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As of his win over Miguel Cotto PAC has been ranked at least a top 20 ATG.Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFUQdY6Fx_M
If he beats a naturally bigger and undefeated ATG/gifted fighter like himself in PBF proves Manny should be in AT LEAST in the top 10 LOGICALLY.
Nobody denies PBF's greatness Nobody. It's just Floyd's lack of desire to fight legit great welters outside of Baldomir. His great wins over DelaHoya and Hatton on the other hand was overshadowed by stoppage wins of Manny over them. Beating a lightweight in Marquez is great but stopping a bigger stronger and younger Cotto is greater.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mar
Really? You're telling me that you don't know how good Mayweather is?Quote:
Originally Posted by mnmc10so how can we be sure that he is that good? naz showed alot of skills but it wasnt enough when he got raped by mab.Quote:
Originally Posted by C-LoI hate missing these kind of posts...Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
People's hate for Mayweather make them discredit his career. But anyone who isn't a complete hater knows he is one of the best to ever put on a pair of gloves. I just think he could've taken more challenges at welterweight because his abilities are such a waste if he doesn't test them against the best at the weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mar
He was supposed to lose to Corrales but he destroyed him. He fought a very close fight with Castillo the first time with an injury and dominated him the second time around. He embarrassed Gatti, not beat, embarrassed. He beat De La Hoya when they fought at Oscar's weight.
Mayweather has rarely been hit flush, but he not only beats his opponents, he makes them look really bad.
I don't even know why I'm replying to this. If you honestly think Mayweather isn't one of the most skilled ever, then you need to go back and watch his fights again.
I criticize Floyd for what he's done at welterweight, but before then, he had one hell of a career.
Bullshit...cotto while game, was nothing but a paper champ as shane mosely is the real WW champ and the fight was contested with limitations. Roy didn't make Ruiz come down to 215.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIf Manny beats Floyd he's only top 20 p4p.....really?Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
He's top ten already, if he beats Floyd he will be top 5, maybe top 3 behind Robinson and Ali.
He's won world titles in more weight divisions than any fighter in history. And he hasn't just moved up and boxed his way to decisions against paper belt champs like Roy did against Ruiz, he's moved up, fought the best and absolutely fucking smashed them.
Nobody in the history of boxing has done what Manny has done.
If he beat Floyd that would be an unbelievable acomplishment.
If Pacquiao beats PBF I don't see any way he isn't at least considered to be in the top 10 ATG as a minimum. I'd probably argue for him being top 5 if he manages to beat Floyd. If he beats Floyd and Mosley (or whoever the linear Welterweight champion is) its a certainty. He is undeniably one of the greatest boxers to ever live.
Cotto was a paper champ? And this despite having a win over Mosely, the guy you rate as the champ? :vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherBullshit...cotto while game, was nothing but a paper champ as shane mosely is the real WW champ and the fight was contested with limitations. Roy didn't make Ruiz come down to 215.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIf Manny beats Floyd he's only top 20 p4p.....really?Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
He's top ten already, if he beats Floyd he will be top 5, maybe top 3 behind Robinson and Ali.
He's won world titles in more weight divisions than any fighter in history. And he hasn't just moved up and boxed his way to decisions against paper belt champs like Roy did against Ruiz, he's moved up, fought the best and absolutely fucking smashed them.
Nobody in the history of boxing has done what Manny has done.
If he beat Floyd that would be an unbelievable acomplishment.
Cotto had only lost once in his career, and that to a fighter who most likely had plaster of paris in his gloves.
Manny's win was nothing short of sensational. Remember he started out as a fucking straw weight! Imagine if Nonito Donaire moved up from flyweight to junior bantam, to super bantam, to feather weight, to super feather, to lightweight, to junior welter and then to welter beating a string of Hall of Fame and p4p worthy fighters on the way.
It's amazing what Manny has done, NOBODY else in the history of boxing has moved up ten weight classes and destroyed a reigning champ, NOBODY.
And many people also believed shane would kayo cotto in a rematch before he lost to manny.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboCotto was a paper champ? And this despite having a win over Mosely, the guy you rate as the champ? :vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherBullshit...cotto while game, was nothing but a paper champ as shane mosely is the real WW champ and the fight was contested with limitations. Roy didn't make Ruiz come down to 215.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Cotto had only lost once in his career, and that to a fighter who most likely had plaster of paris in his gloves.
Manny's win was nothing short of sensational. Remember he started out as a fucking straw weight! Imagine if Nonito Donaire moved up from flyweight to junior bantam, to super bantam, to feather weight, to super feather, to lightweight, to junior welter and then to welter beating a string of Hall of Fame and p4p worthy fighters on the way.
It's amazing what Manny has done, NOBODY else in the history of boxing has moved up ten weight classes and destroyed a reigning champ, NOBODY.
Margarito didnt not have plaster in his gloves...cotto fought and lost the unification bout to margo...shane beat mago this makes shane the world recognized WW champ. Cotto picked up a strap that was thrown away by Paul Williams...
True manny moved up ten weight classes because the smaller weight classes are divided by less weight.
154-HW is the same amount of weight gained...
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Originally Posted by C-LoReally? You're telling me that you don't know how good Mayweather is?Quote:
Originally Posted by mnmc10so how can we be sure that he is that good? naz showed alot of skills but it wasnt enough when he got raped by mab.Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Lo
He was supposed to lose to Corrales but he destroyed him. He fought a very close fight with Castillo the first time with an injury and dominated him the second time around. He embarrassed Gatti, not beat, embarrassed. He beat De La Hoya when they fought at Oscar's weight.
Mayweather has rarely been hit flush, but he not only beats his opponents, he makes them look really bad.
I don't even know why I'm replying to this. If you honestly think Mayweather isn't one of the most skilled ever, then you need to go back and watch his fights again.
I criticize Floyd for what he's done at welterweight, but before then, he had one hell of a career.
no man you dont get it, i myself think that pbf will school pac. i know how good he is but alot of people think that pbf picks his opponents, he always have the upper hand. i still think he dances too much in the ring and is overall a boring boxer, but defense wise he is a genius.
again, an average boxer will look really good against a weak boxer. so how can we be certain that pbf is really that good when he hasnt fought the best? atleast in pacs case he beat dlh and hatton way better than pbf he fought cotto which is bigger as compared with pbf fighting a small guy in marquez.
do you get it now???
sorry...we forgot you were in Margarito's dressing room while he got his hands wrapped against Cotto...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherAnd many people also believed shane would kayo cotto in a rematch before he lost to manny.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboCotto was a paper champ? And this despite having a win over Mosely, the guy you rate as the champ? :vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Cotto had only lost once in his career, and that to a fighter who most likely had plaster of paris in his gloves.
Manny's win was nothing short of sensational. Remember he started out as a fucking straw weight! Imagine if Nonito Donaire moved up from flyweight to junior bantam, to super bantam, to feather weight, to super feather, to lightweight, to junior welter and then to welter beating a string of Hall of Fame and p4p worthy fighters on the way.
It's amazing what Manny has done, NOBODY else in the history of boxing has moved up ten weight classes and destroyed a reigning champ, NOBODY.
Margarito didnt not have plaster in his gloves...cotto fought and lost the unification bout to margo...shane beat mago this makes shane the world recognized WW champ. Cotto picked up a strap that was thrown away by Paul Williams...
True manny moved up ten weight classes because the smaller weight classes are divided by less weight.
154-HW is the same amount of weight gained...
only paper title Pacquiao has won is his title at 135, when he beat the bum that is David Diaz, only complaint anyone can have about the Cotto fight is the BS catchweight, although it wouldn't have made much a difference seeing how Cotto would have the same incompetent corner of yes men, and would basically of came in with the same strategy of slugging instead of effectively working behind the jab, Pacquiao isn't the welterweight champion of the world, he's just a title holder, but even that given the type of fights he's been in and the level of opposition he's faced, it's pretty ridiculous to make so many excuses to try and discredit his accomplishments only to heighten Floyd's, that said Mayweather shuts out Pacquiao or stops him late
If PAC gets past Mayweather I can see only one fight for him at 147lb imo. Paul Williams. Yes it would be a freakshow but after him there is absolutely nobody left that legacy wise he would need to face.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralessorry...we forgot you were in Margarito's dressing room while he got his hands wrapped against Cotto...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherAnd many people also believed shane would kayo cotto in a rematch before he lost to manny.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Margarito didnt not have plaster in his gloves...cotto fought and lost the unification bout to margo...shane beat mago this makes shane the world recognized WW champ. Cotto picked up a strap that was thrown away by Paul Williams...
True manny moved up ten weight classes because the smaller weight classes are divided by less weight.
154-HW is the same amount of weight gained...
only paper title Pacquiao has won is his title at 135, when he beat the bum that is David Diaz, only complaint anyone can have about the Cotto fight is the BS catchweight, although it wouldn't have made much a difference seeing how Cotto would have the same incompetent corner of yes men, and would basically of came in with the same strategy of slugging instead of effectively working behind the jab, Pacquiao isn't the welterweight champion of the world, he's just a title holder, but even that given the type of fights he's been in and the level of opposition he's faced, it's pretty ridiculous to make so many excuses to try and discredit his accomplishments only to heighten Floyd's, that said Mayweather shuts out Pacquiao or stops him late
Oh yeah I forgot you were there too so you can definitively say he cheated giving you and everyone else who was on the "cotto could only be beaten if someone cheated bandwagon." When the blueprint was laid by shane. See I dont remember Margo being suspended for the Cotto fight, so please with the boot strapping.
I remember on this forum after he fought shane, it was pointed out that because he ran from shane in last quarter of the fight that there was no way he was finishing against Margarito. Which turned out to be true. Then all of a sudden people needed to believe cotto was cheated. When actually it was clear then. Put Cotto in the ring with men that can withstand his punches and apply pressure on him and he'll lose. MARGO and PAC were able to stop him. Him managed to escape shane but many feel he would have been kayoed anyway in a rematch long before pac got to him. And its a FACT that his belt was a vacated belt by paul williams. Cotto was a paper champ at WW period. Nothing you or anyone else says will change that.
Because if the belt PAC got from DIAZ was a paper belt, then the one he got from cotto is same because they were both vacated by the real champs at the time. Although Casamayor was stripped.
first off nowhere in my post did i say that he was cheated, but no one knows if Margarito had plaster or didn't in the Cotto fight, so to say with "certainty" is pretty stupidQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralessorry...we forgot you were in Margarito's dressing room while he got his hands wrapped against Cotto...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
only paper title Pacquiao has won is his title at 135, when he beat the bum that is David Diaz, only complaint anyone can have about the Cotto fight is the BS catchweight, although it wouldn't have made much a difference seeing how Cotto would have the same incompetent corner of yes men, and would basically of came in with the same strategy of slugging instead of effectively working behind the jab, Pacquiao isn't the welterweight champion of the world, he's just a title holder, but even that given the type of fights he's been in and the level of opposition he's faced, it's pretty ridiculous to make so many excuses to try and discredit his accomplishments only to heighten Floyd's, that said Mayweather shuts out Pacquiao or stops him late
Oh yeah I forgot you were there too so you can definitively say he cheated giving you and everyone else who was on the "cotto could only be beaten if someone cheated bandwagon." When the blueprint was laid by shane. See I dont remember Margo being suspended for the Cotto fight, so please with the boot strapping.
I remember on this forum after he fought shane, it was pointed out that because he ran from shane in last quarter of the fight that there was no way he was finishing against Margarito. Which turned out to be true. Then all of a sudden people needed to believe cotto was cheated. When actually it was clear then. Put Cotto in the ring with men that can withstand his punches and apply pressure on him and he'll lose. MARGO and PAC were able to stop him. Him managed to escape shane but many feel he would have been kayoed anyway in a rematch long before pac got to him. And its a FACT that his belt was a vacated belt by paul williams. Cotto was a paper champ at WW period. Nothing you or anyone else says will change that.
Because if the belt PAC got from DIAZ was a paper belt, then the one he got from cotto is same because they were both vacated by the real champs at the time. Although Casamayor was stripped.
when the fuck did Cotto run from Mosley? he fought a more defensive type fight for the last 2 rounds cause Shane was coming on, but it was a clear cut win for Cotto, and neither Pacquiao nor Margarito fought the same type of fight Shane did, so to say he put the blueprint out there is ridiculous
FACT is was caught trying to cheat, and well no one really knows when he first did it or if it was the only fight he did it in, so pretty much any win of significance on his record now has a big * next to it, not only Cotto, but Cintron, Clottey, hell even Lujan
also when the fuck was Paul Williams the lineal welter weight champ? cause what i remember is Mayweather winning the lineal title from Baldomir and the title was vacated when he retired, only to have Mosley take it once he battered Margarito around, and on to David Diaz, the lineal champ at that time was Casamayor, Diaz only had the title cause the WBC stripped Casamayor of the strap (which he had won against Corrales R.I.P) and handed it Diaz since he was the "interim champion", so there's a HUGE difference between the two cases, at least Cotto actually fought for the title (albeit against crappy opposition in Jennings) instead of just having it handed to him without even fighting, hence the reasoning why Diaz should be classified as a "paper champ" and Cotto not
The WBO belt was never apart of the lineal belts mayweather won which is the belt Cotto had before PAC took it...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesfirst off nowhere in my post did i say that he was cheated, but no one knows if Margarito had plaster or didn't in the Cotto fight, so to say with "certainty" is pretty stupidQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Oh yeah I forgot you were there too so you can definitively say he cheated giving you and everyone else who was on the "cotto could only be beaten if someone cheated bandwagon." When the blueprint was laid by shane. See I dont remember Margo being suspended for the Cotto fight, so please with the boot strapping.
I remember on this forum after he fought shane, it was pointed out that because he ran from shane in last quarter of the fight that there was no way he was finishing against Margarito. Which turned out to be true. Then all of a sudden people needed to believe cotto was cheated. When actually it was clear then. Put Cotto in the ring with men that can withstand his punches and apply pressure on him and he'll lose. MARGO and PAC were able to stop him. Him managed to escape shane but many feel he would have been kayoed anyway in a rematch long before pac got to him. And its a FACT that his belt was a vacated belt by paul williams. Cotto was a paper champ at WW period. Nothing you or anyone else says will change that.
Because if the belt PAC got from DIAZ was a paper belt, then the one he got from cotto is same because they were both vacated by the real champs at the time. Although Casamayor was stripped.
when the fuck did Cotto run from Mosley? he fought a more defensive type fight for the last 2 rounds cause Shane was coming on, but it was a clear cut win for Cotto, and neither Pacquiao nor Margarito fought the same type of fight Shane did, so to say he put the blueprint out there is ridiculous
FACT is was caught trying to cheat, and well no one really knows when he first did it or if it was the only fight he did it in, so pretty much any win of significance on his record now has a big * next to it, not only Cotto, but Cintron, Clottey, hell even Lujan
also when the fuck was Paul Williams the lineal welter weight champ? cause what i remember is Mayweather winning the lineal title from Baldomir and the title was vacated when he retired, only to have Mosley take it once he battered Margarito around, and on to David Diaz, the lineal champ at that time was Casamayor, Diaz only had the title cause the WBC stripped Casamayor of the strap (which he had won against Corrales R.I.P) and handed it Diaz since he was the "interim champion", so there's a HUGE difference between the two cases, at least Cotto actually fought for the title (albeit against crappy opposition in Jennings) instead of just having it handed to him without even fighting, hence the reasoning why Diaz should be classified as a "paper champ" and Cotto not
THE WBO belt, MARGO had it WILLIAMS beat him and took it then vacated it. Margo then took IBF from CINTRON then unified the WBA by beating Cotto.
Cotto fought for a VACATED title against Jennings..He did not take the belt from anyone which makes him a paper champ as the real Champ or title holder VACATED it. Cotto didn't not beat MARGARITO or WILLIAMS to earn his belt. Those were the champions of the respective belts. With MArgo being the world recognized #1 WW champ which passed to Shane after Shane beat him.
you're getting lineal mixed up with undisputed (damn theres a retarded number of different "type" of champions hahaha), you don't have to be undisputed to be the lineal champ, Floyd ONLY won the WBC and was considered the LINEAL CHAMPION, and that was vacated when Floyd retired, Mosley is now considered the LINEAL CHAMP after he beat Margarito, it isn't an actual belt, Margarito held the IBF title he won from Cintron and Williams held the WBO title he won from Quintana (a guy Cotto had already beaten). Williams was never the Lineal Welterweight Champion, hence making him as much of a "paper champ" as the rest :-\, or at least using your logicQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherThe WBO belt was never apart of the lineal belts mayweather won which is the belt Cotto had before PAC took it...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesfirst off nowhere in my post did i say that he was cheated, but no one knows if Margarito had plaster or didn't in the Cotto fight, so to say with "certainty" is pretty stupidQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
when the fuck did Cotto run from Mosley? he fought a more defensive type fight for the last 2 rounds cause Shane was coming on, but it was a clear cut win for Cotto, and neither Pacquiao nor Margarito fought the same type of fight Shane did, so to say he put the blueprint out there is ridiculous
FACT is was caught trying to cheat, and well no one really knows when he first did it or if it was the only fight he did it in, so pretty much any win of significance on his record now has a big * next to it, not only Cotto, but Cintron, Clottey, hell even Lujan
also when the fuck was Paul Williams the lineal welter weight champ? cause what i remember is Mayweather winning the lineal title from Baldomir and the title was vacated when he retired, only to have Mosley take it once he battered Margarito around, and on to David Diaz, the lineal champ at that time was Casamayor, Diaz only had the title cause the WBC stripped Casamayor of the strap (which he had won against Corrales R.I.P) and handed it Diaz since he was the "interim champion", so there's a HUGE difference between the two cases, at least Cotto actually fought for the title (albeit against crappy opposition in Jennings) instead of just having it handed to him without even fighting, hence the reasoning why Diaz should be classified as a "paper champ" and Cotto not
THE WBO belt, MARGO had it WILLIAMS beat him and took it then vacated it. Margo then took IBF from CINTRON then unified the WBA by beating Cotto.
Cotto fought for a VACATED title against Jennings..He did not take the belt from anyone which makes him a paper champ as the real Champ or title holder VACATED it. Cotto didn't not beat MARGARITO or WILLIAMS to earn his belt. Those were the champions of the respective belts. With MArgo being the world recognized #1 WW champ which passed to Shane after Shane beat him.
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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesyou're getting lineal mixed up with undisputed (damn theres a retarded number of different "type" of champions hahaha), you don't have to be undisputed to be the lineal champ, Floyd ONLY won the WBC and was considered the LINEAL CHAMPION, and that was vacated when Floyd retired, Mosley is now considered the LINEAL CHAMP after he beat Margarito, it isn't an actual belt, Margarito held the IBF title he won from Cintron and Williams held the WBO title he won from Quintana (a guy Cotto had already beaten). Williams was never the Lineal Welterweight Champion, hence making him as much of a "paper champ" as the rest :-\, or at least using your logicQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherThe WBO belt was never apart of the lineal belts mayweather won which is the belt Cotto had before PAC took it...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
THE WBO belt, MARGO had it WILLIAMS beat him and took it then vacated it. Margo then took IBF from CINTRON then unified the WBA by beating Cotto.
Cotto fought for a VACATED title against Jennings..He did not take the belt from anyone which makes him a paper champ as the real Champ or title holder VACATED it. Cotto didn't not beat MARGARITO or WILLIAMS to earn his belt. Those were the champions of the respective belts. With MArgo being the world recognized #1 WW champ which passed to Shane after Shane beat him.
Williams won his belt from Magarito, lost it to Quintana only to regain it from quintana then vacated it. Which is still the belt that Cotto picked up out of the trash can..bottom line
in the little WW scheme of things (not including floyd)...margarito and cotto fought to find out who was the best WW. Margarito won. Margarito fought shane. Shane beat Maragrito thus making him the best WW. Everything else after that is secondary. Now if you bring floyd back into the equation, Cotto before he fought pacman was no higher than third in the WW division, belt or not he was behind SHANE MARGO and floyd. Now he's behind PACMAN TOO. PACMAN deserves all credit for his win over hatton and cotto, but he is no way the best WW because he beat Cotto.