Re: AL Bernstein - Team Mayweather's....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fan johnny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheBranMan
I don't believe that he, above all other boxers, needs a special set of rules to compete. I believe all championship bouts should embrace more conclusive types of testing. This kind of thing happening for such a large-scale fight is helping the sport progress.
Whether you agree or disagree with the obviously suspicious facts concerning Pacquiao's weight and his camp, Floyd's request only highlighted a fatal flaw in the sport that we love. Lets do something about it.
Why? Is a fighter's safety less important in his first bout than it is when he finally reaches a championship bout? Would it be logical to suspect usage of a substance that enhances or has the potential to enhance performance when a fighter is starting out or when he's has reached his goal? Violating rules in the spirit of competition doesn't change because there is a title at stake. So why would you limit testing to championship bouts? Your suggestion doesn't meet the criteria that bans substances.
Too many people have knee jerk reactions to this whole subject and don't give it enough thought or weigh the evidence before coming to conclusions. In general we make rules for people that follow the rules. People that break the rules don't care because they are not bound by them. Rush judgments to fix problems usually cause more problems than they solve.
Al Bernstein is spot on about primary subject. Floyd's team screwed up bigtime otherwise we'd be discussing whose going to win and why.
The reason it can't be done at all levels is simple............money.
Having the testing at the championship level is a good starting place, and it's the place that most boxers strive for, so they know once they get to that level they must be clean, therefore, it has an effect of creating incentive to train clean rather than train dirty.
I agree that money is always a prohibitive factor when making rules, which is why great care must be taken when making them. I don't agree that it can't be done. It is being done. The problem in this discussion is the smear campaign has people thinking that the current methods are not good enough although methods can always be improved.
I'm not being facetious, help me out here... I really don't understand that statement.
Re: AL Bernstein - Team Mayweather's....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheBranMan
I don't believe that he, above all other boxers, needs a special set of rules to compete. I believe all championship bouts should embrace more conclusive types of testing. This kind of thing happening for such a large-scale fight is helping the sport progress.
Whether you agree or disagree with the obviously suspicious facts concerning Pacquiao's weight and his camp, Floyd's request only highlighted a fatal flaw in the sport that we love. Lets do something about it.
Great point.
Its another reason why (If PAC believes it is weakening or bad time out from training )
That he should of said fine, you and me both we get them done together.
That way if they are at all weakening then they are weakened together.
Back to an even field with no problems.
Re: AL Bernstein - Team Mayweather's....
I pretty much agree with everything Al Bernstein says on the matter. He hasnt convinced me, have from the start of this thing going sideways in negotiations.
Im pissed this fighting isnt happening, with both fighters, but I also can see thru the charade of bs the Mayweathers have been playing and surprised so few others have on this site. I dont know the law well and Im not some internet wannabe lawyer who has it all figured out, but if the fight cant happen I hope the Mayweathers get their asses sued off.
Id much rather the suit go away in the name of a fight tho. Until such time, disgusted in this whole deal.
Re: AL Bernstein - Team Mayweather's....
You got it Youngblood, I agree.
The suits and the huge egos (includes all, down to the cooks and utilities, LOL) of everyone involved, are ramming heads right now... maybe sometime later this year, sans the silliness, this may still happen.
Doubletake, the silliness should go away first and foremost, then without it maybe over-inflated egos deflates to just about to normal sizes... then logic (MONEY:)) can prevail on this, to finally have a go.
The business on the drug testing can be handled without the circus-type atmosphere, then maybe... we may have the mother-of-all fights within our fingertips... we can only hope.
Re: AL Bernstein - Team Mayweather's....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KananKrus
What is the proper way nowadays... Is it not through the courts, via a lawsuit? That is, if you believe in the justice system.
Allowing himself to undergo an "out of the ordinary" blood test is allowing team Mayweather an upmanship which is unwarranted in this case, for Pac views himself as not the lesser star, and certainly without the need to further prove himself for the "Floyd benefit".
Read on the Al Bernstein write up, there are more answers there on his interpretations than I can meagerly equal as a response to future questions. Remeber tho' there are two sides to this equation, let us not just railroad anything like nothing.
Let us not be upset, nor allow ourselves be infuriated by all these.
Read up Chino, Bernstein's got some good angles, Man. He is with us here every now and then with feature write-ups for our everyday struggles for answers to the mind boggling perpexity as the sport of boxing is.
Less aggression, and allow for objectivity.
Satisfaction out of bashing and ridiculing the other poster's view? That is naughty....
Sorry too lengthy now...
You should read up, Kanankrus. It's called the negotiating table. Just like Pac wanted a $10 mil fine for each pound Mayweather would have been over the WW limit, Mayweather wanted random testing. If Pac isn't on anything, why is testing such an issue. It's not one-upmanship, it's something you either say yes or no to. Many fights haven't been made because one fighter made what the other thought of as an unreasonable request. Thing is, why is random blood testing both fighters would be subjected to unreasonable? Shane didn't fight Oscar a 3rd time because Oscar wanted 70% of the purse even though Shane won both the other fights. That's reasonable. Roy didn't fight Bernard a 2nd time back in the 90s because Roy was the LHW champ and had beaten Bernard the first time around. He felt 'Nard should come up to his weight class if he wanted another fight. That was reasonable. How is it unreasonable to refuse a test you'd both be taking if you're innocent? I would have understood if Mayweather wanted him to use gloves he didn't want, a ring he didn't want, hell, even a venue he didn't want. But Pac got everything else he wanted. The real question is why not this?
Re: AL Bernstein - Team Mayweather's....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fan johnny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fan johnny
Why? Is a fighter's safety less important in his first bout than it is when he finally reaches a championship bout? Would it be logical to suspect usage of a substance that enhances or has the potential to enhance performance when a fighter is starting out or when he's has reached his goal? Violating rules in the spirit of competition doesn't change because there is a title at stake. So why would you limit testing to championship bouts? Your suggestion doesn't meet the criteria that bans substances.
Too many people have knee jerk reactions to this whole subject and don't give it enough thought or weigh the evidence before coming to conclusions. In general we make rules for people that follow the rules. People that break the rules don't care because they are not bound by them. Rush judgments to fix problems usually cause more problems than they solve.
Al Bernstein is spot on about primary subject. Floyd's team screwed up bigtime otherwise we'd be discussing whose going to win and why.
The reason it can't be done at all levels is simple............money.
Having the testing at the championship level is a good starting place, and it's the place that most boxers strive for, so they know once they get to that level they must be clean, therefore, it has an effect of creating incentive to train clean rather than train dirty.
I agree that money is always a prohibitive factor when making rules, which is why great care must be taken when making them. I don't agree that it can't be done. It is being done. The problem in this discussion is the smear campaign has people thinking that the current methods are not good enough although methods can always be improved.
I'm not being facetious, help me out here... I really don't understand that statement.
Really? Sienna and Magenta? ;D
Just messing with you man.
Yes I can see how my statement may be confusing. I'll try to clarify.
Most boxers at least that get tv exposure and are in the public eye, have a goal of getting a title eventually. If they KNOW going into this they will be tested to the olympic standard once they get to that level it creates incentive for them to train clean, because once they get to that level they will know there is a much better chance of getting caught. I'm not saying to stop at championship level, but to start there. Once that becomes common place then you can work your way down from there, interim titles, title eliminators etc. Once that gets done, test the higher ranked guys and keep working your way down from there.
Yes the health of ALL boxers is equally important, but the reality of logistics, creating a working system etc. has to start somewhere as a trial to make sure the model works, why not start from the top?
I think it would be good press for boxing as a whole to state that it's getting cleaned up. It's a lot better then for example Mosley who passed ALL the tests available he never tested positive remember and he only got caught when the whole Balco lists came out. This brings up the example that designer PEDs are unable to be tested to the same standard. Using urinalysis is not good enough. For example the EPO test that was developed in 2003 that has been posted numerous times on here is practically void in what it finds because users of EPO have learned if they simply take lesser amounts more often it doesn't show up on that screen.
Re: AL Bernstein - Team Mayweather's....
What would I do in Manny's shoes? I would take the test and make 40million dollars.
How could Mayweather not make demands on blood testing with all the speculations that have come out since it was brought up?
I think its a failure in effective testing on Nevada's part to not test blood for peds... I mean urine isn't as indicative a manner of testing for most of the high quality "steroids", excuse my generality of the term, that are out there.
IMO this casts a shadow on all of boxing because it means all boxers have a pretty easy path to taking steroids and not getting caught if they do it correctly. Which basically means anyone with enough money can do it with virtually no repercussions.
Re: AL Bernstein - Team Mayweather's....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheBranMan
I don't believe that he, above all other boxers, needs a special set of rules to compete. I believe all championship bouts should embrace more conclusive types of testing. This kind of thing happening for such a large-scale fight is helping the sport progress.
Whether you agree or disagree with the obviously suspicious facts concerning Pacquiao's weight and his camp, Floyd's request only highlighted a fatal flaw in the sport that we love. Lets do something about it.
Great point.
Its another reason why (If PAC believes it is weakening or bad time out from training )
That he should of said fine, you and me both we get them done together.
That way if they are at all weakening then they are weakened together.
Back to an even field with no problems.
Both take the tests. Both suffer fines if over the limit. What's the problem?
:rolleyes:
Re: AL Bernstein - Team Mayweather's....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KananKrus
What is the proper way nowadays... Is it not through the courts, via a lawsuit? That is, if you believe in the justice system.
Allowing himself to undergo an "out of the ordinary" blood test is allowing team Mayweather an upmanship which is unwarranted in this case, for Pac views himself as not the lesser star, and certainly without the need to further prove himself for the "Floyd benefit".
Read on the Al Bernstein write up, there are more answers there on his interpretations than I can meagerly equal as a response to future questions. Remeber tho' there are two sides to this equation, let us not just railroad anything like nothing.
Let us not be upset, nor allow ourselves be infuriated by all these.
Read up Chino, Bernstein's got some good angles, Man. He is with us here every now and then with feature write-ups for our everyday struggles for answers to the mind boggling perpexity as the sport of boxing is.
Less aggression, and allow for objectivity.
Satisfaction out of bashing and ridiculing the other poster's view? That is naughty....
Sorry too lengthy now...
Before the negotiations he'd already been publicly accused by several boxing people of taking roids. If he'd accepted the random testing outright without any bargaining over it it would have been a massive psychological victory for Manny, not Mayweather. Manny would have been saying I've been clean all the time and you're going to get beaten like Cotto and your allegations rammed down your throat. Instead he gave mayweather the victory by running away from the test. Bernstein's article is just like a million articles by baseball writers when McGwire, Bonds etc. were breaking records. No evidence of cheating, all down to hard work in the gym etc. etc. Nobody in the national boxing media wants to believe Manny took setroids, he's their biggest story. OK, there'll be an exception that proves the rule but in general we've had radio silence from major national boxing people, HBO, Showtime, the sanctioning bodies etc.
Re: AL Bernstein - Team Mayweather's....
Just want to post my take on this.
If Im Pacman, I will not take the test if its being pushed by someone like the Mayweathers -- who happen to be the first few people who brought up this PDE's thing with Pacman.
Pacman never tested positive under the NSAC tests, why would he submit himself for additional test if its being asked by acussers? If NSAC will require it then I will submit myself on it right away no questions asked. If its on the rules then I will abide the rules. I just dont get the point on me having to follow the rules of the people who keeps on accusing me doping.
Mayweather turned himself into a law maker here just to duck the fight. He knew Manny's not gonna play by his rules and he will make sure of that anyway. He can get off the fight, and leave Pacman looking like an a$$.
Re: AL Bernstein - Team Mayweather's....
who is manny to demand $10million from PBF for each pound over weight?
Cuts both ways doesn't it. :p
Re: AL Bernstein - Team Mayweather's....
With all due respect to Al...but he is just turning a blind eye to a subject that needs to be addressed. Whether Floyd demanded the tests as a smear campaign or because of genuine concern (or maybe both) may not be clear to some. But Manny, fair or not, has had the issue of PED's surround him before this fight was even being discussed. There clearly needs to be stricter and much more advanced drug testing in ALL sports. But if you are an athlete who is being suspected...and you have nothing to hide...why not take all the tests and shut up all your critics? Pride?! Morals?! Because it weakens you physically?!!!!! And on top of all that you walk away from 40 million dollars!!!!! It doesn't pass the smell test one bit. The PED problem in sports is so large (baseball has already revealed it's depth). If tomorrow...sports organizing bodies forced their athletes to take the most advanced drug tests (like muscle biopsy)...you very well would have a who's who's list of superstar names guilty. Floyd is no angel. But all team PAC has done, is to make the cloud of suspicion over Manny that much darker.
Re: AL Bernstein - Team Mayweather's....
It will be interesting if the fact that urine testing can now detect EPO and HGH was presented to Team Mayweather. Some posters have helped me out by sending me some links to articles where even the head of the USADA backed these statements. That, backed with the fact that blood testing has never detected a HGH user would make it hard to understand why Team Mayweather would still insist on blood testing.
Re: AL Bernstein - Team Mayweather's....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Howlin Mad Missy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheBranMan
I don't believe that he, above all other boxers, needs a special set of rules to compete. I believe all championship bouts should embrace more conclusive types of testing. This kind of thing happening for such a large-scale fight is helping the sport progress.
Whether you agree or disagree with the obviously suspicious facts concerning Pacquiao's weight and his camp, Floyd's request only highlighted a fatal flaw in the sport that we love. Lets do something about it.
Great point.
Its another reason why (If PAC believes it is weakening or bad time out from training )
That he should of said fine, you and me both we get them done together.
That way if they are at all weakening then they are weakened together.
Back to an even field with no problems.
Both take the tests. Both suffer fines if over the limit. What's the problem?
:rolleyes:
Tish there is no limit, there is zero tolerance with hgh.
You mean Over weight... I see your point.
:duel33:
Roll your eyes again,speak French,anything, Hola!
Re: AL Bernstein - Team Mayweather's....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Howlin Mad Missy
who is manny to demand $10million from PBF for each pound over weight?
Cuts both ways doesn't it. :p
Manny has every right to demand such. Remember that he is the one with the belt, the current #1 P4P king, and is a bigger draw than Mayweather.
And if your memory is too short, remember how Mayweather showed no absolute respect to Marquez on the weight issue. Now he is getting his karma.
