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Kostya had court distractions when he lost to Phillips. No real excuse though, he lost, same way to Hatton. Both time history will judge the better man lost. Phillips won, but nobody in boxing even rates Phillips. Kostya is going to the hall of fame first ballot, as soon as he officially decides to declare, now it's questionable whether Hatton ever will.
Kostya is rated as the second greatest fighter at 140 ever. Some rate Aaron Pryor ahead of him. All Marquez ever did was go up in weight. Both Marquez and Tszyu are going to the hall of fame, but if you asked most guys who would win at 140, Tszyu easy. Even if you take him back to a weight class lower and compare p4p, they have some similarities, Marquez and Tszyu.
The fact is, Tszyu was quicker when younger, he has a way better right hand, than Marquez, they counter punch similar, but Kostya can pressure fight better, and is p4p more powerful ouncher. Marquez went upo the weights, Tszyu didnt.
Tszyu could've started at 135, if he was 35 still fighting at the same weight he started at, and couldve fought up to 147 I suppose. He didn't. Marquez went up the weights, whule Tszyu has been world champion WAY longer than Marquez has been.
And yes.........you can make all the excuses you like, Chavez was of a similar age when he lost as to what Kostya was when he too lost. The fact that an old man was favoured by the bookies over Hatton tells you some tjings Tszyu had over Chavez. The facts are, Tszyu was better tahn Chavez at the same old age, and beat the best fighter Mexico ever had. He was an old man, JUST LIKE TSZYU.
:vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by KostyaTszyuTeam
Number 2?Quote:
Originally Posted by KostyaTszyuTeam
LOL Come on now are you Kostas dad? So you rank him higher than JCC?
I think, if I was being honest, Julio Cesar Chavez's long reign of victories surpasses Kostyas achievements. They did different things. Kostya was never dominated in even one pro fight. The worst he ever looked, was infact when he fought Hatton. Against Phillips, he actually got stopped, but they were both trading punches late, and he looked OK early to mid fight.
Chavez clearly got killed by Whittaker. Destroyed by De La Hoya, was lucky against Meldric Taylor etc. Who knows how many other corrupt decisons went his way in Mexico. Both great fighters, but Chavez would be rated probablt that bit higher for the volume of his wins.
Tszyu has a unique place. Rated top 2 140 fighters ever. The other guy, Pryor, while an offensive juggernaught, had alot shorter reign. Kostya had a 10 year reign as champion. So he has his unique place. The fact nothing went his way against Ricky Hatton, then he is forced to quit with his corner pulling him to no protest on his behalf, he turned old in that fight. The worst I ever saw him. Ricky also got the perfect conditions. A style of fight with a ref who didnt intervene much.
I think both guys fighting in their porime would be interesting, especually in Vegas. Probably one of the harder styles for Tszyu, but he didnt look good that night. He loves having a touch of space that he would've got more of in Vegas. Also, every fighter Hatton fought post Tszyu, was thinking this was the guy who beat Tszyu. tszyu underestimated Hatton, because you dont concede every advantage as champion, like fight in conditions you never fought in befire at 2am with rules like IBF can pick any local Ref, and not underestimate you opponent.
In the end, Ricky Hatton beat a great figher. He was on the older side, but yes, he could still fight. I was just stirring you abit. I hope Hatton has two more fights and retires with one of the recognised belts, calling it a day.
Ohh...as a 140 pounder I rate him one notch higher than Chavez, simply because he did more at 140 than Chavez, and was a trully great fighter anyway in his own right. Some guys rate him over Aaron Pryor, longer reighn , and Prypr only ever beat one top top opponent. The other guys, Pryor was just an electric offensive fighter, and alot was projection, and he didnt reign anywhere near as long as Tszyu, but concensus probably is
1. Pryor 2. Tszyu. 3. Chavez...........(Chavez rated higher alltime, though not at 140 exclusively, if you follow my point)
I don't know why people are responding to his posts. Look at his username. He's just a wind up merchant.
You called it Lefty....I was just trying to wind some guys up. My honest opinion, I was shocked at the Hatton performance, and blame his trainer just as much. Hatton has done some good things. I was just stirring you for a while..
Fuck me, it's been a bad week for em hasn't it.
Nver fails to amaze me how people claim Tszyu was Old/Shot etc when he fought Hatton. He was only 35, had had less fights than Hatton, he had not been in any wars and he had just come off arguable his career best win and best performance. Suddenly in between fighting Mitchell and Hatton something happend to make Tszyu a shot fighter :rolleyes: - It's laughable
He fought 3 rounds against Mitchell. He hadn't fought in over two years in practical terms, and most of his fights were against current or former world champions, even before he became a champion. A very high ratio of current or former world champions.
I wouldn't say Shot, interms that he can't fight, because he was never dominated in any fight to the point where he was totally annihilated, but he was certainly past his best, and right to be had. In other words, OVER THE HILL, an Old Man. For an Old Man, he looked ok. Since when has 4 months short of 36 been Fresh for boxing.
What because Hopkins and Mosely can stick around. Look at old man De La Hoya, who turned old before our eyes retiuring at, surprise surprise, 35. Tszyu was an old man..
Hatton's style commands a lot of determination, strength and sheer force of will something he's been running out of as of late. Many have preached to him in his past that his life style would eventually catch up to him. If he wanted to prolong his boxing career he would need to adjust his life style to suite.
I wouldn't label Hatton a "Fluke" he is not even close to fitting that label. It's easy to come up with criticism that sound plausible once a fighter lost and hit them when they are down.
Hatton's style is a pressure fighter who swarms you with punches. He has tremendous skill boxing on the inside and can cut the ring better than most. His style does not match up well against some fighters. His career could have been managed so that he faced only fighters where he "looks" good rather than to risk losing by facing fighters that are contrary to his style. But that is not what Hatton wanted. He wanted only to face the Best fighters. He showed the people he has the heart of a warrior and I think that's why so many people loved him.
Totally agree, no disrespect to Manny he took Hatton apart and would of been to cute and fast agaisnt any version of Hatton, but there is only so many fights that you can use your face as defensive tool before it starts to take its toll. Hattons face looks like someone has dropped a piano on it for a reason and the signs were there in the Lazcano fight his punch resistance was on the slippery slope, and as pretty boy has stated many times this week Hatton has had alot of wars.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnny
Thaxton,Collazo,Lazcano,Mcgee,Mayweather etc etc He has taken alot of shots and has fought alot of hard rounds.
Hatton was hungry, he was not lucky, he walked through everything Kostya threw at him and looked like he was willing to do anything to win. He needed to win that fight and it showed in his determination. Hatton was a totally different fighter when he was hungry.Quote:
Originally Posted by KostyaTszyuTeam
The only name on that list is Mayweather btw.........all the others aren't anywhere near the hall of fame.
Hatton looked like a club fighter against Pacquiao, a guy who lost twice to Marquez, forget what the judges say.
Hatton cant fight southpaws very well. The right hook from the stance of a southpaw catches him most times. What he actually needed to was partially follow Mayweathers game plan, the other part, execute it. He needed to jam Pacquiaos lead right hand, feignt, and and paw his way in duck under and close distance. What he did was throw a looping left hook Pacquiao came over the top of at will. Had Pacquiao been the exact same fighter, but right handed, the fight was going to the cards. Both De La Hoya and Hatton were made for Pacquiao, because they bothe dont have weapons against a southpaw.
The best punch against a southpaw is the straight right. Further, as Pacquiao attacks, that is perfect for a counter puncher. IE Mayweather is fast counter puncher. Tszyu was a power counter puncher with his right. Kostya was exceptional against southpaws, because he had one of the best right hands in boxing. His power right was way better than Marquez, and look what trouble Marquez gave Pacquiao.
Hatton doesnt have a right hand, and unlike Oscar, doesnt have the jabs and feignts. With Oscar though he stays back. Hatton had to come inside. I thought Mayweather is partially to blame. Ricky looked confused. He couldnt have chosen a worse opponent stylistically.
Guys like Mayweather, if you thought Marquez could counter punch Pacquiao, Mayweather can do it way better. Marquez actually landed his straight right afew times. Imagine a Tszyu right landing on Pacquiao. Stylistically its Tszyus dream, as most Southpaws he had to chase and create pressure. If the guy wants to come into that enormous riight hand, he has a problem, in theory. What isnt in theory, is ig/when Maywether beats Marquez, he will try this out with a fast right against Pacquiao. Expect Pacquiao to sit back a fraction, try draw Mayweather out, then come in. Trying to jam Mayweathers offensive flow. I think PBF workd him out and out boxes him middle to end.