There are plenty of entertaining fights he could make at 154 though. He could have a Gatti-esque career.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
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There are plenty of entertaining fights he could make at 154 though. He could have a Gatti-esque career.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
This is what every young prospect goes through after their first loss. He's done no hope for a title, people write em off. Its the guys that come back and get better that are truely destined to be greats. I will see how he bounces back before writing him off. He's definitely not too old to learn new tricks.
They were talking during the fight that he had problems making weight. It's not a coincidence that people usually have bad performances when they struggle making weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
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Originally Posted by killersheepThere are plenty of entertaining fights he could make at 154 though. He could have a Gatti-esque career.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
bit harsh to suggest one bad performance now completely demotes him to a gatti like underdog career.
To be fair before saturday many of us including myself were touting alfredo for great things and even on the back of a narrow points defeat to a man whos been in with quality opposition there were glimpses of class during the contest when he was able to back up a far rangeier fighter in those later rounds.
I dont see how a guy thats getting beat by kermit cintron can go on to become the world star people had hoped. But theres definitely an odd world title in there surely??
Amen.Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
As I said in another post I started to feel less optimistic about Angulo winning after hearing the talk about that. Even so, Cintron's by body language it looked like he wanted to quit at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by No ContestThey were talking during the fight that he had problems making weight. It's not a coincidence that people usually have bad performances when they struggle making weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
I also think Angulo's corner is partly to blame. Cintron was doing one nice thing to negate Angulo's right hand: He was rolling up his left shoulder and tucking his chin under it, a la PBF. Plus he was moving well.
Later in the fight Cintron was clearly bothered by Angulo's body attack. If they had urged Angulo to go after the body earlier it would have slowed him down, and his hands would have dropped. I think the outcome could very well have been different.
It also seems that anyone fighting Cintron should practice stepping back and throwing upper cuts, because even though he's worked on it, he still bends way over esp. when he's tired.
Yeah its not like he had a horrible outing, he just didnt get enough of the early rounds before Cintron got gassed. He had a good second half of the fight. I think Cintron was lucky to make it he looked like he was pushed to the brink in that 12th round.
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Originally Posted by No Contest
exactly
if you look at the live RBR i indicated at the time that HBOs telecast of the fight was extremely deceptive in that they were making it out to be a lot more lobsided for cintron than it actually was.
There were at least 2 of those 1st 6rounds that lederman had for cintron that angulo had nicked and i ended up having a scorecard of 115-113 for angulo.
Seriously some people on here that live and die by what their being told when watching it live should stick on a headset listen to music while scoring a close fight and i guarantee you`ll come out with a different score!!
I dont think so.We are real quick these days to disgard fighters off one loss,especially considering that Angulo himself is an unfinshed product....still learning and in contrast to Cintron,was the far more green guy going in.The issue may be the weight/conditioning......He has always come off as a slow of foot guy but he just could not sustain any attack,cut down Cintron.Cintron looked huge and frankly finally brought in and utilized a couple of key things he's been missing in the past,a 'set' of wavos and he maintained his boxing and was using that freakish frame and range.He had 'that look' in spots when it got late,Angulo just could not corner him.
I just hope he does not automatically jump up in weight,hes a good body hitter but not a one punch guy...and at Middle he will only be slower of foot.Has a rock for a head,Cintron cracked him early and he swayed but came right back.His cutting was not a major factor.Btw....how often is it that fighters have to climb three flights of stairs to get to and from the ring & locker room??Watching Angulo climb up thoses stairs after the fight said it all,I thought he was about to fall over.
Gatti was a two weight division major belt champion. At 130, he was top tier fighter. For a variety of reason, including his lifestyle, he couldn't make that weight for that long. He has a rough patch in the middle of his career, and he fought longer than he should have. If you only remember the Gatti who fought Oscar, Floyd, Baldy, and Gomez, than you would probably under rate him.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by killersheepThere are plenty of entertaining fights he could make at 154 though. He could have a Gatti-esque career.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
bit harsh to suggest one bad performance now completely demotes him to a gatti like underdog career.
To be fair before saturday many of us including myself were touting alfredo for great things and even on the back of a narrow points defeat to a man whos been in with quality opposition there were glimpses of class during the contest when he was able to back up a far rangeier fighter in those later rounds.
I dont see how a guy thats getting beat by kermit cintron can go on to become the world star people had hoped. But theres definitely an odd world title in there surely??
Gatti was much faster than Angulo and had better boxing skills when he chose to use them. He got outclassed against much a much better bigger Oscar and Floyd Mayweather. His last few fights he was shot.
Not to mention you guys are quick to write off fighters that havent even lost.. Cough...Cough Berto.. hmmmm cough ;D
You beat me to it, Gatti can be a bit underrated, he was far more naturally talented than Angulo, Angulo should consider himself extremely lucky if he has a Gatti-esque career.Quote:
Originally Posted by RozzySeanGatti was a two weight division major belt champion. At 130, he was top tier fighter. For a variety of reason, including his lifestyle, he couldn't make that weight for that long. He has a rough patch in the middle of his career, and he fought longer than he should have. If you only remember the Gatti who fought Oscar, Floyd, Baldy, and Gomez, than you would probably under rate him.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
bit harsh to suggest one bad performance now completely demotes him to a gatti like underdog career.
To be fair before saturday many of us including myself were touting alfredo for great things and even on the back of a narrow points defeat to a man whos been in with quality opposition there were glimpses of class during the contest when he was able to back up a far rangeier fighter in those later rounds.
I dont see how a guy thats getting beat by kermit cintron can go on to become the world star people had hoped. But theres definitely an odd world title in there surely??
Gatti was much faster than Angulo and had better boxing skills when he chose to use them. He got outclassed against much a much better bigger Oscar and Floyd Mayweather. His last few fights he was shot.
Arturo was a deserved champ but even the staunchest of gatti fan has to admit that the last 2-3 years of his career he got those big fights not through merit but in that he was exciting to watch all the time and his wide open defence provided a very solid chin.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFanYou beat me to it, Gatti can be a bit underrated, he was far more naturally talented than Angulo, Angulo should consider himself extremely lucky if he has a Gatti-esque career.Quote:
Originally Posted by RozzySeanGatti was a two weight division major belt champion. At 130, he was top tier fighter. For a variety of reason, including his lifestyle, he couldn't make that weight for that long. He has a rough patch in the middle of his career, and he fought longer than he should have. If you only remember the Gatti who fought Oscar, Floyd, Baldy, and Gomez, than you would probably under rate him.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
Gatti was much faster than Angulo and had better boxing skills when he chose to use them. He got outclassed against much a much better bigger Oscar and Floyd Mayweather. His last few fights he was shot.
Ricardo Mayorga has pretty much made a living of not being a succesful fighter but being a very exciting come forward, solid fighter which is what i fear may end up happening now to angulo
I've never thought Alfredo Anuglo was that good, Victor Ortiz is a better come forward fighter than Alfredo Angulo. And prospects like Abner Mares, Devon Alexander, Yuriorkis Gamboa, always looked like they have much more promising career's than Alfredo Angulo would ever have.
If Alfredo Angulo is the real deal he should of beaten Kermit Cintron, who is a good fighter but not that good and his power is slightly overrated aswell. Even a very limited fighter in Jessie Feliciano was giving Kermit Cintron much more problems.
And even the undersized and past it Lovemore N'dou done not that much worse than Alfredo Angulo. Im sorry but i can't see Alfredo Angulo getting better. He fights one way and if he can't break a fighter with a suspect heart.
Then he isn't that good of a come forward fighter, because B and C class fighters have able to be just as effective against Kermit Cintron. It was the right fight to be made and at the right time no excuses.
Too see if Alfredo Angulo is the real deal and he isn't, i can't ever see him going very far or picking up a belt. Even though the Jr Middleweight isn't a hot division it still isn't that weak either.
You got fighters like James Kirkland, Daniel Santos, Cory Spinks, Sergiy Dzinziruk, Yuri Foreman, Vernon Forrest, Sergio, Martinez. Who i think would all beat Alfredo Angulo.
Maybe the last run but Gatti had a decent run before the Mayweather fight beating Dorin, Leija, Ward a few times plus he has wins over guys like Tracy Harris Patterson, Gabe Ruelas, etc. Angulo I don't think will be that successful.
Another problem is Angulo's gotta step it up activity wise, I'm not sure I'd classify what he did the other night as an exciting performance. It was a solid enough fight but nothing great unless compared to that shit HBO vomited out for the main event.
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
oh c`mon theres no possible way you can suggest guys like dorin and leija represent beating quality opposition.
I was brought up on arturo gatti and am a huge fan but the guy was too one dimensional to ever beat a world class opponent