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Cherry pick huh? You think Pacquiao picked easy opponents? Oh so you think Marquez also has the ability to inflict the kind of damage like Pacquiao did against these guys...Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
De La Hoya
Hatton
Cotto
Clottey
Margarito
I wanna see Marquez outdo Pac. I wanna see Marquez prove what Pacquiao did to those guys were ordinary.
PSL,
marquez doesn't have nothing to prove to pacquiao. he's already made him look ordinary twice in beating him. and do you really, really think these welters of today can compete with the duran's, sugar ray leonard's, thomas hearns, wilfredo benitez, etc...
hatton - overrated fighter and you know it. his only great win was against a very old and end of his rope, kostya tszyu. he almost got ko'd by juan lazcano, for crying out loud. besides, he was just a mayweather leftover.
de la hoya - okay, great win against a dangerously dehydrated fighter who would have lost to any good fighter at welterweight that night. roach said he knew pacquiao would KO him because he saw needle marks on oscar's arm. do you really think the world saw the very best of oscar that night?
clottey - here is a very imposing physical specimen with zero heart. the man just wanted to survive that fight and take a retirement paycheck. of course pacquiao looked great. clottey wasn't punching back for reasons nobody can understand.
cotto - a great victory for pacquiao. i honestly thought cotto would beat him and he beat him fair and square. but come on now, do you really think pacquiao really, really deserved that world title at a catchweight? seriously? come on now, everyone's going to read this.
margarito - another surprise from pacquiao but at another catchweight for another world title. do you really think these world titles are truly legit? in the world of boxing today, world titles don't mean much unless you defend them multiple times. that's the true measure of a great champion.
look, again i'm not belittling pacquiao's accomplishments because they have been many but to say he's the GOAT or top 10 all-time is ludicrous. he's first and foremost an offensive fighter and by dehydrating his opponents, it weakens them greatly. now i know why pacquiao wouldn't take those blood tests, because arum never wanted this fight to begin with. let's see, refusing a blood test for 40 million dollars? just doesn't add up.
like i said, arum is an evil genius! he knows the inner workings of boxing and has carefully made pacquiao something that he quite isn't. but hey, great fighter. i always enjoy his fights!:D
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubin
Marquez has already shown how to outbox Manny Pac twice. Pac has looked great as he has climbed up the weight classes, but he has been selecting the opponents very carefully and that should not be overlooked. The last time Pac was in with an accurate, razor sharp counter puncher still in his prime he got outboxed.
If there was a Marquez who could carry himself at WW I would expect him to produce a similar result, but I just don't think Marquez at 37 can carry that kind of weight and be as effective.
The criteria for Pacquiao's team picking fights was not carefully make the match up. The criteria was the most money. Not the most money for the least risk, but the most money. No one knew he would beat the bigger opponents easily. I could go back to past threads an pull out prediction after prediction saying Pacquiao would get his ass beat because he is the smaller guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesThis.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubin
Marquez has already shown how to outbox Manny Pac twice. Pac has looked great as he has climbed up the weight classes, but he has been selecting the opponents very carefully and that should not be overlooked. The last time Pac was in with an accurate, razor sharp counter puncher still in his prime he got outboxed.
If there was a Marquez who could carry himself at WW I would expect him to produce a similar result, but I just don't think Marquez at 37 can carry that kind of weight and be as effective.
From that video, all I see 10 different, very effective, and difficult to defend against, attacks which Pac can throw at any one time..... That's tough for anyone... Not 10 ways to beat Pac at his own game..
I think it's more about finding Pac's tempo and Rhythm... As Khan was saying when he sparred with Pac, he got the better of him sometimes.. And that came from finding Pac's rhythm and using that against him...
Unfortunately opponents only have 3 or 4 rounds to figure it out, and by that time Pac is 3 or 4 rounds into pommeling through their defense and well dominating...
Marquez did so well because he either naturally had a similar rhythm and timing to Pac and could counter really well with his intelligent skill,,,, or he was able to find that rhythm really quickly...
DLH, Margarito, Hatton, all have their own Rhythm and could do nothing to adapt and got slogged for it... Margarito did try to match Pac but was just too slow to react...
I guess that is why Mayweather is SO dangerous for anyone, let alone Pac.. He barely takes 3 rounds to match the other fighter and start landing, and by the 6th round has turned the momentum of the fight completely in his favor.. And will barely lose a round after that... If he has even lost any to begin with....
Then why is Marquez desperate to fight Pacquiao to a point that he even went to the Philippines?Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
Yep, I'll give that to you. He made Manny looked beatable but that is nothing special because Morales already beat him. I am not even mentioning the two who stopped him early in his career. However, those two fights with JMM were so close and the record books had it as a draw and a win for Manny. As to who won those two fights is debatable but what is written on the record books is not.Quote:
he's already made him look ordinary twice in beating him.
None of us can tell what the outcome would be if the welters of today competes with those fighters of yesteryears. All we can do is make speculations. Your speculations about a fight between Manny and those fighters can be correct ...... but then again, they could be wrong.Quote:
and do you really, really think these welters of today can compete with the duran's, sugar ray leonard's, thomas hearns, wilfredo benitez, etc...
But did anyone ever think that Manny would knock him out in 2 rounds. Freddie Roach was mocked when he said three.Quote:
hatton - overrated fighter and you know it. his only great win was against a very old and end of his rope, kostya tszyu. he almost got ko'd by juan lazcano, for crying out loud. besides, he was just a mayweather leftover.
Did people also expect Manny to be well fit and be able to carry the weight and speed despite going up two weight divisions (three if we are not going to include that fight with Diaz which did not impress some)?Quote:
de la hoya - okay, great win against a dangerously dehydrated fighter who would have lost to any good fighter at welterweight that night. roach said he knew pacquiao would KO him because he saw needle marks on oscar's arm. do you really think the world saw the very best of oscar that night?
I agree that he just wanted to survive that fight just like Barrera wanted to survive in his second fight with Manny. It appears that Clottey's confidence in that fight is zero and that could be because he is facing Pacquiao. In his fight prior to that, Clottey gave Cotto hell in the earlier rounds. He didn't even try with Manny.Quote:
clottey - here is a very imposing physical specimen with zero heart. the man just wanted to survive that fight and take a retirement paycheck. of course pacquiao looked great. clottey wasn't punching back for reasons nobody can understand.
Pay no attention to the catchweight and just look at the fight for what it really is. Just pretend that Manny didn't win any title in this fight, would your opinion about the fight change?Quote:
cotto - a great victory for pacquiao. i honestly thought cotto would beat him and he beat him fair and square. but come on now, do you really think pacquiao really, really deserved that world title at a catchweight? seriously? come on now, everyone's going to read this.
If these world titles doesn't mean much, why do you keep paying attention to them? Let's just say Manny did not get the two world titles from his catchweight fights, would it changed what he accomplished in the ring?Quote:
margarito - another surprise from pacquiao but at another catchweight for another world title. do you really think these world titles are truly legit? in the world of boxing today, world titles don't mean much unless you defend them multiple times. that's the true measure of a great champion.
Who has been calling Manny the GOAT? You are the one who keeps bringing this up. With regards to his placement in the ATG, it would be up to the future generations, not our generation.Quote:
look, again i'm not belittling pacquiao's accomplishments because they have been many but to say he's the GOAT or top 10 all-time is ludicrous.
In Manny's 57 fights, how many of his opponents do you consider as dehydrated to have GREATLY weaken them? I know that Manny is the one who was dehydrated in one of his early fights.Quote:
he's first and foremost an offensive fighter and by dehydrating his opponents, it weakens them greatly.
That's already old news. What happened when Manny agreed to the blood test as per Mayweather's term? Floyd went on vacation.Quote:
now i know why pacquiao wouldn't take those blood tests, because arum never wanted this fight to begin with. let's see, refusing a blood test for 40 million dollars? just doesn't add up.
Arum may be an evil genius but he is not the one inflicting the blows nor absorbing them. And whatever despicable master plan Arum comes out with, there needs to be an excellent enforcer who can carry it out.Quote:
like i said, arum is an evil genius! he knows the inner workings of boxing and has carefully made pacquiao something that he quite isn't. but hey, great fighter. i always enjoy his fights!:D
Ah hindsight is 20/20 isn't it? If I'm not mistaken, a lot of people on this board picked Pac to lose to these so called "handpicked" opponents. The Hatton threads and the Cotto threads are prime examples. And after those victories it's "handpicked" opponents as the excuse along with a myriad of others such as weight drain, damage, aged, mediocre, too small, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesThis.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubin
Marquez has already shown how to outbox Manny Pac twice. Pac has looked great as he has climbed up the weight classes, but he has been selecting the opponents very carefully and that should not be overlooked. The last time Pac was in with an accurate, razor sharp counter puncher still in his prime he got outboxed.
If there was a Marquez who could carry himself at WW I would expect him to produce a similar result, but I just don't think Marquez at 37 can carry that kind of weight and be as effective.
It would have been great if they said this before the results took place. But all of a sudden people want to act like they're Nostradamus after the fact when they completely said a different thing prior to the fight.
This isn't just with Pacquiao but any boxer. I'm sorry to say this, but hindsight boxing fans are the worst of the lot.
Thats how it is. For any fighter but lately, its either Pac or Floyd. Everytime they go into a fight the same lot of haters will pick their oppenent, but after Pac or Floyd have dominated or won the fight. The oppenent is suddenly this and that. These clowns will do anything to discredit their accomplishments.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogAh hindsight is 20/20 isn't it? If I'm not mistaken, a lot of people on this board picked Pac to lose to these so called "handpicked" opponents. The Hatton threads and the Cotto threads are prime examples. And after those victories it's "handpicked" opponents as the excuse along with a myriad of others such as weight drain, damage, aged, mediocre, too small, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesThis.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubin
Marquez has already shown how to outbox Manny Pac twice. Pac has looked great as he has climbed up the weight classes, but he has been selecting the opponents very carefully and that should not be overlooked. The last time Pac was in with an accurate, razor sharp counter puncher still in his prime he got outboxed.
If there was a Marquez who could carry himself at WW I would expect him to produce a similar result, but I just don't think Marquez at 37 can carry that kind of weight and be as effective.
It would have been great if they said this before the results took place. But all of a sudden people want to act like they're Nostradamus after the fact when they completely said a different thing prior to the fight.
This isn't just with Pacquiao but any boxer. I'm sorry to say this, but hindsight boxing fans are the worst of the lot.
The best way to beat him imo is outdo his training routine and spar with TWO quick southpaws at the same time. Because thats basically what you're gonna encounter in the actual fight with Manny.