Re: Resumes - Mayweather vs Pacquiao
Both guys have great resumes....no need to shit on one fighter to say another is good. I'm equally impressed with both for different reasons. Pac has been a beast as of late and floyd has cruised through just about everyone he's faced. Before fights these guys are the so called "one" then floyd beats them and all of the sudden they are old, small, blah, blah. Funny that's not the case when all hopes are high and the ppv cash is being handed over before hand but ah well......we're actually a couple of months away from the same being said about shane.
Re: Resumes - Mayweather vs Pacquiao
Their resumes are basically equivalent, although I'd give Manny a slight edge as of right now, although should both win their next fights, I think the Mosley win would push Mayweather's just ahead. The easiest way to look at is the number of hall of famers they have both faced.
Pacquiao: (Certain HoFers) Marco Antonio Barrera, Erik Morales, Juan Manuel Marquez, Oscar De La Hoya (Probable) Ricky Hatton, Miguel Cotto, Chatchai Sasakul (Possible but unlikely) Jorge Solis, Oscar Larios
Mayweather: (Certain HoFers) Genaro Hernandez, Diego Corrales, Juan Manuel Marquez, Oscar De La Hoya (Probable) Jose Luis Castillo, Arturo Gatti, Ricky Hatton (Possible but unlikely) Zab Judah, Jesus Chavez
So that's pretty close to even, but with Pacquiao having a slight edge. Part of the whole 'ducking' issue also comes down to where people watch fights. Anything below Lightweight doesn't get much attention, even among many fans. You can make an argument that Mayweather should have fought Margarito or Cotto, however you can equally make the same argument for Pacquiao with the likes of Joan Guzman, Nate Campbell or Humberto Soto at the lower weights. In the end, both have taken more than enough dangerous fights and have probably the best resumes in the sport and once their careers are over, the fights they 'ducked' will be forgotten in favour of realizing just how many dangerous opponents they fought.
Re: Resumes - Mayweather vs Pacquiao
There are those who believe that Manny Pacquiao was defeated by & then beat past his prime Erik Morales, lost twice to Juan Manuel Marquez, beat a mediocre David Diaz, a shell & weight drained Oscar dela Hoya, a no-defense & never elite boxer in Ricky Hatton and a damaged Miguel Cotto.
Just out of curiosity, this is my question to those who do not find Manny's accomplishment as impressive nor do they find his resume to be better than Floyd's. Is it then justifiable for Floyd Mayweather to demand that Manny go through a rigid blood test for PEDs considering that Manny is just average (even below average as some thinks) & is even the underdog in that fight?
Re: Resumes - Mayweather vs Pacquiao
Just out of curiosity, this is my question to those who do not find Manny's
Quote:
accomplishment as impressive nor do they find his resume to be better than Floyd's. Is it then justifiable for Floyd Mayweather to demand that Manny go through a rigid blood test for PEDs considering that Manny is just average (even below average as some thinks) & is even the underdog in that fight?
I'm afraid your context is skewed. Logically, demanding the condition of more rigorous drug testing has nothing to do with whether your opponent is washed up or great. It has to do with making sure that he is clean
How does the term "justifiable" find its way into a conversation about drug testing? A fighter is justifiable in seeking any conditions that brings a greater level of fairness to the competition. But we can turn that question around. Given the fact that the fans of Manny claim that Floyd only fights push overs, how justifiable is Manny in refusing to take part in random drug testing, considering that he is thought to be way above the class of everyone PBF has fought previously?
Floyd did not refuse to fight. Manny did. Floyd said that "Let us submit ourselves to random drug testing leading up to our battle". Manny responded "no way Jose". So who refused to fight. Floyd did not refuse to abide by any condition to make the fight, Manny did. Floyd did not demand any special dispositions for himself, Manny did. It was Manny who had convenient hangups about his blood being drawn.
No amount of dumbing down of the conversation on the sweet science will vitiate the logical indictment of Manny's position. Floyd Mayweather Junior threw down a gauntlet at Manny's feet in the challenging fashion of Knights of old. Manny refused to pick it up, thus by extension refusing to accept the challenge to do battle. ;D
Re: Resumes - Mayweather vs Pacquiao
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InTheNeutralCorner
There are those who believe that Manny Pacquiao was defeated by & then beat past his prime Erik Morales, lost twice to Juan Manuel Marquez, beat a mediocre David Diaz, a shell & weight drained Oscar dela Hoya, a no-defense & never elite boxer in Ricky Hatton and a damaged Miguel Cotto.
Just out of curiosity, this is my question to those who do not find Manny's accomplishment as impressive nor do they find his resume to be better than Floyd's. Is it then justifiable for Floyd Mayweather to demand that Manny go through a rigid blood test for PEDs considering that Manny is just average (even below average as some thinks) & is even the underdog in that fight?
Is it justifiable to ask for 10,000,000 per pound over when Floyd has onl been overweight once? Is it hjustifiable to knock back $40,000,000+ for the sake of a few blood tests? No one has ever said Manny is jus average, they merely say that his accomplishments may not be quite as out of this world and god like as some Pactards think they are.
Re: Resumes - Mayweather vs Pacquiao
I'd have to say their resumes are pretty even... At the end of the day, styles make fights. There's a lot to compare... I dunno?
On a side note, Margarito will NEVER get a piece of Mayweather. Money knows where his mouth is.
On a extra side note... I'm predicting Clottey takes a piece of Pacquiao... Just a piece though (sadly, he ain't that hungry).
No, Clottey will take just enough for Mayweather to finish the meal ;)
Re: Resumes - Mayweather vs Pacquiao
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JJson
Just out of curiosity, this is my question to those who do not find Manny's
Quote:
accomplishment as impressive nor do they find his resume to be better than Floyd's. Is it then justifiable for Floyd Mayweather to demand that Manny go through a rigid blood test for PEDs considering that Manny is just average (even below average as some thinks) & is even the underdog in that fight?
I'm afraid your context is skewed. Logically, demanding the condition of more rigorous drug testing has nothing to do with whether your opponent is washed up or great. It has to do with making sure that he is clean
How does the term "justifiable" find its way into a conversation about drug testing? A fighter is justifiable in seeking any conditions that brings a greater level of fairness to the competition. But we can turn that question around. Given the fact that the fans of Manny claim that Floyd only fights push overs, how justifiable is Manny in refusing to take part in random drug testing, considering that he is thought to be way above the class of everyone PBF has fought previously?
Floyd did not refuse to fight. Manny did. Floyd said that "Let us submit ourselves to random drug testing leading up to our battle". Manny responded "no way Jose". So who refused to fight. Floyd did not refuse to abide by any condition to make the fight, Manny did. Floyd did not demand any special dispositions for himself, Manny did. It was Manny who had convenient hangups about his blood being drawn.
No amount of dumbing down of the conversation on the sweet science will vitiate the logical indictment of Manny's position. Floyd Mayweather Junior threw down a gauntlet at Manny's feet in the challenging fashion of Knights of old. Manny refused to pick it up, thus by extension refusing to accept the challenge to do battle. ;D
I may have used the wrong word. It may be justifiable to request for a blood test to clean up the sport but why now when the fighter that Floyd is facing is deemed inferior to him by a number of posters in this forum. Manny is the underdog. I feel that it's like Lebron James demanding blood test from Vince Carter before they play ball. It may be valid to request for the blood test if there is suspicion that the opponent is using but if the opponent is not seen as someone exceptional, then where did the suspicion come from? And do you think it was to bring a greater level of fairness to the competition? But there was no level of fairness when he fought Marquez, was there?
I am not condoning Manny's response to the demand. He could have responded better. I am just posting a question with regards to the demand that started the disagreement. The motive for Floyd's demand is suspicious. The refusal to accede to the demand also placed Manny under suspicion.
Re: Resumes - Mayweather vs Pacquiao
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InTheNeutralCorner
There are those who believe that Manny Pacquiao was defeated by & then beat past his prime Erik Morales, lost twice to Juan Manuel Marquez, beat a mediocre David Diaz, a shell & weight drained Oscar dela Hoya, a no-defense & never elite boxer in Ricky Hatton and a damaged Miguel Cotto.
Just out of curiosity, this is my question to those who do not find Manny's accomplishment as impressive nor do they find his resume to be better than Floyd's. Is it then justifiable for Floyd Mayweather to demand that Manny go through a rigid blood test for PEDs considering that Manny is just average (even below average as some thinks) & is even the underdog in that fight?
Is it justifiable to ask for 10,000,000 per pound over when Floyd has onl been overweight once? Is it hjustifiable to knock back $40,000,000+ for the sake of a few blood tests? No one has ever said Manny is jus average, they merely say that his accomplishments may not be quite as out of this world and god like as some Pactards think they are.
Would you rather have Team Pacquiao request $ 10,000,000 per pound over the limit or a stipulation that there will be no fight if any of them is over the limit? This had been done before in Corrales-Castillo III? Floyd did not go beyong the 147 lb limit with Marquez so I don't think this would have been an issue for him even if the request is for $ 20,000,000.
Re: Resumes - Mayweather vs Pacquiao
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InTheNeutralCorner
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InTheNeutralCorner
There are those who believe that Manny Pacquiao was defeated by & then beat past his prime Erik Morales, lost twice to Juan Manuel Marquez, beat a mediocre David Diaz, a shell & weight drained Oscar dela Hoya, a no-defense & never elite boxer in Ricky Hatton and a damaged Miguel Cotto.
Just out of curiosity, this is my question to those who do not find Manny's accomplishment as impressive nor do they find his resume to be better than Floyd's. Is it then justifiable for Floyd Mayweather to demand that Manny go through a rigid blood test for PEDs considering that Manny is just average (even below average as some thinks) & is even the underdog in that fight?
Is it justifiable to ask for 10,000,000 per pound over when Floyd has onl been overweight once? Is it hjustifiable to knock back $40,000,000+ for the sake of a few blood tests? No one has ever said Manny is jus average, they merely say that his accomplishments may not be quite as out of this world and god like as some Pactards think they are.
Would you rather have Team Pacquiao request $ 10,000,000 per pound over the limit or a stipulation that there will be no fight if any of them is over the limit? This had been done before in Corrales-Castillo III? Floyd did not go beyong the 147 lb limit with Marquez so I don't think this would have been an issue for him even if the request is for $ 20,000,000.
The point is Pac started the stipulations thinking he could win the one up game. Then FLoyd agreed to his ask and threw one back and Pac ran away with his tail between his legs. Are you naive enough to believe that Pac ran away from a 40 million fight just because he didnt like blood tests even though he'd been filmed taking them before? If Pac had nothing to hide the tests wouldnt be an issue would they?
Re: Resumes - Mayweather vs Pacquiao
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InTheNeutralCorner
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JJson
Just out of curiosity, this is my question to those who do not find Manny's
Quote:
accomplishment as impressive nor do they find his resume to be better than Floyd's. Is it then justifiable for Floyd Mayweather to demand that Manny go through a rigid blood test for PEDs considering that Manny is just average (even below average as some thinks) & is even the underdog in that fight?
I'm afraid your context is skewed. Logically, demanding the condition of more rigorous drug testing has nothing to do with whether your opponent is washed up or great. It has to do with making sure that he is clean
How does the term "justifiable" find its way into a conversation about drug testing? A fighter is justifiable in seeking any conditions that brings a greater level of fairness to the competition. But we can turn that question around. Given the fact that the fans of Manny claim that Floyd only fights push overs, how justifiable is Manny in refusing to take part in random drug testing, considering that he is thought to be way above the class of everyone PBF has fought previously?
Floyd did not refuse to fight. Manny did. Floyd said that "Let us submit ourselves to random drug testing leading up to our battle". Manny responded "no way Jose". So who refused to fight. Floyd did not refuse to abide by any condition to make the fight, Manny did. Floyd did not demand any special dispositions for himself, Manny did. It was Manny who had convenient hangups about his blood being drawn.
No amount of dumbing down of the conversation on the sweet science will vitiate the logical indictment of Manny's position. Floyd Mayweather Junior threw down a gauntlet at Manny's feet in the challenging fashion of Knights of old. Manny refused to pick it up, thus by extension refusing to accept the challenge to do battle. ;D
I may have used the wrong word. It may be justifiable to request for a blood test to clean up the sport but why
now when the fighter that Floyd is facing is deemed inferior to him by a number of posters in this forum. Manny is the underdog. I feel that it's like Lebron James demanding blood test from Vince Carter before they play ball. It may be valid to request for the blood test if there is suspicion that the opponent is using but if the opponent is not seen as someone exceptional, then where did the suspicion come from? And do you think it was to bring a greater level of fairness to the competition? But there was no level of fairness when he fought Marquez, was there?
I am not condoning Manny's response to the demand. He could have responded better. I am just posting a question with regards to the demand that started the disagreement. The motive for Floyd's demand is suspicious. The refusal to accede to the demand also placed Manny under suspicion.
I say you pose a great question. Many of the people on this forum thinks that Pacquiao is an average fighter that got lucky beating shot or over the hill fighters. So if he's deem so inferior in boxing and got fighters that were shot, why do they want him to take a blood test anyway if he's not that good or great? Especially against an undefeated boxer like Floyd that many here claims is the Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, Pele, Johnny Unitas, of this sport?
Re: Resumes - Mayweather vs Pacquiao
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InTheNeutralCorner
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JJson
Just out of curiosity, this is my question to those who do not find Manny's I'm afraid your context is skewed. Logically, demanding the condition of more rigorous drug testing has nothing to do with whether your opponent is washed up or great. It has to do with making sure that he is clean
How does the term "justifiable" find its way into a conversation about drug testing? A fighter is justifiable in seeking any conditions that brings a greater level of fairness to the competition. But we can turn that question around. Given the fact that the fans of Manny claim that Floyd only fights push overs, how justifiable is Manny in refusing to take part in random drug testing, considering that he is thought to be way above the class of everyone PBF has fought previously?
Floyd did not refuse to fight. Manny did. Floyd said that "Let us submit ourselves to random drug testing leading up to our battle". Manny responded "no way Jose". So who refused to fight. Floyd did not refuse to abide by any condition to make the fight, Manny did. Floyd did not demand any special dispositions for himself, Manny did. It was Manny who had convenient hangups about his blood being drawn.
No amount of dumbing down of the conversation on the sweet science will vitiate the logical indictment of Manny's position. Floyd Mayweather Junior threw down a gauntlet at Manny's feet in the challenging fashion of Knights of old. Manny refused to pick it up, thus by extension refusing to accept the challenge to do battle. ;D
I may have used the wrong word. It may be justifiable to request for a blood test to clean up the sport but why
now when the fighter that Floyd is facing is deemed inferior to him by a number of posters in this forum. Manny is the underdog. I feel that it's like Lebron James demanding blood test from Vince Carter before they play ball. It may be valid to request for the blood test if there is suspicion that the opponent is using but if the opponent is not seen as someone exceptional, then where did the suspicion come from? And do you think it was to bring a greater level of fairness to the competition? But there was no level of fairness when he fought Marquez, was there?
I am not condoning Manny's response to the demand. He could have responded better. I am just posting a question with regards to the demand that started the disagreement. The motive for Floyd's demand is suspicious. The refusal to accede to the demand also placed Manny under suspicion.
I say you pose a great question. Many of the people on this forum thinks that Pacquiao is an average fighter that got lucky beating shot or over the hill fighters. So if he's deem so inferior in boxing and got fighters that were shot, why do they want him to take a blood test anyway if he's not that good or great? Especially against an undefeated boxer like Floyd that many here claims is the Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, Pele, Johnny Unitas, of this sport?
Only a gibbering moron would call Manny Pacquiao an average fighter. He's an all-time great.
Re: Resumes - Mayweather vs Pacquiao
CFH, I agree with you there. I don't consider Manny as an average fighter as much as I also don't consider Floyd an average boxer. I just posted the question to those who, as generalbulldog said, deem him as inferior in boxing and got fighters that were shot. Why did the undefeated Floyd demand for a rigid blood test? Where then did the suspicion of PED use came from?
And to answer eagle's question, just because Manny was filmed taking the blood test, that doesn't necessarily mean that he liked it. It was required of him by the boxing commission.
Re: Resumes - Mayweather vs Pacquiao
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InTheNeutralCorner
CFH, I agree with you there. I don't consider Manny as an average fighter as much as I also don't consider Floyd an average boxer. I just posted the question to those who, as generalbulldog said, deem him as inferior in boxing and got fighters that were shot. Why did the undefeated Floyd demand for a rigid blood test? Where then did the suspicion of PED use came from?
And to answer eagle's question, just because Manny was filmed taking the blood test, that doesn't necessarily mean that he liked it. It was required of him by the boxing commission.
Oh so now he gave up 40 million cos he 'didnt like' blood tests? So that dont seem at all suspicious in anyway to you?
Re: Resumes - Mayweather vs Pacquiao
FLOYD
130 - Diego Corrales
135 - Jose Luis Castillo
140 - Arturo Gatti
147 - Carlos Baldomir
154 - Oscar Dela Hoya
Kickers : Genaro Hernandez, Zab Judah
PAC
112 - Chatchai Sasakul
122 - Lehlohohnolo Ledwabba
126 - Marco Antonio Barrea
130 - Juan Manuel Marquez
135 - David Diaz
140 - Ricky Hatton
147 - Miguel Cotto
Kickers : Erik Morales, Oscar Larios
:D
Re: Resumes - Mayweather vs Pacquiao
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InTheNeutralCorner
CFH, I agree with you there. I don't consider Manny as an average fighter as much as I also don't consider Floyd an average boxer. I just posted the question to those who, as generalbulldog said, deem him as inferior in boxing and got fighters that were shot. Why did the undefeated Floyd demand for a rigid blood test? Where then did the suspicion of PED use came from?
And to answer eagle's question, just because Manny was filmed taking the blood test, that doesn't necessarily mean that he liked it. It was required of him by the boxing commission.
Oh so now he gave up 40 million cos he 'didnt like' blood tests? So that dont seem at all suspicious in anyway to you?
You can also turn your statement around and say that Floyd gave up on 40 million cos he didn't like Manny wanting for the blood test to be taken 24 days before the fight. He gave up on the 40 million because of the 10 days difference (24 days vs 14 days). And I have already answered your second question when I wrote a few comments back that "The refusal to accede to the demand also placed Manny under suspicion".
Now my question to you eagle is: Are you one of the posters who does not believe Manny has an impressive accomplishment? If you are, then I am just curious as to what your take is on my question above. If you are not, then that question is not for you.
And miron_lang, that's a nice list that you have but I won't put David Diaz in there. I would consider Pacquiao's win over dela Hoya as more spectacular than that. Although people would say that Oscar was a shell of himself and weight drained, Manny jumped 2 weight divisions and was a heavy underdog when he faced him. Whether it's worthy to be placed in that list is debatable.
