Who Ranks Higher All Time, Ricky Hatton or Fernando Vargas

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

I don't think I'm knocking him for that, I'm just saying that would have put him clearly over the top. And I just can't see a draw or a win, and I saw it 3 or 4 times. Not in a while but I have no intention of watching it again.

You could turn that P4P argument around too though, Vargas isn't doing well against Floyd or Pacquaio either.

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Well i think Fernando Vargas had the size and skill, to give both men a decent argument P4P. No one has beaten a prime Winky Wright easily, even Bernard Hopkins struggled badly against a flabby Winky Wright.

The fact is Fernando Vargas fought a very good version of Winky Wright, and IMO earned a draw. Based on his frantic last 3 rounds effort, even if you thought he lost it couldn't of been by more than 2 rounds. It was very close and again i don't really feel thats a good reason.

That you wouldn't have him above Ricky Hatton, i personally don't but im not really getting why the Winky Wright fight would change your mind, considering how great Winky Wright is and considering how close it was.

haha, how great Winky was is the exact reason it would push him over, that would be a huge win ;D He fought well though and even that is a plus for him but obviously a clear win would be better. That and a Ike win would put him over Hatton, which after some reconsideration I think he might be anyway.

No offense, but I don't know how size can play a part in a P4P argument. Wlad's size and skill would really give him a good shot versus Fernando Montiel in a P4P fight ;D I'm probably just misunderstanding you there. And I think P4P Floyd and Manny are too good for him, clearly. Of course I think Floyd and Manny are higher P4P than anybody Vargas fought, again clearly, except maybe in the case of Winky but I think they're also just worse matchups for Fernando than Winky.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

If I felt that Vargas had deserved the win over Winky it would be Vargas definitely for me. But I feel Winky won a close but clear decision where I really can't see a win or even a draw for Vargas, that fight is less borderline to me than say Cotto-Clottey or Pacquaio-JMM 2, I could see Clottey and JMM winning, I really can't see Vargas winning.

So as it stands it seems like a bit of a push to me, maybe Hatton slightly ahead.

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I felt Fernando Vargas was behind by a couple of points, going into the 10th round. But then he really stepped up the pace, throwing 90+ punches and just outworking Winky Wright down the stretch to earn a draw.

Fernando Vargas was also very effective to the body, and im not using the punchstats as my argument, but the punchstats were pretty even aswell it was a very close fight.

I don't think thats a good reason to put Fernando Vargas down, because consider it this way. P4P how would Ricky Hatton have done against Winky Wright, Ike Quartey, ODLH, ETC ?

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Why would you even consider Hatton fighting junior middleweights ?

Fernando Vargas Best Wins.

Yori Boy Campas
Raul Marquez
Ike Quartey
Winky Wright
Wilfredo Rivera
Javier Castillejo

6 World title wins, youngest Jr Middleweight champion in history.

Ricky Hatton's Best Wins.

Paul Malignaggi
Jose Luis Castillo
Kostya Tszyu
Juan Urango
Luis Collazo
Vince Phillips

4 World title wins although i can't remember, how many times he defended his ring magazine belt.

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Originally Posted by leftylee

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

If I felt that Vargas had deserved the win over Winky it would be Vargas definitely for me. But I feel Winky won a close but clear decision where I really can't see a win or even a draw for Vargas, that fight is less borderline to me than say Cotto-Clottey or Pacquaio-JMM 2, I could see Clottey and JMM winning, I really can't see Vargas winning.

So as it stands it seems like a bit of a push to me, maybe Hatton slightly ahead.

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I felt Fernando Vargas was behind by a couple of points, going into the 10th round. But then he really stepped up the pace, throwing 90+ punches and just outworking Winky Wright down the stretch to earn a draw.

Fernando Vargas was also very effective to the body, and im not using the punchstats as my argument, but the punchstats were pretty even aswell it was a very close fight.

I don't think thats a good reason to put Fernando Vargas down, because consider it this way. P4P how would Ricky Hatton have done against Winky Wright, Ike Quartey, ODLH, ETC ?

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Why would you even consider Hatton fighting junior middleweights ?

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I said P4P.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

haha, how great Winky was is the exact reason it would push him over, that would be a huge win ;D He fought well though and even that is a plus for him but obviously a clear win would be better. That and a Ike win would put him over Hatton, which after some reconsideration I think he might be anyway.

No offense, but I don't know how size can play a part in a P4P argument. Wlad's size and skill would really give him a good shot versus Fernando Montiel in a P4P fight ;D I'm probably just misunderstanding you there. And I think P4P Floyd and Manny are too good for him, clearly. Of course I think Floyd and Manny are higher P4P than anybody Vargas fought, again clearly, except maybe in the case of Winky but I think they're also just worse matchups for Fernando than Winky.

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My bad on the size part my mind was wondering there, but i agree on the rest. But i feel Fernando Vargas could still give both of them good arguments.

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Originally Posted by ICB

Fernando Vargas Best Wins.

Yori Boy Campas
Raul Marquez
Ike Quartey
Winky Wright
Wilfredo Rivera
Javier Castillejo

6 World title wins, youngest Jr Middleweight champion in history.

Ricky Hatton's Best Wins.

Paul Malignaggi
Jose Luis Castillo
Kostya Tszyu
Juan Urango
Luis Collazo
Vince Phillips

4 World title wins although i can't remember, how many times he defended his ring magazine belt.

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5 times he defended it the Ring Belt, on paper Vargas has the better wins, hard to say really looking at it again, without looking into who they fought you would say Hatton on the fact he won world titles at two weights was number 1 for 4 years, but the names and the fighters Vargas's is slightly better.

Well I don't think they'd KO him in one (and honestly I don't give a whole lot of thought to any P4P matches as they're a bit pointless) but Manny's hand speed, foot speed, movement and power would be rough on Vargas, and Floyd's skills, speed and even power would also be tough for Vargas.

exactly how can u even compare hatton against those fighters what the fukk, anyway about vargas i need to give him his due he was a hell of a fighter, a man that wore his heart on his sleeve, comin back fom two knockdowns in the first round against trinidad only to get smashed at the end of the fight, i almost feel sorry for the fella, he was a great, great warrior. i think alot of promoters and trainers can learn fron his downfall, jeff lacy vs calzaghe also comes to mind, all these people slaggin off fighters for stepping up to late, i think ur best off throwing them in the deep end after 30 forty fights other than 10, 20 fights, history shows this more than not

guys its just P4P, I mean P4P arguments are vague and I think a bit pointless but he's not just saying simply that he thinks a 154 pound Vargas or Winky would beat a 140 pound hatton.

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Originally Posted by skel1983

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Originally Posted by ICB

Fernando Vargas Best Wins.

Yori Boy Campas
Raul Marquez
Ike Quartey
Winky Wright
Wilfredo Rivera
Javier Castillejo

6 World title wins, youngest Jr Middleweight champion in history.

Ricky Hatton's Best Wins.

Paul Malignaggi
Jose Luis Castillo
Kostya Tszyu
Juan Urango
Luis Collazo
Vince Phillips

4 World title wins although i can't remember, how many times he defended his ring magazine belt.

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5 times he defended it the Ring Belt, on paper Vargas has the better wins, hard to say really looking at it again, without looking into who they fought you would say Hatton on the fact he won world titles at two weights was number 1 for 4 years, but the names and the fighters Vargas's is slightly better.

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i think tho skel have to put hatton just ahead of vargas due to the domination of his division

IMO its vargas. when he fought the big names he put up a good fight. hatton got blown out by Pac and outboxed and kod by floyd. Vargas gave Tito, Winky, Oscar, and Mosley tough fights.

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Originally Posted by skel1983

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Originally Posted by match

As it stands right now, which of these two ranks higher all time?

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Hatton easily, people are being a tad harsh on Hatton, lets not forget he best the p4p number 3 who had ruled the division for best part of 8 years, and was then himself number 1 fighter in his division for 4 years.

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HAtton wasnt just handed it on a plate as some would have us belive either. Beat Urkal convincingly and he beat Phillips (something Kostya never got his own back for); They were some of the smarter tougher fights to nail down before his big "although timley" win over Kostya.

Vargas was good ,had determination heart and got weight fully behind some decent striaght guns but was better when he was behind the wheel dictating a fight. I thought he couldnt control himself mentally as well when comming under intense pressure himself.

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Originally Posted by kingfrnk

IMO its vargas. when he fought the big names he put up a good fight. hatton got blown out by Pac and outoxed and kod by floyd. Vargas gave Tito, Winky, Oscar, and Mosley tough fights.

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This is what swings it towards Vargas for me. They both have equally good wins under their belt, but when it came to elite opposition, Vargas was very competitive in those fights, with opportunites to win them at some points. Hatton never got that far against Pac and Floyd.

I'm gonna go with Vargas. His title run at IBF JMW ranks better than Hatton's run at JWW in terms of overall quality of opposition, and he fought significantly more top tier opponents.