Re: Will Khan be able to handle Marquez?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Some people are seriously underating Marquez since his loss to Mayweather if they think Khan can beat him.
Marquez was outclassed by Mayweather who was naturally bigger, faster, stronger and........better.
Khan is nothing like Floyd expect in the speed department.
Khan has improved over his last four fights but has he improved enough to deal with someone of Marquez's skill level ? hell no imo.
Marquez has proved he can deal with fighters faster and naturally bigger than him (Pacquiao) so why would he have trouble with Khan who is a level or two below Pacquiao ?
Marquez stops Khan imo.
Have to disagree with a few things there mate first off the adavntages Mayweather had over Marquez are more or less the same advantages Khan has you like speed, power, naturally bigger and stronger all them apply to Khan.
Marquez has fought above 130 three times and only once over 135 and is or will be 37 years old he isnt improving Khan is, Marquez is an amazing fighter and someone I love to watch but imo Khan if he sticks to the gamplan can beat Marquez at 140 which is not natural at all to Marquez who had never been near 135 until he was 35.
Also you say he has dealt with bigger guys in the past like Pac?? Bigger in what way?? Marquez is 1/2 an inch bigger in height and only an inch shorter in reach so hows Pac a bigger man?????
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6...cquiao1qk5.jpg
Re: Will Khan be able to handle Marquez?
My views as stated earlier, were more on the handicap of which I consider quite severe to overcome, facing JMM in a bout against Amir Khan.
Amir has size that seemingly is being way overlooked here by some.
How tall is Amir, 5'11"? That is an imposing stature at light-welter, 140, by any means of imagination. Goodness, Khan is even being groomed, or in the process of, by the Wildcard Group, to compete for belts at jr middleweight in the not so distant future.
We can put blinders but it'd still be a blunder, to proclaim JMM can hurdle this "Amir obstacle", just by our sheer memory of the fighting qualities of the HOF fighter, in Juan Manuel.
Seriously though, with proper perspective, that is quite a bit of "size" for Juan to deal with while being out of his most competitive division at 130-135lbs. To expect JMM to handily win might just be a case of too much optimism? Maybe.
If the fight is at 130-135, my money is on Juan Manuel Marquez, regardless....
Re: Will Khan be able to handle Marquez?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skel1983
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Some people are seriously underating Marquez since his loss to Mayweather if they think Khan can beat him.
Marquez was outclassed by Mayweather who was naturally bigger, faster, stronger and........better.
Khan is nothing like Floyd expect in the speed department.
Khan has improved over his last four fights but has he improved enough to deal with someone of Marquez's skill level ? hell no imo.
Marquez has proved he can deal with fighters faster and naturally bigger than him (Pacquiao) so why would he have trouble with Khan who is a level or two below Pacquiao ?
Marquez stops Khan imo.
Have to disagree with a few things there mate first off the adavntages Mayweather had over Marquez are more or less the same advantages Khan has you like speed, power, naturally bigger and stronger all them apply to Khan.
Marquez has fought above 130 three times and only once over 135 and is or will be 37 years old he isnt improving Khan is, Marquez is an amazing fighter and someone I love to watch but imo Khan if he sticks to the gamplan can beat Marquez at 140 which is not natural at all to Marquez who had never been near 135 until he was 35.
Also you say he has dealt with bigger guys in the past like Pac?? Bigger in what way?? Marquez is 1/2 an inch bigger in height and only an inch shorter in reach so hows Pac a bigger man?????
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6...cquiao1qk5.jpg
The main problem for Marquez against Mayweather wasn't just weight, it was the fact that Mayweather was the superior counter puncher and took Marquez apart because of it.
Khan doesn't possess the counter punching ability or defense, all he has that is comparable is handspeed and footwork.
Obviously the move up in weight will make Marquez slower which was clear against Floyd but, one thing Marquez has showed while moving up in weight is that he carries power and with Khan's leaky defense and glass chin, i think even a tiny Marquez can take advantage of it.
If Marquez was to land a few of these:
http://www.fightreport.net/wp-conten...el-marquez.gif
Ignore the fact Mayweather lands also :), i can't see Khan being able to take alot of them.
Regarding my opinion on Pacquiao being bigger, height and reach aren't the only factors.
Look at the difference in success both fighters have had while moving up in weight.
Pacquiao is grinding down natural welterweights.
Marquez was struggling with lightweights.
Pacquiao has been more effective because he has been able to fill out more and maintain his speed, power, etc while the smaller Marquez could only move up so much before his speed took a hit.
I think Pacquiao could even be effective at 154 where Marquez's limit at the moment appears to be 135.
Re: Will Khan be able to handle Marquez?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skel1983
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Some people are seriously underating Marquez since his loss to Mayweather if they think Khan can beat him.
Marquez was outclassed by Mayweather who was naturally bigger, faster, stronger and........better.
Khan is nothing like Floyd expect in the speed department.
Khan has improved over his last four fights but has he improved enough to deal with someone of Marquez's skill level ? hell no imo.
Marquez has proved he can deal with fighters faster and naturally bigger than him (Pacquiao) so why would he have trouble with Khan who is a level or two below Pacquiao ?
Marquez stops Khan imo.
Have to disagree with a few things there mate first off the adavntages Mayweather had over Marquez are more or less the same advantages Khan has you like speed, power, naturally bigger and stronger all them apply to Khan.
Marquez has fought above 130 three times and only once over 135 and is or will be 37 years old he isnt improving Khan is, Marquez is an amazing fighter and someone I love to watch but imo Khan if he sticks to the gamplan can beat Marquez at 140 which is not natural at all to Marquez who had never been near 135 until he was 35.
Also you say he has dealt with bigger guys in the past like Pac?? Bigger in what way?? Marquez is 1/2 an inch bigger in height and only an inch shorter in reach so hows Pac a bigger man?????
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6...cquiao1qk5.jpg
The main problem for Marquez against Mayweather wasn't just weight, it was the fact that Mayweather was the superior counter puncher and took Marquez apart because of it.
Khan doesn't possess the counter punching ability or defense, all he has that is comparable is handspeed and footwork.
Obviously the move up in weight will make Marquez slower which was clear against Floyd but, one thing Marquez has showed while moving up in weight is that he carries power and with Khan's leaky defense and glass chin, i think even a tiny Marquez can take advantage of it.
If Marquez was to land a few of these:
http://www.fightreport.net/wp-conten...el-marquez.gif
Ignore the fact Mayweather lands also :), i can't see Khan being able to take alot of them.
Regarding Pacquiao being bigger, height and reach aren't the only factors.
Look at the difference in success both fighters have had while moving up in weight.
Pacquiao is grinding down natural welterweights.
Marquez was struggling with lightweights.
Pacquiao has been more effective because he has been able to fill out more and maintain his speed, power, etc while the smaller Marquez could only move up so much before his speed took a hit.
I think Pacquiao could even be effective at 154 where Marquez's limit at the moment appears to be 135.
What relevance has Pac adapting to the higher wieghts got to do with when Pac/Marquez met at 125 and 130? You said Marquez has shown he can deal with bigger guys when he fought Pac??
I dont understand how the hell Pac moving up and copeing at the higher weights means Marquez dealt with a bigger man at 125/130? Marquez was more or less the same size when they met?
Khan is 3/4 inches bigger than Marquez with a 5 inch reach advantage he is much bigger, we will have to see how the fight pans out but to say Marquez has shown he can deal with bigger guys than use Pac as an example is very confusing.
Re: Will Khan be able to handle Marquez?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skel1983
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skel1983
Have to disagree with a few things there mate first off the adavntages Mayweather had over Marquez are more or less the same advantages Khan has you like speed, power, naturally bigger and stronger all them apply to Khan.
Marquez has fought above 130 three times and only once over 135 and is or will be 37 years old he isnt improving Khan is, Marquez is an amazing fighter and someone I love to watch but imo Khan if he sticks to the gamplan can beat Marquez at 140 which is not natural at all to Marquez who had never been near 135 until he was 35.
Also you say he has dealt with bigger guys in the past like Pac?? Bigger in what way?? Marquez is 1/2 an inch bigger in height and only an inch shorter in reach so hows Pac a bigger man?????
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6...cquiao1qk5.jpg
The main problem for Marquez against Mayweather wasn't just weight, it was the fact that Mayweather was the superior counter puncher and took Marquez apart because of it.
Khan doesn't possess the counter punching ability or defense, all he has that is comparable is handspeed and footwork.
Obviously the move up in weight will make Marquez slower which was clear against Floyd but, one thing Marquez has showed while moving up in weight is that he carries power and with Khan's leaky defense and glass chin, i think even a tiny Marquez can take advantage of it.
If Marquez was to land a few of these:
http://www.fightreport.net/wp-conten...el-marquez.gif
Ignore the fact Mayweather lands also :), i can't see Khan being able to take alot of them.
Regarding Pacquiao being bigger, height and reach aren't the only factors.
Look at the difference in success both fighters have had while moving up in weight.
Pacquiao is grinding down natural welterweights.
Marquez was struggling with lightweights.
Pacquiao has been more effective because he has been able to fill out more and maintain his speed, power, etc while the smaller Marquez could only move up so much before his speed took a hit.
I think Pacquiao could even be effective at 154 where Marquez's limit at the moment appears to be 135.
What relevance has Pac adapting to the higher wieghts got to do with when Pac/Marquez met at 125 and 130? You said Marquez has shown he can deal with bigger guys when he fought Pac??
I dont understand how the hell Pac moving up and copeing at the higher weights means Marquez dealt with a bigger man at 125/130? Marquez was more or less the same size when they met?
Khan is 3/4 inches bigger than Marquez with a 5 inch reach advantage he is much bigger, we will have to see how the fight pans out but to say Marquez has shown he can deal with bigger guys than use Pac as an example is very confusing.
I was using Pacquiao as an example based more on his speed than size.
Marquez was able to deal with the bigger Casamayor and Diaz. Are those better examples for you ? :)
You also never gave me your opinion on the first half of my post ?
Don't you think Marquez has the ability to catch Khan like he was able to do with Mayweather there ?
The thing with Khan though is that he is easier to hit than Floyd plus i doubt Khan could take a shot as well as Floyd did there.
Kotelnik was able to catch Khan a few times but lacked the power to make a difference, I think Marquez's power could and would make the difference between the two.
Re: Will Khan be able to handle Marquez?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Amazing turnaround. I posted in March of this year that Amir could be capable of taking on Juan Manuel Marquez in around a year or so's time and nobody agreed.
Now it seem momentum is swinging his way.
I don't think he needs Marquez just yet. He needs at least one solid, world level opponent first to give him that experience, and also the inner confidence needed.
My guess is that if he beats his March opponent on the Pacquaio Floyd undercard and looks good he may well get one summer fight in before a big showdown with Marquez this time next year.
He could well go into that fight the bookies favourite.
I have been agreeing with Bilbo over Khan, I reckon that the KO was something he should not be solely judged on, I am not convinced it proves him Chiny. The Kid had a great work rate which alone can trouble a lot of people, and if he does fight JMM or Hatton down the line his style could be too much,I reckon that's why he is in the camp he's in, does have some things in common with Pac in terms of speed and volume of work.
Ignoring the fact he can be a cock sometimes then I like him for moving on and proving people wrong.
Re: Will Khan be able to handle Marquez?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Because he beat Andriy Kotelnik, the most mediocre title holder in modern day history ? and even he went the distance winning 4 rounds, and clocking Amir Khan quite a few times late on, even with Amir Khan's supposedly improved "defense".
See, this is what annoys me, and it's not just you who does it, but...
This is what you said before the fight...
"I think Andriy Kotelnik may have the experience and toughness, to maybe drag Amir Khan into deep waters and maybe stop him late on. In the MAB fight i still see the same flaws in Amir Khan."
and this is what you said during the fight...
"But Andriy Kotelnik is no mug either, he's a solid opponent with a decent boxing brain. I didn't think he would get caught with much silly punches. Overall a decent win for Amir Khan."
This is exactly why i don't think he'd get credit for beating the likes of Maidana, Holt, Paulie, D-Hop etc...
It's too easy to use hindsight. If you think a fighter is going to lose a fight and he wins, you should give him credit for it.
I can see it now...If he beats Maidana it's because Maidana is slow and sloppy (which ICB has already said), If he beats Holt, then it's no big deal because Holt hasn't really beaten anyone of note. If he beats Paulie, he'll get stick for not fighting a puncher. He can't win, and it's been like that pretty much since he turned pro, on here.
Re: Will Khan be able to handle Marquez?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Because he beat Andriy Kotelnik, the most mediocre title holder in modern day history ? and even he went the distance winning 4 rounds, and clocking Amir Khan quite a few times late on, even with Amir Khan's supposedly improved "defense".
See, this is what annoys me, and it's not just you who does it, but...
This is what you said before the fight...
"I think Andriy Kotelnik may have the experience and toughness, to maybe drag Amir Khan into deep waters and maybe stop him late on. In the MAB fight i still see the same flaws in Amir Khan."
and this is what you said during the fight...
"But Andriy Kotelnik is no mug either, he's a solid opponent with a decent boxing brain. I didn't think he would get caught with much silly punches. Overall a decent win for Amir Khan."
This is exactly why i don't think he'd get credit for beating the likes of Maidana, Holt, Paulie, D-Hop etc...
It's too easy to use hindsight. If you think a fighter is going to lose a fight and he wins, you should give him credit for it.
I can see it now...If he beats Maidana it's because Maidana is slow and sloppy (which ICB has already said), If he beats Holt, then it's no big deal because Holt hasn't really beaten anyone of note. If he beats Paulie, he'll get stick for not fighting a puncher. He can't win, and it's been like that pretty much since he turned pro, on here.
This was just after the Breidis Prescott fight, and not long after he was getting dropped by fighters like Michael Gomez. So yes i wasn't sure how Amir Khan would react.
And as i said it was a decent win for Amir Khan, im suprised you went back that long. And tried to disprove me yet you missed the thread, where i gave Amir Khan credit for the win just after the fight.
I've never said Andriy Kotelnik is a bad fighter, i do think he is pretty mediocre. He's a decent boxer as i've always said, but he is pretty basic and mediocre.
And he doesn't do any one thing that well, and my prediction wasn't too far off. He did drag Amir Khan into deep waters in the later rounds, and did catch Amir Khan late on. But Amir Khan was able to be cautious enough to survive some hairy moments late on. And Andriy Kotelnik did hit hard enough which pretty much sums it up.
Because at that time no one really knew of Amir Khan's improved defense, as you said its easy to say this and that with hindsight. Just like its easy for you too pull old comments from my posts, but i don't think i've said anything different have i ?
I've always said Andriy Kotelnik is decent, but again he is pretty much one of the worst title holders in modern history. But i've said it was a decent win for Amir Khan and thats it, decent now its time to move on and see if he can beat some of the big boys.
He needs to beat a puncher for a start, he's only ever fought 1 opponent who can punch and he was layed out. Or he needs to fight an American fighter with a name, someone like Devon Alexander or Timothy Bradley would be good wins for him.
Re: Will Khan be able to handle Marquez?
No, it was after the MAB fight. If you're saying that he's the most mediocre titleist in modern day history, then yes, in a way you are saying he's shite. It's quite a statement to make.Especially after you predicted he'd knock Khan out - yes that was after the MAB fight aswell.I don't get how you don't think the Kotelnik fight means anything, yet you was so excited you had to start a thread about Mitchell beating Prescott.
Re: Will Khan be able to handle Marquez?
Iv'e already seen how Marquez superior boxing skill is nullified by someone who can box moving backwards.
If anyone can, check out Marquez' fight with Julian Wheeler.
I know it was a 10th round stoppage but trust me, Wheeler was giving Marquez a bit of a boxing lesson before the ref brought on a pretty horrible premature stoppage.
I don't know if Marquez has fought someone who can fight in reverse gear as well since ???
Re: Will Khan be able to handle Marquez?
I would say no. Marquez just needs to land a couple of pearls and Khan is scrabbling around like a man on queer street.
Re: Will Khan be able to handle Marquez?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimboogie
Iv'e already seen how Marquez superior boxing skill is nullified by someone who can box moving backwards.
If anyone can, check out Marquez' fight with Julian Wheeler.
I know it was a 10th round stoppage but trust me, Wheeler was giving Marquez a bit of a boxing lesson before the ref brought on a pretty horrible premature stoppage.
I don't know if Marquez has fought someone who can fight in reverse gear as well since ???
JMM had only been a pro for 2 years and was nowhere near the fighter, he become. He was actually an aggressive come forward fighter, are you actually using that as an example ? come on mate that is seriously reaching for straws.
Re: Will Khan be able to handle Marquez?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
No, it was after the MAB fight. If you're saying that he's the most mediocre titleist in modern day history, then yes, in a way you are saying he's shite. It's quite a statement to make.Especially after you predicted he'd knock Khan out - yes that was after the MAB fight aswell.I don't get how you don't think the Kotelnik fight means anything, yet you was so excited you had to start a thread about Mitchell beating Prescott.
I never said he would KO Amir Khan, i said maybe he can. I never ever made a comment where i thought Andriy Kotelnik was the favorite, i was just pointing out if he can take the early storm of Amir Khan, maybe he can get to him late, because at that point i'd never seen Amir Khan go 12 rounds.
Come on mate are you honestly picking me up on a comment, i made that long ago ? to be honest i don't think i said anything real different than im saying now, i said Andriy Kotelnik is decent but he is mediocre, there isn't many worst title holders than him in the last decade.
That doesn't mean he's shite that just means, he's not world championship calibre, and he won his title off again one of the worst title holders in the last decade. But i did give Amir Khan credit for going 12 rounds and winning, do you want me to show you that thread ? i don't see whats so wrong about me giving Kevin Mitchell credit.
He hasn't been in the spotlight like Amir Khan, has for quite awhile. And he moved up in weight comeback from injuries, and got a dominant win over a dangerous puncher, who destroyed the fighter you and Bilbo rate highly, so why wouldn't i give him credit ? i don't really know what your getting at.
Re: Will Khan be able to handle Marquez?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimboogie
Iv'e already seen how Marquez superior boxing skill is nullified by someone who can box moving backwards.
If anyone can, check out Marquez' fight with Julian Wheeler.
I know it was a 10th round stoppage but trust me, Wheeler was giving Marquez a bit of a boxing lesson before the ref brought on a pretty horrible premature stoppage.
I don't know if Marquez has fought someone who can fight in reverse gear as well since ???
JMM had only been a pro for 2 years and was nowhere near the fighter, he become. He was actually an aggressive come forward fighter, are you actually using that as an example ? come on mate that is seriously reaching for straws.
Reaching for straws lol Clutching at straws dont you mean mate.
Re: Will Khan be able to handle Marquez?
khan handled barrera very well. khan will be able to give marquez a tough fight.
