Re: Should Pacquaio get credit for beating Cotto at 145
He should get a lot of credit, but not as much as he would if the fight took place at 147. Beating Cotto at 145 is a monumental accomplishment for a fighter who started where Pac did, but it will be a defeat over a fighter who is not at his best. If it does take place at 145, people will be arguing the merits of the victory for the next 20 years.
One of my main issues (Killer brought this up, I think) is the fact that there is going to be a title on the line; titles should not be able to change hands at catchweights. If it's for the title, it's got to be at 147, otherwise the catchweight is fine (though, like I said above, people will use it as a means by which to debate the merit of the win).
I'd like to see them fight at 147, Pac would still win handily IMO.
Re: Should Pacquaio get credit for beating Cotto at 145
Bilbo, you're missing the point I think. If this fight was made at 147, I guarantee more people would think Pacquiao would win. The fact is, he is THAT good, he could compete at 147 and win. To become great, you have to be willing to take great risk. The fact that I read that the WBO are already planning to sanction this fight as a Welterweight title fight is what makes this more annoying, because its not a Welterweight fight, its a fucking catchweight fight.
I am one of the few people on here who honestly believes that at 147, Manny would totally outbox Shane Mosley for 12 rounds. He is a superb fighter. So as the #1 fighter in the world, looking to put a further stamp on his legacy, why not fight at 147. He has absolutely nothing to lose!
Re: Should Pacquaio get credit for beating Cotto at 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Bilbo, you're missing the point I think. If this fight was made at 147, I guarantee more people would think Pacquiao would win. The fact is, he is THAT good, he could compete at 147 and win. To become great, you have to be willing to take great risk. The fact that I read that the WBO are already planning to sanction this fight as a Welterweight title fight is what makes this more annoying, because its not a Welterweight fight, its a fucking catchweight fight.
I am one of the few people on here who honestly believes that at 147, Manny would totally outbox Shane Mosley for 12 rounds. He is a superb fighter. So as the #1 fighter in the world, looking to put a further stamp on his legacy, why not fight at 147. He has absolutely nothing to lose!
I have to say this is a great argument. Pacman does have nothing to lose. Even if he loses at 147 it would be because he jumped out of his comfort zone, but if he were to win it would be really huge. But I still think Shane is just too big and skilled for Pacman at 147. He has a good chance against Cotto at 147, but not Shane imo.
Re: Should Pacquaio get credit for beating Cotto at 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
He should get a lot of credit, but not as much as he would if the fight took place at 147. Beating Cotto at 145 is a monumental accomplishment for a fighter who started where Pac did, but it will be a defeat over a fighter who is not at his best. If it does take place at 145, people will be arguing the merits of the victory for the next 20 years.
One of my main issues (Killer brought this up, I think) is the fact that there is going to be a title on the line; titles should not be able to change hands at catchweights. If it's for the title, it's got to be at 147, otherwise the catchweight is fine (though, like I said above, people will use it as a means by which to debate the merit of the win).
I'd like to see them fight at 147, Pac would still win handily IMO.
I agree about the titles not being on the line, but really who cares. Most people wouldn't even be able to name the belt they are fighting for without going to boxrec to check. (It's the WBO)
And it's kind of funny logic to be put out or offended by the possibility of Manny Pacquaio winning a WBO strap by beating Miguel Cotto in a megafight when the WBC routinely has two world champs per division and when Juan Urango and Herman Ngoudjo can fight for a world title because Paullie Malignaggi and Ricky Hatton didn't want to pay their ridiculous fee demands.
What I'm saying is that the world boxing organisations are corrupt as fuck and if a former flyweight after moving up 8 divisions in his career fights and beats that division's great champion I don't mind if they give him the belt even though the fighters weighed three lbs below the maximum weight limit.
Re: Should Pacquaio get credit for beating Cotto at 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Bilbo, you're missing the point I think. If this fight was made at 147, I guarantee more people would think Pacquiao would win. The fact is, he is THAT good, he could compete at 147 and win. To become great, you have to be willing to take great risk. The fact that I read that the WBO are already planning to sanction this fight as a Welterweight title fight is what makes this more annoying, because its not a Welterweight fight, its a fucking catchweight fight.
I am one of the few people on here who honestly believes that at 147, Manny would totally outbox Shane Mosley for 12 rounds. He is a superb fighter. So as the #1 fighter in the world, looking to put a further stamp on his legacy, why not fight at 147. He has absolutely nothing to lose!
I have to say this is a great argument. Pacman does have nothing to lose. Even if he loses at 147 it would be because he jumped out of his comfort zone, but if he were to win it would be really huge. But I still think Shane is just too big and skilled for Pacman at 147. He has a good chance against Cotto at 147, but not Shane imo.
People have built Shane up again I think. But Margarito is a target that doesn't move his head. Manny gets in and out so fast and Shane isn't getting any younger. Inactivity will be his downfall sooner or later.
Re: Should Pacquaio get credit for beating Cotto at 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Bilbo, you're missing the point I think. If this fight was made at 147, I guarantee more people would think Pacquiao would win. The fact is, he is THAT good, he could compete at 147 and win. To become great, you have to be willing to take great risk. The fact that I read that the WBO are already planning to sanction this fight as a Welterweight title fight is what makes this more annoying, because its not a Welterweight fight, its a fucking catchweight fight.
I am one of the few people on here who honestly believes that at 147, Manny would totally outbox Shane Mosley for 12 rounds. He is a superb fighter. So as the #1 fighter in the world, looking to put a further stamp on his legacy, why not fight at 147. He has absolutely nothing to lose!
I agree winning at 147 lbs would be insane and he could possibly do it, but it's a huge risk and if he decides a catchweight is a better bet I don't blame him.
All fighters seek to negotiate the best fight arrangements for themselves. Floyd forced Diego Corales back to superfeatherweight to agree to fight him, Julio Ceaser Chavez negotiated a catchweight against Pernell Whittaker as did Meldric Taylor against Terry Norris.
Oscar made Hopkins come down to 158, the Pavlik fight was made at a catchweight of 170, the Calzaghe fight at 173.
Some of the greatest fights in history were catchweight.
All the Gatti Ward fights catchweights, Ray Leonard fought Tommy Hearns at catchweight, Duran fought at catchweight.
It's entirely normal and reasonable and has been used throughout boxing history to bring great champions from different weight classes together and allow the fight to be made.
Armchair fans will moan right now (as they do about everything) but once the fight is in the books nobody will look back and care that it was fought at 145 lbs.
Re: Should Pacquaio get credit for beating Cotto at 145
Yes.Kellerman hit that nail on the head last month."Belts these days are pretty useless and are steeping stones to big name fights".....something along those lines.
As long as a fighter is fighting at his proven best weight and not depleted or out of range for the sake of a name affair,thats all we should ask for.Way to much bartering these days...less talk...more fight.I think Manny can carry 145 and can beat Cotto.
Re: Should Pacquaio get credit for beating Cotto at 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Yes.Kellerman hit that nail on the head last month."Belts these days are pretty useless and are steeping stones to big name fights".....something along those lines.
As long as a fighter is fighting at his proven best weight and not depleted or out of range for the sake of a name affair,thats all we should ask for.Way to much bartering these days...less talk...more fight.I think Manny can carry 145 and can beat Cotto.
Good man
Re: Should Pacquaio get credit for beating Cotto at 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo's Mom
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Bilbo, you're missing the point I think. If this fight was made at 147, I guarantee more people would think Pacquiao would win. The fact is, he is THAT good, he could compete at 147 and win. To become great, you have to be willing to take great risk. The fact that I read that the WBO are already planning to sanction this fight as a Welterweight title fight is what makes this more annoying, because its not a Welterweight fight, its a fucking catchweight fight.
I am one of the few people on here who honestly believes that at 147, Manny would totally outbox Shane Mosley for 12 rounds. He is a superb fighter. So as the #1 fighter in the world, looking to put a further stamp on his legacy, why not fight at 147. He has absolutely nothing to lose!
I agree winning at 147 lbs would be insane and he could possibly do it, but it's a huge risk and if he decides a catchweight is a better bet I don't blame him.
All fighters seek to negotiate the best fight arrangements for themselves. Floyd forced Diego Corales back to superfeatherweight to agree to fight him, Julio Ceaser Chavez negotiated a catchweight against Pernell Whittaker as did Meldric Taylor against Terry Norris.
Oscar made Hopkins come down to 158, the Pavlik fight was made at a catchweight of 170, the Calzaghe fight at 173.
Some of the greatest fights in history were catchweight.
All the Gatti Ward fights catchweights, Ray Leonard fought Tommy Hearns at catchweight, Duran fought at catchweight.
It's entirely normal and reasonable and has been used throughout boxing history to bring great champions from different weight classes together and allow the fight to be made.
Armchair fans will moan right now (as they do about everything) but once the fight is in the books nobody will look back and care that it was fought at 145 lbs.
Where is the risk? He has nothing to lose. Nobody is going to think any less of him if he lost. He's not the champion. He's not the Welterweight. He's #1 fighter in the world.
Re: Should Pacquaio get credit for beating Cotto at 145
PAC and any other fighter should get credit for beating whoever at whatever. Much as I hate catchweights if a mutha you know what agree's to the terms then it shouldn't matter if they fight in jello (my wife's idea) you get your ass beat you get it beat no excuses and your pocketbook and ranking should suffer accordingly......PAC fans may get out of hand but let's not let hating them affect PAC's accomplishments in any way then those cacks win twice.
Re: Should Pacquaio get credit for beating Cotto at 145
IMO, Pac should get credit if he beats Cotto at 145. Two pounds is two pounds... and Cotto should be comfortable at that weight. That being said, I'm more worried about Cotto's cut than about anything else. Doctors have said November is too soon for the cut to heal properly, but knowing Cotto, he'll say the hell with it and go on with the fight in November as planned. I just hope he doesn't get any permanent damage to his eye.
Re: Should Pacquaio get credit for beating Cotto at 145
Should cotto get credit for beating pac at 145.
Re: Should Pacquaio get credit for beating Cotto at 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by
awdleyfuturehalloffamer
Should cotto get credit for beating pac at 145.
I said "yes" to the original question..... I'll say "yes" to this one as well.
Re: Should Pacquaio get credit for beating Cotto at 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
awdleyfuturehalloffamer
Should cotto get credit for beating pac at 145.
I said "yes" to the original question..... I'll say "yes" to this one as well.
Ah, but would you have given Cotto credit for beating PAC at 147?
Re: Should Pacquaio get credit for beating Cotto at 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo's Mom
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Yes.Kellerman hit that nail on the head last month."Belts these days are pretty useless and are steeping stones to big name fights".....something along those lines.
As long as a fighter is fighting at his proven best weight and not depleted or out of range for the sake of a name affair,thats all we should ask for.Way to much bartering these days...less talk...more fight.I think Manny can carry 145 and can beat Cotto.
Good man
Mom is banned also ??? Wow.Just want to clear this up...I think Pac can come in at 145 and beat Cotto at 147.Belts not required.Do not think Cotto should reduce past that point.
