NAAZIM RiCHARDSON "How in the hell was he making 130&135? Pacquiao is a big dude"

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

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Originally Posted by Dr. Steelhammer

Pac is still the smaller dude compare to these natural welters. He is a small fighter with BIG FIRE POWERS though. He's like a firarri engine in a honda civic body. Manny's big fists and huge calves are made for fightin'.

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People in glass houses........

http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:...328-1-0jpg.jpg

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It's not a house missy, just a chin :)

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Originally Posted by ASIAN SENSATION

Pac walks around 155-165. He's a small dude.

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So either his fans need to acknowledge that he isn't big enough to be a welterweight ore recognise that he doesn't get full credit for beating welters if he has to try to take their edge off by making them struggle to sweat a few more pounds and draining them.

Either way he's not big enough and is just there for a pay day imho.
People complain about Floyd picking fighters who are perfect for him styllistically but I think that what Pac is trying to do is just as bad.

They're both just in it for the money now, It's 100% Buisiness.

Why would anybody not want to see Pacquaio-Cotto at 145? Unless you just think he can't make it but it seems to me that 145 is not some suicide mission for Cotto, he's not that big for the weight, he came in at 146 last time. If he obviously looks strung out then you don't have to give Manny any credit for the win. Its not on the same level of when there were talks about Shane at 142, this seems within reach. Maybe I'm completely wrong and that one extra pound is the tipping point but I kind of doubt it.

Otherwise I don't see the point in being against a mega fight because of some abstract notion that he should be at 147 regardless of whether it affects Cotto or not.

A couple things that are being lost is that Manny will be smaller than the guys he's fighting even if they set the weight at 145. I'd be very surprised if he came in at more than 142. But more importantly he holds the cards, he has turned into one of the two big money fighters in the sport and unless your name is Floyd Mayweather Manny holds the leverage and can, for the most part, set the terms, weight wise or otherwise because Cotto, Shane, etc. need him more than he needs them. Not that I love it, I've said from the beginning that I'd rather he just fight them at 147 but it doesn't look like it's going to happen. As long as its not some absurd catchweight, and I don't think Cotto at 145 is, then I don't see a huge problem.

You have to think though, if two pounds were unimportant then why would they even ask for them?

It's not the physical weight that Cottos will be in the ring... losing 2 extra pounds isn't going to affect his weight the next day much, if at all... it will have been an extra drain on his system though and that is the important thing.

2 pounds of mass is nothing, it's what you go through to get there that may have an effect on Cotto.

That is what roach is hoping for and as you say holding the cards he can put it out there. I'm not saying that Cotto definetly can't pull it off and weigh in lighter... what I am saying is that that is the Pac team's intent.

145 may end up not being a massive leap for Cotto, but you do have to ask... if we are just talking purely in terms of physical weight then 2 pounds is relativly nothing... Pac's shit probably weighs more than that.

So why bother asking for 145? If they wanted/expected both fighters to make the weight easily and be fully hydrated/energised the next day then 2 pounds wouldn't mean shit. It's not an absurd weight, you're right... it would just be nice for Pac fans to acknowledge his intent rather than just going apeshit when/if he wins.

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

So why bother asking for 145? If they wanted/expected both fighters to make the weight easily and be fully hydrated/energised the next day then 2 pounds wouldn't mean shit. It's not an absurd weight, you're right... it would just be nice for Pac fans to acknowledge his intent rather than just going apeshit when/if he wins.

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Sure, Pac's teams intent is to make the fight FAIR. Cotto will not be in his optimum weight, but he will NOT be weight-drained by losing 1 pound (he came in at 146 lbs in his last fight).

But Pac too will not be in his optimum weight. He will weigh in at 142 lbs, much lighter than his opponent. Cotto will probably have a 10-lb advantage over him on fight night. Pacquiao will be SLOWER than usual, coz he will be blown-up. In short, Pac will also NOT be in his optimum weight.

By meeting halfway, both are giving up something but it will make for an exciting and even fight.

You might not like this catchweight fight but I predict that this fight will have MORE fans watching than the PBF-JMM fight. If so, then the fans think it is a fight worth the matchup.

Enough with Hatton was weight drain for the fight. The Hatton fans comes up with every excuse for his losses. I'm no fan of Pacman, but anyone with some knowledge on the sport knows Hatton doesn't belong in a boxing ring with guys like Floyd and Pacman. The gap in the talent level is so great between Hatton and those 2. He beats up an 36 year old Kostya that was hardly active and his fans think he's an all time great.

And here is the evidence that Hatton was bigger than his foe before and after the weigh in. Enough with that he was smaller than pacman. The evidence says something else.

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1...0708040119.jpg

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Originally Posted by keypool

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

So why bother asking for 145? If they wanted/expected both fighters to make the weight easily and be fully hydrated/energised the next day then 2 pounds wouldn't mean shit. It's not an absurd weight, you're right... it would just be nice for Pac fans to acknowledge his intent rather than just going apeshit when/if he wins.

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Sure, Pac's teams intent is to make the fight FAIR. Cotto will not be in his optimum weight, but he will NOT be weight-drained by losing 1 pound (he came in at 146 lbs in his last fight).

But Pac too will not be in his optimum weight. He will weigh in at 142 lbs, much lighter than his opponent. Cotto will probably have a 10-lb advantage over him on fight night. Pacquiao will be SLOWER than usual, coz he will be blown-up. In short, Pac will also NOT be in his optimum weight.

By meeting halfway, both are giving up something but it will make for an exciting and even fight.

You might not like this catchweight fight but I predict that this fight will have MORE fans watching than the PBF-JMM fight. If so, then the fans think it is a fight worth the matchup.

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I've had this discussion before.

if I was to challenge Usan Bolt to a 10m sprint it would make things fair and even if I was to have him tape 10lbs to each leg.

Would I deserve full credit if I won? 'Fair'...

Is this school sports day or competitive, professional sport? :rolleyes: If he wants full credit for it then do it properly.

And look... as many fans as they want can watch the fight... that's what Pac wants, make a shit load of money, get credit for beating a welterweight and not get out muscled.

More power to him and the people who buy into it I guess. At this point in his career it's nothing more than shrewd buisiness on Manny's part... no better than Floyd Mayweather. He's just not a dick like Floyd soless people will say it.

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

You have to think though, if two pounds were unimportant then why would they even ask for them?

It's not the physical weight that Cottos will be in the ring... losing 2 extra pounds isn't going to affect his weight the next day much, if at all... it will have been an extra drain on his system though and that is the important thing.

2 pounds of mass is nothing, it's what you go through to get there that may have an effect on Cotto.

That is what roach is hoping for and as you say holding the cards he can put it out there. I'm not saying that Cotto definetly can't pull it off and weigh in lighter... what I am saying is that that is the Pac team's intent.

145 may end up not being a massive leap for Cotto, but you do have to ask... if we are just talking purely in terms of physical weight then 2 pounds is relativly nothing... Pac's shit probably weighs more than that.

So why bother asking for 145? If they wanted/expected both fighters to make the weight easily and be fully hydrated/energised the next day then 2 pounds wouldn't mean shit. It's not an absurd weight, you're right... it would just be nice for Pac fans to acknowledge his intent rather than just going apeshit when/if he wins.

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so you think its unfair for any welterweight if they fight pac at a catchweight? wow you really believe in pacs ability huh?

i think what pac did to dela hoya tramatize people :lolhaha:

Like a typical pac fan you're completely missing the point... if Floyd Mayweather was asking the likes of Oscar for catchweights than you'd all lose your minds... such is the mayweather double standard.

Like I've already said... this is competitive sport so you can throw 'fair' out of the window. If the other guy isn't allowed to be bigger or stronger than I'm not really sure how it can be considered competitive... ???

That's sort of like saying all Formula one drivers have to stay at 60mph the whole time so that I stand a chance in my ford focus isn't it? Should I be fully (here's the thing, I'm not saying he deserves NO credit here...)
Is it really hard to admit that at this point in his career pac man wants the biggest fights possible to make as much money as possible. If he just wanted to get into the mix with all the guys at 147 then he wouldn't be talking about catchweights... like I say he holds all the cards so other fighters will be willing to do it... and hey if people buy into it then more power to pac.

if he was solely bothered about getting the credit for beating the top guys from 147 he would be fighting them at 147... I'm not even knocking him for it, it's good buisiness (which is exactly what this is).

Whilst he may not be doing it as badly as Floyd does I just don't see why the same people who critise Floyd for picking the right fighter, at the right time and at the right weight will so easily buy into what Pac is doing.

Floyd is all about earning money now... and whilst Pac isn't as bad as Floyd is, the way he is being managed now is all about the marquee names and earning... fair play to him but nobody is even going to say shit about it. Like I said I don't think he deserves NO credit... or that it's completely 'unfair'... but Pac is being shrewd about what he is doing cos he wants to fight big names with out getting knocked out... that's why he's been throwing catchweights left right and centre... and I don't see why nobody can even acknowledge it.

And please tell me you could see how fucked ODLH was...

Well DHL got what he deserved, He called Manny out and was more than willing to meet half way.

You know, I'm a huge fan of Manny, but it's very hard to defend him with him saying today yet again he wants Cotto at 143lbs.

Cotto never called him out. Cotto never chased him. Cotto deserves the right to come into the fight strong and be at is best. He should not have to make extreme sacrifices. 145lb would be fair.

-A swordsman cannot prove he is the best swordsman by poisoning his opponent

-A Dueler cannot be the best gunfighter by stealing his opponents gun.

I am worried that Manny's team is becoming diva-fied like Floyd himself. If you want to beat Cotto and want it to count, fight him at his best. Is that too much to ask?

A warrior fights hard and takes risks. They do not try to weaken their opponent to increase their own chances. To me that is wrong. As Cotto said 145 or no deal. There is more than pride at stake, it is a career and 145 is fair to both men.

Good posting mate, pretty much spot on... :)

Not saying ODLH didn't deserve it, just saying how it was.
Like you I actually like Pac... I'm just calling it how I see it.

he's now asking for less than 145? Pretty much says it all.

if he can cope with Oscar De la hoya (who is bigger than both pac AND cotto) weighing in at 145 then why can't he cope with Cotto weighing in at 145? Is it because cotto, being smaller than Oscar would find it easier and retain too much strength at 145?

Mosely was so confident that he could hit 144 or what ever they wanted and not be drained... that's why the fight never came off if you ask me.

Pac prefers 143, just like Cotto prefers 147. But the fight will happen at 145. Neither of these guys we'll see at their best weight class. But its still be a huge ppv event.

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

I've had this discussion before.

if I was to challenge Usan Bolt to a 10m sprint it would make things fair and even if I was to have him tape 10lbs to each leg.

Would I deserve full credit if I won? 'Fair'...

Is this school sports day or competitive, professional sport? :rolleyes: If he wants full credit for it then do it properly.

And look... as many fans as they want can watch the fight... that's what Pac wants, make a shit load of money, get credit for beating a welterweight and not get out muscled.

More power to him and the people who buy into it I guess. At this point in his career it's nothing more than shrewd buisiness on Manny's part... no better than Floyd Mayweather. He's just not a dick like Floyd soless people will say it.

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I understand what you are saying. Its another valid viewpoint i guess. But history has shown us many champions that fought at catchweight fights. I don't know what makes Pac any different.

Now, Pac asking 143 lbs IS too much. But I think it is just a negotiation ploy. I hope they settle at 144-145 lbs.

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

Like a typical pac fan you're completely missing the point... if Floyd Mayweather was asking the likes of Oscar for catchweights than you'd all lose your minds... such is the mayweather double standard.

Like I've already said... this is competitive sport so you can throw 'fair' out of the window. If the other guy isn't allowed to be bigger or stronger than I'm not really sure how it can be considered competitive... ???

That's sort of like saying all Formula one drivers have to stay at 60mph the whole time so that I stand a chance in my ford focus isn't it? Should I be fully (here's the thing, I'm not saying he deserves NO credit here...)
Is it really hard to admit that at this point in his career pac man wants the biggest fights possible to make as much money as possible. If he just wanted to get into the mix with all the guys at 147 then he wouldn't be talking about catchweights... like I say he holds all the cards so other fighters will be willing to do it... and hey if people buy into it then more power to pac.

if he was solely bothered about getting the credit for beating the top guys from 147 he would be fighting them at 147... I'm not even knocking him for it, it's good buisiness (which is exactly what this is).

Whilst he may not be doing it as badly as Floyd does I just don't see why the same people who critise Floyd for picking the right fighter, at the right time and at the right weight will so easily buy into what Pac is doing.

Floyd is all about earning money now... and whilst Pac isn't as bad as Floyd is, the way he is being managed now is all about the marquee names and earning... fair play to him but nobody is even going to say shit about it. Like I said I don't think he deserves NO credit... or that it's completely 'unfair'... but Pac is being shrewd about what he is doing cos he wants to fight big names with out getting knocked out... that's why he's been throwing catchweights left right and centre... and I don't see why nobody can even acknowledge it.

And please tell me you could see how fucked ODLH was...

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god what the hell is the matter with you people, your comparing pac to what floyd has done? first of how many fights has floyd had at junior welter and welterweight? then ask yourself how many has pac had?

pac and oscar were 3 division apart, both fighters wanted the fight so both took the risk of leaving their division. its easy to say oh pac and his camp plotted to weight drain oscar in that fight, but you people were the same fools who said before that fight pac would get killed.

so you people dont want pac to fight the best fighters near his division if pac does not fight them in those fighters division? Seriously the oscar fight tramatise you people. Now even you guys believe what pac is capapble of in all these division.

To compare pac to floyd takes so much away from pac, floyd is a welterweight fighting a guy below his division. pac is fighting a fighter floyd wants no part of above pacs division. pac actually fought hatton in hattons division not in a division hatton had huge problems in.

Negotiation is part of boxing, your talking about throwing the word fair out the window well before they even get in the ring agreements are being made. If both fighters agree to a catchweight, so be it. Still risky for BOTH fighters not just one, just a year ago you'll the same people that said pac has no business in with the likes of these welterweights in any weight. Now its unfair if pac fights them in a catchweight? which current fights made you'll change your mind? the oscar one? you guys dont actually believe cotto is as old and as uncapable as oscar is at this time do you?

Sure oscar looked like shit in that fight, but hey he took that risk for the money. Now cotto is taking the same risk, but i doubt he'll look as bad as oscar cause pac can't possibly be that good can he? hell pac is risking losing his best feats; speed power etc everytime his above his division.