Andre Ward Wasn't That Impressive vs Sakio Bika.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

I was very impressed by him. It's taken me a long long time to warm to Ward, largely because in his early fights & up till and including the Kessler fight he was doing really irritating technical things that wind me up (holding his jab out) maybe because they're also mistakes I make in the ams & I don't like to see a top pro doing that. But, the Green & Bika fights have won me over. This is a guy willing to improve the all round facets of his game & fight his opponent's fight to do it. I was more impressed by how he beat Bika then I was by how Joe or Bute did it, because he fought Bika's fight and still beat him by the same margin on my card. It also answered the doubts I had about his chin, as he took some tough shots off a big guy. I have to now be honest, I can't see any of these guys beating him.

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Explain that. Why is pawing with the jab poor form?

I was more impressed with Bute's win over Bika than Ward's because Bute forced Bika to fight Bute's fight, much like Ward did with Kessler.

I'd be interested to know who Bika thought was the toughest fight of the three.

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Did I say 'pawing with the jab'? No, I said holding his jab out. As in he would stick his jab hand right out & just hold it there, which you are not allowed to do in the rules & really shouldn't as a good inside fighter will also punish you for it. Watch the Kessler fight & you will see what I mean. It's an illegal move & it's also not good technique, albeit he gets away with it in Oakland.

Making an opponent fight your fight is impressive, but I'm always impressed when a guy takes the conscious decision to fight a guy in their kind of battle and wins (see PBF-Hatton/Mosley, Dawson-Johnson I or Alexander-Urango)

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Originally Posted by Taeth

He doesn't need to fight like that, he chooses to. He wanted to really fight Bika, and beat him at his own game, and Ward did that. Big props to him. He has also shown he can box effectively from the outside if he wanted to do, but he honestly one of the best inside fighters in the sport, to go along with better skills on the outside, and that's where his bread and butter is. I liken him to Hopkins and MAyweather in that he is a guy who can truly adapt in the ring, and has skills in all aspects of boxing, literally he can do anything he wants in there at the highest level. But he reminds more of Hopkins because like Hopkins he doesn't have very many punches in his arsenal, and he uses rougher style like Hopkins in there, but he is immensely effective and intelligent in the same way as Hopkins. The only guy I really see having a chance of beating him doesn't want to fight him. I think Dirrell could change a fight with Ward because of his skills, amazing speed, and something explosive power but I doubt he would beat Ward regardless of his athletic abilities. This guy is a truly talented fighter who works his ass off and he is naturally gifted.

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EXACTLY!! That is what made the wion impressive not the fact he won but he did it in a style that was not his but the other fightersw and beat him in his own game....That takes talent.....That says without words..."I want to do it all and I am not afraid to take chances to accomplish my goal"....He is 26...by time he is 30 the man will be a P4P fighter easily if not sooner.....

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

I was very impressed by him. It's taken me a long long time to warm to Ward, largely because in his early fights & up till and including the Kessler fight he was doing really irritating technical things that wind me up (holding his jab out) maybe because they're also mistakes I make in the ams & I don't like to see a top pro doing that. But, the Green & Bika fights have won me over. This is a guy willing to improve the all round facets of his game & fight his opponent's fight to do it. I was more impressed by how he beat Bika then I was by how Joe or Bute did it, because he fought Bika's fight and still beat him by the same margin on my card. It also answered the doubts I had about his chin, as he took some tough shots off a big guy. I have to now be honest, I can't see any of these guys beating him.

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Explain that. Why is pawing with the jab poor form?

I was more impressed with Bute's win over Bika than Ward's because Bute forced Bika to fight Bute's fight, much like Ward did with Kessler.

I'd be interested to know who Bika thought was the toughest fight of the three.

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Did I say 'pawing with the jab'? No, I said holding his jab out. As in he would stick his jab hand right out & just hold it there, which you are not allowed to do in the rules & really shouldn't as a good inside fighter will also punish you for it. Watch the Kessler fight & you will see what I mean. It's an illegal move & it's also not good technique, albeit he gets away with it in Oakland.

Making an opponent fight your fight is impressive, but I'm always impressed when a guy takes the conscious decision to fight a guy in their kind of battle and wins (see PBF-Hatton/Mosley, Dawson-Johnson I or Alexander-Urango)

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I gotcha. I remember it from the Kessler fight.

I thought Andre was the new Roy Jones but he is not that good but he is the best super middle at this moment in time.

Master you aren't alone in thinking he was the new Roy Jones, Andre Ward thought he was the new Roy Jones too. I've seen a ton of Ward fights coming up the untelevised ones too and he would alwaaays taunt and keep his hands down and just act like a fool. Then suddenly he just got smarter around the time he fought Jerson Ravelo and now he is what he is today. I give respect to the Goosens and Virgil Hunter for bringing him up the right way, not rushing him along early when he just wasn't ready because I can assure you he wasn't. He knows it too.

As for his fight with Bika, it kind of goes both ways. He won more rounds imo then Bute did. People forget that after 6 rounds of the Bute bout it was damn near even. I think the comment I made was that in the first half of the fight Bute was boxing like a poor man's Kessler and in the second half he was more of a poor man's Calzaghe. He was ridgid and overly mechanical in the first half of the fight but when he started bouncing on his toes he was much more effective. So it's not like that fight was a wash.

Bika has improved too imo since those bouts. I think Ward did what he wanted to do like others have mentioned and even if he didn't force someone else into his fight like he has done so often in the past, I think he wanted to prove something. He did a good job. He landed almost all the clean, effective punches in that bout. I'm proud that people have taken to my Hopkins comparision too because I swear I was the first with that. Also, he showed he has tenacity and that intentional elbow was viscous but it just goes to show that he's not soft and not to be fucked with.

Ward will be P4P #1 one day.

No shame in not being the next Roy Jones, there can only be one.

Ward will be top of the p4p ranking when he beat Froch and Bute, which I think he will do.

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Originally Posted by Master

No shame in not being the next Roy Jones, there can only be one.

Ward will be top of the p4p ranking when he beat Froch and Bute, which I think he will do.

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Won't he have to face Kessler again after Froch? Personally, I would very much like to see Bute fight Kessler.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by Master

No shame in not being the next Roy Jones, there can only be one.

Ward will be top of the p4p ranking when he beat Froch and Bute, which I think he will do.

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Won't he have to face Kessler again after Froch?

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His next fight should be AA, should he win that then Froch, (should Carl beat Johnson) which makes him the winner of the tournament, that leaves him free to fight Bute. This is in an ideal world.

Yea no, I was assuming if he beat AA and Froch, I'm pretty sure Kessler gets to fight the winner first?

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Yea no, I was assuming if he beat AA and Froch, I'm pretty sure Kessler gets to fight the winner first?

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Did not realise that, but Andre beat him anyway and Froch keeps saying he retired him.

Kessler Bute would be great while Froch and Ward faced off.
Can't remember if the timing is right, but just seems common sense for the winner of Kessler Bute could face the super 6 champ, that's not if contracts aren't already in place. Best against the best.

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Originally Posted by ukboxingwatcher

Kessler Bute would be great while Froch and Ward faced off.
Can't remember if the timing is right, but just seems common sense for the winner of Kessler Bute could face the super 6 champ, that's not if contracts aren't already in place. Best against the best.

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As long as Kessler is healed by then, I completely agree.

theres a little bit of the bernard hopkins about ward with all the headbutts elbows.....i like ward lol

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Ward doesn't remind me of Mayweather at all. He reminds much more of the veteran Hopkins. A younger Hopkins to me was much more explosive and dynamic, evidenced by the fact that he was consistently knocking people out. People only began finding Hopkins boring to watch when he learned to adapt after losing some of his speed with age. Ward may have the speed but already is fighting like a veteran. When was the last time Ward knocked anyone out (seriously, I don't mean to be facetious)?

So far, Ward hasn't given me much reason to believe that he is athletic, more that he is an amazingly skilled boxer. I think that is the reason why Taeth believes Dirrell could give him trouble (and also why Bute may give him trouble) because Dirrell is significantly more athletic. Personally, I believe Dirrell doesn't have the mental toughness to beat Ward. Ward would adapt, Dirrell wouldn't (See the Froch fight).

I also have yet to see Ward fight very much from the outside. His inability to fight on the outside may be his main weakness (although it might not matter because he is so good one the inside), why he never knocks anyone out, and why he fought on the inside against Bika. Or maybe the reason he doesn't knock anyone out is because he isn't very powerful?

Ward won against Bika, but it wasn't an easy win. There weren't really any rounds where he completely dominated (mayeb one or two). Bika was in the fight the whole time and Bika actually suprised and impressed me. He did better than Kessler and Green did against Ward - that much is certain. If Bika was a tough outing for Ward, he would be a tough outing for anyone at 168 other than Bute who already thoroughly beat him.

Compare Ward's performances against Bika and Miranda to Bute's performances against them. Bute dominated both in a much easier fashion. And Miranda was brutally knocked out by Bute in the 4th round - Ward beat him on the cards. To me, Ward's victory over Kessler was more impressive than his win over Bika because he forced Kessler to fight his fight when Kessler would have preferred to fight at a range. I do believe that some of that was because the fight was in Oakland and the ref allowed excessive holding and headbutting/elbowing, which is why I'm interested in seeing a rematch on neutral ground when the S6 is done. Still, no matter what Kessler fans may say, it was impressive.

A Bute-Ward fight on neutral ground would be a great fight because I would love to see if Ward could force Bika to fight on the inside. A Froch-Ward fight isn't as interesting to me because I'm not sure Froch is fast enough to tag Ward.

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I think Ward's athleticism is pretty obvious, he has great reflexes, much better than average handspeed and elite level footspeed. I think Ward would find a way to beat Dirrel for sure, but he doesn't have a great right cross yet, which I think is a huge flaw against a southpaw like Dirrel can be. Even though we don't see the same adaptability in Dirrell I would disagree about him in the Froch fight, I think he adapted, but he just did it too late. We saw him control the fight early, then Froch got dirty and made it an ugly fight, then Dirrell changed from a boxer to a fighter and he hurt Froch late, and honestly should have won that fight. Froch was given way too much credit for a lot of illegal bullshit in that fight, and I give Dirrell props for the way he adapted and hurt Froch badly late in the fight. Ward though would have adapted much quicker, and would against Dirrell as well, but Dirrell would always have that chance of landing one fight changing punch that nobody else in the division might be quick or skilled enough to land on Ward. Hate Dirrell for all the reasons you want, but he is an exceptional fighter.