Re: Why not have same fight night weigh ins again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fan johnny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kel
Why would you want to see zombies trying to hit each other? It's dangerous stuff mate and it's a good thing they don't do it anymore IMO
Because of the 24 hour weigh-in, it gives fighters the opportunity to fight in a weight class he doesn't qualify for. Same day weigh-ins, remove the temptation to use unnatural methods for making weight in a lower weight division.
If the arguments of the proponents for the 24 hour weight-ins were actually true, we would have the same system for amateur boxing and Olympic events. In any event the 24 hour weight-ins defeat the purpose of defining a weight class in the interest of fairness and competitive matches.
Yeah I see what you mean about the weight advantage but a recent example of a fighter NOT gaining a weight advantage is ODLH. He made the weight of 147 with a couple of pounds to spare and on fight night was still under the 147 limit and we saw what good it did him, he was just awful.
Excellent example, supposedly natural, it doesn't negate the merits of same day weigh-ins and I can also say he clearly didn't belong at the weight due to his weight history and age.
Re: Why not have same fight night weigh ins again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fan johnny
Because of the 24 hour weigh-in, it gives fighters the opportunity to fight in a weight class he doesn't qualify for. Same day weigh-ins, remove the temptation to use unnatural methods for making weight in a lower weight division. If the arguments of the proponents for the 24 hour weight-ins were actually true, we would have the same system for amateur boxing and Olympic events. In any event the 24 hour weight-ins defeat the purpose of defining a weight class in the interest of fairness and competitive matches.
Yeah I see what you mean about the weight advantage but a recent example of a fighter NOT gaining a weight advantage is ODLH. He made the weight of 147 with a couple of pounds to spare and on fight night was still under the 147 limit and we saw what good it did him, he was just awful.
The thing with Oscar was he had to use an IV Drip to rehydrate himself. IV drips are used to treat people who cannot rehydrate orally. You have to ask yourself why he couldn't rehydrate orally. Maybe making a weight that he hadn't come close to maing for a good few years had a big say in it.
Yea everyone heard that comment of Roach, but what has got me curious about the IV. On 24/7, they were saying his weight was already ~147, I couldn't understand why he would need to rehydrate, if he already made weight naturally (Deer & Kangaroo meat and the like diet). Were they just faking us out as part of the show (an the Pacquiao camp)? That would make sense if they were.
Re: Why not have same fight night weigh ins again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lance Uppercut
The real reason for the weigh in a day before the fight is for publicity. It helps sell tickets/PPVs, so I don't think we will being seeing it go anytime soon.
However, I agree that same day weighins would force fighters to fight at their natural weight.
I am in total agreement with this statement. It has nothing to do with hydration well maybe a little but mainly do to money. Amatuer fighter's are known to go on the scale and sometimes fight 10 mins later if your the first match-up. I do think there should be a hydration limit. I am 230 now if I sweat me ass of and dehydrate down to like 215 like I have done I can not see myself putting on 15lbs in 24 hours. Which bring's me to my next question how do they put this much weight on in such limited time? Kind of odd to think someone ate 15 pounds + of food in a 24 hour time period.
Re: Why not have same fight night weigh ins again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fan johnny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kel
Yeah I see what you mean about the weight advantage but a recent example of a fighter NOT gaining a weight advantage is ODLH. He made the weight of 147 with a couple of pounds to spare and on fight night was still under the 147 limit and we saw what good it did him, he was just awful.
The thing with Oscar was he had to use an IV Drip to rehydrate himself. IV drips are used to treat people who cannot rehydrate orally. You have to ask yourself why he couldn't rehydrate orally. Maybe making a weight that he hadn't come close to maing for a good few years had a big say in it.
Yea everyone heard that comment of Roach, but what has got me curious about the IV. On 24/7, they were saying his weight was already ~147, I couldn't understand why he would need to rehydrate, if he already made weight naturally (Deer & Kangaroo meat and the like diet). Were they just faking us out as part of the show (an the Pacquiao camp)? That would make sense if they were.
Who knows. My guess is he didn't re-fuel with enough carbohydrates. I heard a comment from Oscar explaining his diet was high protein, low carb which is a bit odd for an athlete. Re-fuelling with carbohyrate can count for anywhere between 4-10lbs especially if the athlete is 'carb loading' (come fight night).
Now to me if he was comfortably on the weight weeks before-hand surley he wouldn't have been on a low carbohydrate diet considering he is likely to be training for several hours per day. I saw him step on the scales about 3 weeks out on 24/7 and i think he was around 158lbs, so unless the scales were wrong, he wasn't 'on the weight' - hence the low carbohydrate diet.
My guess is he wasn't on the weight at all (the clip of him weighing in 3 weeks out suggest this) and the low carbohydrate diet was put in place (wrongly) to help him to make weight. This will lead to a loss of muscle tissue and weight. Whether or not this was intentional is beyond me, but whatever happened meant Oscar could only manage to put 2lbs on in over 24 hours....which suggests that the 24 hour window still wasn't long enough to rehydrate somebody who has boiled down to the weight to that extent and for some reason he was unable to orally re-hydrate and orally replenish muscle glycogen levels - which go a long way to explaining how poor he performed.
So my conclusion from that is in the extreme, 24 hours may seem long enough but it really isn't. Same day weight ins would stop fighters from attempting to make a weight that is almost impossible to make, because they'd surely realise they cannot possibly re-hydrate in 6 hours.
Re: Why not have same fight night weigh ins again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Fightfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lance Uppercut
The real reason for the weigh in a day before the fight is for publicity. It helps sell tickets/PPVs, so I don't think we will being seeing it go anytime soon.
However, I agree that same day weighins would force fighters to fight at their natural weight.
I am in total agreement with this statement. It has nothing to do with hydration well maybe a little but mainly do to money. Amatuer fighter's are known to go on the scale and sometimes fight 10 mins later if your the first match-up. I do think there should be a hydration limit. I am 230 now if I sweat me ass of and dehydrate down to like 215 like I have done I can not see myself putting on 15lbs in 24 hours. Which bring's me to my next question how do they put this much weight on in such limited time? Kind of odd to think someone ate 15 pounds + of food in a 24 hour time period.
It's carbohydrate loading mate. 15lbs in 24 hours for such a big guy anyway is a piece of cake.
The fact is you've boiled down from your natural weight to your weigh-in weight, by fight night you will be at your natural fighting weight . If you weighed in at your natural weight you would have to move up a division or two.
A method of carb-loading would be to exercise intensely for 3 minutes every 1 hour. Immediately after each 3 minute session, consume around 50-80g of simple/complex carbs with around 10-20g of protein.
Glycogen receptors are much more sensitive after intense exercise and after a period of 'starvation' so the 10-15lbs that you see fighters put on is normally quite easy to achieve.
Re: Why not have same fight night weigh ins again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Would be much safer.
Before anybody starts with the 'they'd be walking zombies' hear me out.
It takes longer than 24 hours to fully re-hydrate yourself after struggling to make weight. More like 72 hours to be fully re-hydrated. So the 24-30 hour window isn't as safe as it could be anyway.
Having a weigh in on the day of a fight should prevent fighters from trying to boil down to a ridiculous weight in the first place. Oscar certainly wouldn't have boiled down to 145 if he thought he was fighting 6 hours later. The 30 hour window wasn't even long enough for him, plus he made himself ill boiling down to such a ridiculous weight. IMO same day weigh ins would or at least should prevent the fighters from attempting to fight in a weight class that they have clearly outgrown.
Of course it would mean the light-welterweight division would look completely different. It would be made up of different fighters who actually fight at 140, but imo that's how it should be. It would also prevent fighters from having a 10-14lbs weight advantage over their opponent. See Clottey - Judah for example or Clottey - Chico.
The only worry would be cancelling shows on short notice due to fighters not making weight but i'm sure this could be over-come by at least having a competitve undercard or a main feature should the house fighter or his opponent pull out. It would be less likely to happen anyway with the same day weigh in, as fighters would all be in the same boat of fighing in a weight class in which they are comfortable. If a fighter was struggling to make 140 they could quite easily move up to welterweight without having to worry about facing an actual middleweight come fight night.
It'll never happen but it should do imo.
Excellent points.
There would be less reason to worry about cancellations if promoters/ managers/ & boxing boards used the heads and had weights verified/ checked once prior to signing & once prior to the fight night weight-in.
More Weight-In's means more 'Publicity' :)
Re: Why not have same fight night weigh ins again?
I think you would have quite a few guys giving up a strap on the scale as opposed to losing the network date and headline event payday.We know the alphabet boyz cannot have that....and the networks would be weary of a guy jeopardizing its main attraction once they are burned.The major players do not even air a worthy undercard let alone allowing subs and last minute walk ons to head a big role paying attraction.
I think its somewhat of a wink and a nod agreement with the major parties involved.The networks,the commissions and sanctioning bodies.They know very well fighters are used to rehydrating and the 'un-official' fight night weight they announce is almost a CYA procedure.Some fighters are far too accustomed to the existing rules and a few might just as easily jump up a weight class or two as opposed to coming in for a numbers sake.One camp may pay another a penalty from purse but more often than not they will fight.
Re: Why not have same fight night weigh ins again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fan johnny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
The thing with Oscar was he had to use an IV Drip to rehydrate himself. IV drips are used to treat people who cannot rehydrate orally. You have to ask yourself why he couldn't rehydrate orally. Maybe making a weight that he hadn't come close to maing for a good few years had a big say in it.
Yea everyone heard that comment of Roach, but what has got me curious about the IV. On 24/7, they were saying his weight was already ~147, I couldn't understand why he would need to rehydrate, if he already made weight naturally (Deer & Kangaroo meat and the like diet). Were they just faking us out as part of the show (an the Pacquiao camp)? That would make sense if they were.
Who knows. My guess is he didn't re-fuel with enough carbohydrates. I heard a comment from Oscar explaining his diet was high protein, low carb which is a bit odd for an athlete. Re-fuelling with carbohyrate can count for anywhere between 4-10lbs especially if the athlete is 'carb loading' (come fight night).
Now to me if he was comfortably on the weight weeks before-hand surley he wouldn't have been on a low carbohydrate diet considering he is likely to be training for several hours per day. I saw him step on the scales about 3 weeks out on 24/7 and i think he was around 158lbs, so unless the scales were wrong, he wasn't 'on the weight' - hence the low carbohydrate diet.
My guess is he wasn't on the weight at all (the clip of him weighing in 3 weeks out suggest this) and the low carbohydrate diet was put in place (wrongly) to help him to make weight. This will lead to a loss of muscle tissue and weight. Whether or not this was intentional is beyond me, but whatever happened meant Oscar could only manage to put 2lbs on in over 24 hours....which suggests that the 24 hour window still wasn't long enough to rehydrate somebody who has boiled down to the weight to that extent and for some reason he was unable to orally re-hydrate and orally replenish muscle glycogen levels - which go a long way to explaining how poor he performed.
So my conclusion from that is in the extreme, 24 hours may seem long enough but it really isn't. Same day weight ins would stop fighters from attempting to make a weight that is almost impossible to make, because they'd surely realise they cannot possibly re-hydrate in 6 hours.
HAHAHA he was on a low carb diet to make the weight and had nothing in the tanks due to that. Thats funny, low carb, lol he's boxer not a model.
Re: Why not have same fight night weigh ins again?
I say same day weigh in and less divisions. So fighters wont have to drop belts left and right due to weight.
