agree, Mosley should not come down to a Pacquiao...;) If Mosley forces to come down to a Pacquiao, he could end up being pacquiao'ed...;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliNo...but a big fat "L " could ;)....Mosley should not and won't come down to a Pacquiao.Ever hear the tale of the man going to the well one to many times?Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerHe can possibly get his 7th division title from a Urango or a Berto if he wants to and the only boxer to do so if successful (what a legacy!)... The 7th weight class title won't come from a Mosley or a Cotto or a Clottey...;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
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For several months, Mosley been chasing the Pacquiao fight... He's not entertaining other fights but focusing only to a possible Pacquiao fight... He might give 142 a very very deep thought...;D
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I thought catchweight wer suppose to be so they can meet halfway in the middle not to give one fighter an advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerI agree, Mosley should not come down to a Pacquiao...;) If Mosley forces to come down to a Pacquiao, he could end up being pacquiao'ed...;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliNo...but a big fat "L " could ;)....Mosley should not and won't come down to a Pacquiao.Ever hear the tale of the man going to the well one to many times?Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
For several months, Mosley been chasing the Pacquiao fight... He's not entertaining other fights but focusing only to a possible Pacquiao fight... He might give 142 a very very deep thought...;D
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You're right the fighters should not accept the fight at these weights. But call it what it is though. This is a tactful way of not fighting someone unless you can almost guarantee they are ineffective. I won't fight this fighter unless they come down to a weight they haven't seen in many years. And that was in their youth. This is worse than pricing yourself out of a fight. PBF is getting all kinds of criticism for fighting JMM at a catchweight. And thats a real catchweight. JMM will be the smaller fighter but neither will be drained. I do agree with Roach that JMM's power has seemed to step up with his weight developing.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerAs I've said, if the boxers agree to fight in a "weight-drained weight" then it's their sole responsibility to perform at that agreed "weight"... I think most of them agree to that "weight" and at the same time believed they can win the fight at that "weight"...Quote:
Originally Posted by blegitThese aren't catchweights they are weight drained weights. There is a real and dangerous difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
Some maybe are forced to agree to a certain "weight" but still accepted the fight because of other factors like money, moolah, dinero, fame, glory, legacy, etc.
If they (or their fans??) are really not comfortable of that certain "weight" then they should not accept the fight... Simple as that...
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That is what a catchweight is suppose to be. And that is why Roach is not calling catchweights they are weight drained weights. These fighters can't make these weights and still be effective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" MedinaI thought catchweight wer suppose to be so they can meet halfway in the middle not to give one fighter an advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerI agree, Mosley should not come down to a Pacquiao...;) If Mosley forces to come down to a Pacquiao, he could end up being pacquiao'ed...;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
For several months, Mosley been chasing the Pacquiao fight... He's not entertaining other fights but focusing only to a possible Pacquiao fight... He might give 142 a very very deep thought...;D
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so its not a "catchweight" its juzz a "catch" thats kinda gay.:-\Quote:
Originally Posted by blegitThat is what a catchweight is suppose to be. And that is why Roach is not calling catchweights they are weight drained weights. These fighters can't make these weights and still be effective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" MedinaI thought catchweight wer suppose to be so they can meet halfway in the middle not to give one fighter an advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
It's Mosley who's been chasing the Pacquiao fight... PAC's coach said it, he's just protecting his boxer... No need for PAC to fight Mosley at 147... PAC might just wait for the winner of PBF-JMM...Quote:
Originally Posted by blegitYou're right the fighters should not accept the fight at these weights. But call it what it is though. This is a tactful way of not fighting someone unless you can almost guarantee they are ineffective. I won't fight this fighter unless they come down to a weight they haven't seen in many years. And that was in their youth. This is worse than pricing yourself out of a fight. PBF is getting all kinds of criticism for fighting JMM at a catchweight. And thats a real catchweight. JMM will be the smaller fighter but neither will be drained. I do agree with Roach that JMM's power has seemed to step up with his weight developing.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerAs I've said, if the boxers agree to fight in a "weight-drained weight" then it's their sole responsibility to perform at that agreed "weight"... I think most of them agree to that "weight" and at the same time believed they can win the fight at that "weight"...Quote:
Originally Posted by blegit
Some maybe are forced to agree to a certain "weight" but still accepted the fight because of other factors like money, moolah, dinero, fame, glory, legacy, etc.
If they (or their fans??) are really not comfortable of that certain "weight" then they should not accept the fight... Simple as that...
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Ok, the Italic is my bad. I originally posted over a week ago that I heard a radio report that Roach told Mosley to come down to 142, but no one responded. I skimmed though this post in a rush on my way out the door and caught crap like "bullshit", "avoid Mosley". and didn't really pick up on your point of being weight-drained. I used Williams as an example of the obvious advantages some fighters have using weight to illustrate it's part of the game. I don't hear anyone saying Williams gets no respect for winning over guys at welter when his a more natural middle weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI honestly can't understand what you're trying to say in the bolded sentence.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnny
However, to address your other point: weight-advantages have always been a part of boxing, obviously. However, there is a huge difference between fighting smaller fighters at a higher weight-class (ie. Hatton - Lazcano) and fighting a weight-drained opponent. Your post seems to demonstrate that you don't understand how much being weight-drained affects a fighter, it has a much greater impact than that of a fighter competing well above his natural weight, though both are detrimental. If Pac is fighting guys (particularly older opponents) at a weight in which they haven't been able to fight for years, it very much detracts from the victory as it would be contested in a vastly uneven way. If Pac fights and beats (or even looks good in losing) fighters like Cotto and Mosley, I'll give him a ton of credit. However, if he forces them to meet at a completely unfair catchweight, then in my mind it negates much of the glory associated with the victory.
All Roach is doing is his job, which happens to include the issue of weight and negotiating around the terms of a Mega fight. Exactly what Mosley wants. Same as Dela Hoya / Pacquiao. When bargaining you start low, get a high counter offer and meet somewhere in the middle. 2 or 3 pounds below 147 shouldn't weigh-drain Mosley and will probably help him size wise over Pacquiao. Since Pacquiao has never come into the ring above 150. I never heard or read Pacquiao wouldn't fight Mosley at 147. I only heard him say 140 was a good weight for him.
I think Cotto is a better match up for Pacquiao than Mosley. Mosley has a huge reach advantage. If I were Roach, I'd do exactly the same thing. If Mosley wants the fight so bad, make him come down. It's just part of the game.
You make good sense but there are a lot of things in boxing that are just a part of the game that should be criticized and that is why so many people are criticizing Roach's bullcrap moves. The public wants to see good fighters make weight effectively. It warrants criticism by the masses. What if PBF said he would only fight Cotto at 140, Mosley at 142, and Williams at 143? People would shellack him with overwhelming criticism. These are welterweights fight them at 147 or stay in your division. Roach wants the name of the fighter and the fighter himself to be a shell. And Roach has said that he will not let Pac fight at 147 again. So according to his word there will be no fight at 147. What people are getting mad about is that Roach will let Pac fight at 147 but only if it is a junior middleweight or higher coming down. This in essence is saying that Pac will not fight a notable guy unless we have our way and our way is not just all the money but a weight drained fighter also. We might as well just skip the games and go to Pac/JMM III. Unless Roach feels like actually fighting more than one calculated guy at either 135,140, or 147. And Williams is not a natural middleweight he didn't even have to cut weight for his middleweight fights. Williams is just a freak of nature. A guy 6'2" with a heavyweight reach. He has to eat more during training camp when he fights at middle because he'll be too low. He usually comes into his fights around 157.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnnyOk, the Italic is my bad. I originally posted over a week ago that I heard a radio report that Roach told Mosley to come down to 142, but no one responded. I skimmed though this post in a rush on my way out the door and caught crap like "bullshit", "avoid Mosley". and didn't really pick up on your point of being weight-drained. I used Williams as an example of the obvious advantages some fighters have using weight to illustrate it's part of the game. I don't hear anyone saying Williams gets no respect for winning over guys at welter when his a more natural middle weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI honestly can't understand what you're trying to say in the bolded sentence.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnny
However, to address your other point: weight-advantages have always been a part of boxing, obviously. However, there is a huge difference between fighting smaller fighters at a higher weight-class (ie. Hatton - Lazcano) and fighting a weight-drained opponent. Your post seems to demonstrate that you don't understand how much being weight-drained affects a fighter, it has a much greater impact than that of a fighter competing well above his natural weight, though both are detrimental. If Pac is fighting guys (particularly older opponents) at a weight in which they haven't been able to fight for years, it very much detracts from the victory as it would be contested in a vastly uneven way. If Pac fights and beats (or even looks good in losing) fighters like Cotto and Mosley, I'll give him a ton of credit. However, if he forces them to meet at a completely unfair catchweight, then in my mind it negates much of the glory associated with the victory.
All Roach is doing is his job, which happens to include the issue of weight and negotiating around the terms of a Mega fight. Exactly what Mosley wants. Same as Dela Hoya / Pacquiao. When bargaining you start low, get a high counter offer and meet somewhere in the middle. 2 or 3 pounds below 147 shouldn't weigh-drain Mosley and will probably help him size wise over Pacquiao. Since Pacquiao has never come into the ring above 150. I never heard or read Pacquiao wouldn't fight Mosley at 147. I only heard him say 140 was a good weight for him.
I think Cotto is a better match up for Pacquiao than Mosley. Mosley has a huge reach advantage. If I were Roach, I'd do exactly the same thing. If Mosley wants the fight so bad, make him come down. It's just part of the game.