Re: US students kicked of school campus for wearing US flag t-shirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
I'm sure some of those over the Atlantic will know of this story, but I have only just read about it. So, basically a bunch of American kids decided to wear clothing with the US flag on a Mexican holiday at their school. It just so happens that there are a lot of Mexican kids at the school too, so in order not to cause offence the kids were asked to take off their bandanas and turn their t-shirts inside out. They refused and subsequently got sent home.
Now is it only me that thinks that this is one serious overreaction? I mean, these kids are American and it is their own country right? Surely it's not an offence to anyone to wear your own national colours? It's like me trying to order all the Koreans to take down their national flags because it's St Georges day and they shouldn't offend me. It seems a bit ludicrous to me. If I want to be around only Mexican colours surely I should go back to Mexico? Those kids did nothing wrong in my eyes and they should not have been punished.
What are your thoughts on this? The link is kindly provided below.
Students Kicked Off Campus for Wearing American Flag Tees - NBCBAYAREA- msnbc.com
Be interesting to see how often the kids on question wore their national colours shirts on other days.
If they're choosing to wear it only on this specific day then it suggests they are wearing it to get a rise out of someone. If this is the case then the school acted correctly.
I aren't a fan of patriotism anyway. It's bizarre.
Re: US students kicked of school campus for wearing US flag t-shirts
Quote:
But to many Mexican-American students at Live Oak, this was a big deal. They say they were offended by the five boys and others for wearing American colors on a Mexican holiday.
:confused:
This is the problem with people today, way too up tight about past incidents and issues. The thing is, IT'S IN THE PAST AND CAN NEVER BE CHANGED. So, why continue to make a huge deal about it? What are they achieving exactly with this unnecessary resentment (except torturing themselves)?
Now don't get me wrong, it seems the flag clothing was almost worn in provocation, but the fact is, why is it provocative to people today? What bearing has the past got on what is happening right now? Unless these Mexican students were beaten and anally raped by those same guys as they chanted 'USA! USA! USA!' or something, only then can you understand them getting upset about the situation. But, I'm guessing that never happened and they are just more of these ignorant fools that continue to live in a past that never affected them. :rolleyes:
Hell, on St. Patrick's day this year I saw a group of English guys walking around Dublin, one was wearing an England t-shirt. Did I get offended? Of course not. I thought he was pretty brave because there are fools out there (just like our Mexican friends in this article,) but to take offense to stuff like this? I suggest you look at the bigger problems we have in the world to deal with.
Re: US students kicked of school campus for wearing US flag t-shirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
I don't know this is one of the few times where I might actually side with political correctness.
The school just behaved appropriately. Look at the shitstorm that was cooked up in the UK a few months back when the Muslims wanted a peaceful march through Wooten Basset, which just happened to be the town famous for honouring dead UK soldiers killed in Afghanistan.
There were so many protests that they actually rushed a new law in to outlaw this groups freedom of speech in order to protect against a riot they said.
What's the difference here exactly?
They obviously don't want to risk fighting at school so they sent them home.
I seem to remember all of you being opposed to the Muslim march so why the change of heart here?
The flag wearing brigade sound like a bunch of incendiary minded twats to me.
But why are the Mexicans getting upset by a bunch of kids wearing a specific set of colours? Surely they need to appreciate that not everyone wants nor should need to go along with what they feel their customs are?
Fine celebrate your day, but don't expect everyone else to chime in with the same chords. Rise above it and move on, it is a free country.
They aren't asking other people to celebrate. But deciding to wear your own flag on that day is clearly just to provoke a negative reaction, what other possible reason would there be for it other than to display aggression and hostility to the Mexicans?
How is it any different from the Wooten Bassett march? The muslims were allowed to march anywhere except through Wooten Bassett, because that is the place famous in this country for mourning our dead servicemen and women.
Clearly it was thought (by the entire non Muslim population of Britain) that the decision to march through Wooten Bassett was a deliberate attempt to dishonour our soldiers and thus there was an outcry.
How could you interprete this in any other way than to suppose they were deliberately trying to dishonour the Mexicans?
There are a lot of fucking nutters in American schools, there have even been shootings and killings so the principle obviously did what he had to do in the interests of the safety of the students and to prevent any conflict escalating.
You're arguing for the right to make a point, but surely it's more important for us to have unity and solidarity.
Instead of having a mindset of antagonism why not a mindset of friendship and empathy? Go to college, as an American and wear a Mexican flag to show your solidarity with your neighbors.
How much better would the world be if we could be just a little tolerant and inclusive rather than rant about our rights and freedoms.
I can't really use your Wooten Bassett example as a point of reference because it is a story that I'm not familiar with, but I don't really see the issue with them marching from what you have said about it. We all know my viewpoints on those pointless and possibly illegal wars though. If you are silly enough to sign up, then your head is gonna get the chop. If people want to protest through the areas where the dead might be resting, then so be it. I don't see the issue with that, but like I say I will need to read about that story some more.
This story is far less problematic than dissing the dead though. Okay, these kids might have been purposely disrespectful, but so what? What you wear is your own choice. Like I've said before, I am no nationalist, but how can you really get upset by someone wearing a national flag? If someone punched me on the nose I would be upset, but to wear a flag of any nation on this earth and from any time in its history? Is that really going to insult anyone with a modicum of sense? Come on now, it is their country. Maybe the Mexican immigrants should wear half American mixed with Mexican flags considering that their quality of life is from a place that is not called Mexico. It works both ways, let the Americans be and with their possible 'attitude', and let them with their vast majority in numbers wear their Mexican colours! I really don't see the dispute.
Re: US students kicked of school campus for wearing US flag t-shirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
I aren't a fan of patriotism anyway. It's bizarre.
Agree with that, people that are madly patriotic scare me quite frankly. THey are seriously missing the bigger picture... :-\
Re: US students kicked of school campus for wearing US flag t-shirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oggie
Quote:
But to many Mexican-American students at Live Oak, this was a big deal. They say they were offended by the five boys and others for wearing American colors on a Mexican holiday.
:confused:
This is the problem with people today, way too up tight about past incidents and issues. The thing is,
IT'S IN THE PAST AND CAN NEVER BE CHANGED. So, why continue to make a huge deal about it? What are they achieving exactly with this unnecessary resentment (except torturing themselves)?
Now don't get me wrong, it seems the flag clothing was almost worn in provocation, but the fact is, why is it provocative to people today? What bearing has the past got on what is happening right now? Unless these Mexican students were beaten and anally raped by those same guys as they chanted 'USA! USA! USA!' or something, only then can you understand them getting upset about the situation. But, I'm guessing that never happened and they are just more of these ignorant fools that continue to live in a past that never affected them. :rolleyes:
Hell, on St. Patrick's day this year I saw a group of English guys walking around Dublin, one was wearing an England t-shirt. Did I get offended? Of course not. I thought he was pretty brave because there are fools out there (just like our Mexican friends in this article,) but to take offense to stuff like this? I suggest you look at the bigger problems we have in the world to deal with.
What are you on about in the past? The Americans and Mexicans generally hate each other like English and Muslims do.
They are seen as seen coming into the US illegally, not trusted and not popular with large groups of America.
If there was a national Islam day in inner city schools in London, and a group of students turned up wearing t-shirts with Christian text and biblical quotations on them they would probably get sent home too.
And not becuase their rights weren't being acknowledged, but because the schools don't want trouble in the playgrounds!
Freedom of speech and human rights are important issues. Stunts like this just trivialise the whole thing.
Again, let's be clear, these student's weren't punished or suspended, they were sent home for that afternoon only because they refused to change out of their flag garb.
They were just trying to be inciteful, there is no other way of looking at it imo. The principle made the only sensible decision he could otherwise he could be accused of not protecting the rights of the Mexican kids at the school who likely felt offended.
It's people making a big deal out of nothing.
Re: US students kicked of school campus for wearing US flag t-shirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
But why are the Mexicans getting upset by a bunch of kids wearing a specific set of colours? Surely they need to appreciate that not everyone wants nor should need to go along with what they feel their customs are?
Fine celebrate your day, but don't expect everyone else to chime in with the same chords. Rise above it and move on, it is a free country.
They aren't asking other people to celebrate. But deciding to wear your own flag on that day is clearly just to provoke a negative reaction, what other possible reason would there be for it other than to display aggression and hostility to the Mexicans?
How is it any different from the Wooten Bassett march? The muslims were allowed to march anywhere except through Wooten Bassett, because that is the place famous in this country for mourning our dead servicemen and women.
Clearly it was thought (by the entire non Muslim population of Britain) that the decision to march through Wooten Bassett was a deliberate attempt to dishonour our soldiers and thus there was an outcry.
How could you interprete this in any other way than to suppose they were deliberately trying to dishonour the Mexicans?
There are a lot of fucking nutters in American schools, there have even been shootings and killings so the principle obviously did what he had to do in the interests of the safety of the students and to prevent any conflict escalating.
You're arguing for the right to make a point, but surely it's more important for us to have unity and solidarity.
Instead of having a mindset of antagonism why not a mindset of friendship and empathy? Go to college, as an American and wear a Mexican flag to show your solidarity with your neighbors.
How much better would the world be if we could be just a little tolerant and inclusive rather than rant about our rights and freedoms.
I can't really use your Wooten Bassett example as a point of reference because it is a story that I'm not familiar with, but I don't really see the issue with them marching from what you have said about it. We all know my viewpoints on those pointless and possibly illegal wars though. If you are silly enough to sign up, then your head is gonna get the chop. If people want to protest through the areas where the dead might be resting, then so be it. I don't see the issue with that, but like I say I will need to read about that story some more.
This story is far less problematic than dissing the dead though. Okay, these kids might have been purposely disrespectful, but so what? What you wear is your own choice. Like I've said before, I am no nationalist, but how can you really get upset by someone wearing a national flag? If someone punched me on the nose I would be upset, but to wear a flag of any nation on this earth and from any time in its history? Is that really going to insult anyone with a modicum of sense? Come on now, it is their country. Maybe the Mexican immigrants should wear half American mixed with Mexican flags considering that their quality of life is from a place that is not called Mexico. It works both ways, let the Americans be and with their possible 'attitude', and let them with their vast majority in numbers wear their Mexican colours! I really don't see the dispute.
It's the idea behind wearing the t-shirt that's the problem, especially if it's a t-shirt that was worn for that special occasion. It's the provocation. They might aswell have turned up with signs saying 'Fuck off back to Mexico....Amigo'. Sort of.
Re: US students kicked of school campus for wearing US flag t-shirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
But why are the Mexicans getting upset by a bunch of kids wearing a specific set of colours? Surely they need to appreciate that not everyone wants nor should need to go along with what they feel their customs are?
Fine celebrate your day, but don't expect everyone else to chime in with the same chords. Rise above it and move on, it is a free country.
They aren't asking other people to celebrate. But deciding to wear your own flag on that day is clearly just to provoke a negative reaction, what other possible reason would there be for it other than to display aggression and hostility to the Mexicans?
How is it any different from the Wooten Bassett march? The muslims were allowed to march anywhere except through Wooten Bassett, because that is the place famous in this country for mourning our dead servicemen and women.
Clearly it was thought (by the entire non Muslim population of Britain) that the decision to march through Wooten Bassett was a deliberate attempt to dishonour our soldiers and thus there was an outcry.
How could you interprete this in any other way than to suppose they were deliberately trying to dishonour the Mexicans?
There are a lot of fucking nutters in American schools, there have even been shootings and killings so the principle obviously did what he had to do in the interests of the safety of the students and to prevent any conflict escalating.
You're arguing for the right to make a point, but surely it's more important for us to have unity and solidarity.
Instead of having a mindset of antagonism why not a mindset of friendship and empathy? Go to college, as an American and wear a Mexican flag to show your solidarity with your neighbors.
How much better would the world be if we could be just a little tolerant and inclusive rather than rant about our rights and freedoms.
I can't really use your Wooten Bassett example as a point of reference because it is a story that I'm not familiar with, but I don't really see the issue with them marching from what you have said about it. We all know my viewpoints on those pointless and possibly illegal wars though. If you are silly enough to sign up, then your head is gonna get the chop. If people want to protest through the areas where the dead might be resting, then so be it. I don't see the issue with that, but like I say I will need to read about that story some more.
This story is far less problematic than dissing the dead though. Okay, these kids might have been purposely disrespectful,
but so what? What you wear is your own choice. Like I've said before, I am no nationalist, but how can you really get upset by someone wearing a national flag? If someone punched me on the nose I would be upset, but to wear a flag of any nation on this earth and from any time in its history? Is that really going to insult anyone with a modicum of sense? Come on now, it is their country. Maybe the Mexican immigrants should wear half American mixed with Mexican flags considering that their quality of life is from a place that is not called Mexico. It works both ways, let the Americans be and with their possible 'attitude', and let them with their vast majority in numbers wear their Mexican colours! I really don't see the dispute.
those three words sum up my thoughts exactly Miles. The principle didn't want to risk trouble in his school so he sent them home.
They are moaning about it but so what?
Kids got sent home for an afternoon, so what? stop whining you fucking antagonistic twats :D
Re: US students kicked of school campus for wearing US flag t-shirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oggie
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
I aren't a fan of patriotism anyway. It's bizarre.
Agree with that, people that are madly patriotic scare me quite frankly. THey are seriously missing the bigger picture... :-\
Me too. It is something I really don't connect with at all.
Getting on with a person is enough for me, I couldn't care less if they have a British passport.
Re: US students kicked of school campus for wearing US flag t-shirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oggie
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
I aren't a fan of patriotism anyway. It's bizarre.
Agree with that, people that are madly patriotic scare me quite frankly. THey are seriously missing the bigger picture... :-\
I just find the whole concept odd.
Re: US students kicked of school campus for wearing US flag t-shirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oggie
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
I aren't a fan of patriotism anyway. It's bizarre.
Agree with that, people that are madly patriotic scare me quite frankly. THey are seriously missing the bigger picture... :-\
Me too. It is something I really don't connect with at all.
Getting on with a person is enough for me, I couldn't care less if they have a British passport.
so why are you taking such a hardline patriotic stance here? The important thing is the Mexicans got to celebrate their national day. Why provoke them by draping yourself in the American flag?
Re: US students kicked of school campus for wearing US flag t-shirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
They aren't asking other people to celebrate. But deciding to wear your own flag on that day is clearly just to provoke a negative reaction, what other possible reason would there be for it other than to display aggression and hostility to the Mexicans?
How is it any different from the Wooten Bassett march? The muslims were allowed to march anywhere except through Wooten Bassett, because that is the place famous in this country for mourning our dead servicemen and women.
Clearly it was thought (by the entire non Muslim population of Britain) that the decision to march through Wooten Bassett was a deliberate attempt to dishonour our soldiers and thus there was an outcry.
How could you interprete this in any other way than to suppose they were deliberately trying to dishonour the Mexicans?
There are a lot of fucking nutters in American schools, there have even been shootings and killings so the principle obviously did what he had to do in the interests of the safety of the students and to prevent any conflict escalating.
You're arguing for the right to make a point, but surely it's more important for us to have unity and solidarity.
Instead of having a mindset of antagonism why not a mindset of friendship and empathy? Go to college, as an American and wear a Mexican flag to show your solidarity with your neighbors.
How much better would the world be if we could be just a little tolerant and inclusive rather than rant about our rights and freedoms.
I can't really use your Wooten Bassett example as a point of reference because it is a story that I'm not familiar with, but I don't really see the issue with them marching from what you have said about it. We all know my viewpoints on those pointless and possibly illegal wars though. If you are silly enough to sign up, then your head is gonna get the chop. If people want to protest through the areas where the dead might be resting, then so be it. I don't see the issue with that, but like I say I will need to read about that story some more.
This story is far less problematic than dissing the dead though. Okay, these kids might have been purposely disrespectful,
but so what? What you wear is your own choice. Like I've said before, I am no nationalist, but how can you really get upset by someone wearing a national flag? If someone punched me on the nose I would be upset, but to wear a flag of any nation on this earth and from any time in its history? Is that really going to insult anyone with a modicum of sense? Come on now, it is their country. Maybe the Mexican immigrants should wear half American mixed with Mexican flags considering that their quality of life is from a place that is not called Mexico. It works both ways, let the Americans be and with their possible 'attitude', and let them with their vast majority in numbers wear their Mexican colours! I really don't see the dispute.
those three words sum up my thoughts exactly Miles. The principle didn't want to risk trouble in his school so he sent them home.
They are moaning about it
but so what?
Kids got sent home for an afternoon, so what? stop whining you fucking antagonistic twats :D
But they shouldn't have been sent home.
It is an American school and they chose to wear American colours. It's not like they were there in full SS uniforms and Nazi caps. These Mexican kids are living in America and are likely quite well integrated, so why do they hate the US colours so much that kids need to be sent home?
I can rise above it and so can you, so why do we need knives and shootings on the part of the Mexicans? They are wearing some silly colours. Exactly, so what?
Re: US students kicked of school campus for wearing US flag t-shirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oggie
Agree with that, people that are madly patriotic scare me quite frankly. THey are seriously missing the bigger picture... :-\
Me too. It is something I really don't connect with at all.
Getting on with a person is enough for me, I couldn't care less if they have a British passport.
so why are you taking such a hardline patriotic stance here? The important thing is the Mexicans got to celebrate their national day. Why provoke them by draping yourself in the American flag?
Because I do believe that people should do what they want in life just so long as they don't hurt others. A Korean wrapped in a Korean flag isn't going to kill me.
Re: US students kicked of school campus for wearing US flag t-shirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Me too. It is something I really don't connect with at all.
Getting on with a person is enough for me, I couldn't care less if they have a British passport.
so why are you taking such a hardline patriotic stance here? The important thing is the Mexicans got to celebrate their national day. Why provoke them by draping yourself in the American flag?
Because I do believe that people should do what they want in life just so long as they don't hurt others. A Korean wrapped in a Korean flag isn't going to kill me.
Tolerance and respect come before assertion of rights imo.
And the principle did do what he wanted and didn't hurt anyone so what are you moaning about? :p
Re: US students kicked of school campus for wearing US flag t-shirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oggie
Quote:
But to many Mexican-American students at Live Oak, this was a big deal. They say they were offended by the five boys and others for wearing American colors on a Mexican holiday.
:confused:
This is the problem with people today, way too up tight about past incidents and issues. The thing is,
IT'S IN THE PAST AND CAN NEVER BE CHANGED. So, why continue to make a huge deal about it? What are they achieving exactly with this unnecessary resentment (except torturing themselves)?
Now don't get me wrong, it seems the flag clothing was almost worn in provocation, but the fact is, why is it provocative to people today? What bearing has the past got on what is happening right now? Unless these Mexican students were beaten and anally raped by those same guys as they chanted 'USA! USA! USA!' or something, only then can you understand them getting upset about the situation. But, I'm guessing that never happened and they are just more of these ignorant fools that continue to live in a past that never affected them. :rolleyes:
Hell, on St. Patrick's day this year I saw a group of English guys walking around Dublin, one was wearing an England t-shirt. Did I get offended? Of course not. I thought he was pretty brave because there are fools out there (just like our Mexican friends in this article,) but to take offense to stuff like this? I suggest you look at the bigger problems we have in the world to deal with.
What are you on about in the past? The Americans and Mexicans generally hate each other like English and Muslims do.
They are seen as seen coming into the US illegally, not trusted and not popular with large groups of America.
If there was a national Islam day in inner city schools in London, and a group of students turned up wearing t-shirts with Christian text and biblical quotations on them they would probably get sent home too.
And not becuase their rights weren't being acknowledged, but because the schools don't want trouble in the playgrounds!
Freedom of speech and human rights are important issues. Stunts like this just trivialise the whole thing.
Again, let's be clear, these student's weren't punished or suspended, they were sent home for that afternoon only because they refused to change out of their flag garb.
They were just trying to be inciteful, there is no other way of looking at it imo. The principle made the only sensible decision he could otherwise he could be accused of not protecting the rights of the Mexican kids at the school who likely felt offended.
It's people making a big deal out of nothing.
Never said the school made a wrong decision to send them home, but now that you say it, it depends on if there was trouble starting or not. To just send them home without a proper reason is wrong... if tensions were rising, then the principal made the right decision because his job is to act in the interest of school safety. But, if there were no tensions rising, the principal was basically making a big deal about nothing and almost encouraging the division between the students.
My reference to the past is more a general reference to countries with long, drawn out, controversial pasts. I know Mexico and America were at war before (though I could be wrong, it's not my specialist area), but I'm not sure how much that means to them today. If they have no disputed past to speak of, then the Mexican students are overreacting even more.
As I said, I saw an English guy wearing an England t-shirt in Dublin on our national day and, while he got my attention with his bravery, he certainly didn't offend me. Obviously, he got my attention because of Ireland and England's history... but if I saw a Polish guy wearing a Poland t-shirt on St. Patrick's day, I (and a lot of those people that would work themselves into a frenzy about the English guy) wouldn't even think twice about it... and just to be clear, the Polish are to the ignorant Irish people what Mexicans are to ignorant Americans. ;)
Again, I'm not attacking the schools decision to send them home as I don't know exactly what was going on in there, but I'm more attacking the stupidity in general of taking offense to the insignificant things in life.
Re: US students kicked of school campus for wearing US flag t-shirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
so why are you taking such a hardline patriotic stance here? The important thing is the Mexicans got to celebrate their national day. Why provoke them by draping yourself in the American flag?
Because I do believe that people should do what they want in life just so long as they don't hurt others. A Korean wrapped in a Korean flag isn't going to kill me.
Tolerance and respect come before assertion of rights imo.
And the principle did do what he wanted and didn't hurt anyone so what are you moaning about? :p
Well, on there we will have to differ.
He hurt the rights of American kids who wanted to be punky flag bearers. And they had every right to do so. You can't just call the police because you are white and see a black person in the neighborhood sporting an afro. He might have been a psycho, but that's not the point. You are allowed to express yourself in a civil society. If the Mexicans are getting so upset by that, then maybe they need a bit of self reflection....and deportation orders.
