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Making something more complex doesn't mean that it's better. When you increase the options you increase the luck factor! This is profesional sport and you must be able to depend on your skills and not waiting to get lucky. If you add pocking, hitting in the groins, some knives and guns it will get much more complex, but first is this a sport event and how one can get profisiant in all aspects of it?
Completely agree with Bilbo here. Lyle, I should also point out that what you say about MMA having no rules is now completely untrue. This used to be the case, but the sport has involved in order to fall in line with commissions and avoided being banned. So now, there is plenty to learn, and plenty to understand, and as a result has made it a little more complex than boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Coulnd't disagree more. The ground game especially in UFC is incredibly complex.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I know you hate mixed martial arts but can you not see the illogicality of your view that adding more fight disciplines reduces complexity?
Mixed martial arts is far more complex than boxing, how could not be?
Yes boxing has all the subtleties and it's fist fighting aspect is more refinedand well honed, but there is more to learn overall in UFC unless you think 1x1 equals more than 5x1.
Has nothing to do with personal opinion. He's bang on the money. UFC is LIGHTYEARS ahead of boxing in terms of how they promote and the quality of product. Its not even compeditive.
And for those of you who say its too "WWE"... boxing has ALWAYS borrowed pro wrestling-like theatrics. The greatest HW of all time modeled his public persona and mannerisms after pro wrestlers like Gorgeous George. If there is a story or angle behind a fight, it makes people care more about the fight. Thats a fact. Do you guys think so many people would have bought the DLH/PBF fight if there wasn't so much hype and story behind it? If Floyd didn't play the villain and antagonize DLH and the fans?
For boxing to thrive, you need the "characters", stories and theatrics. Just as long as the action in the ring is genuine.
..... this is the same tyson who eats children and bites ears. So seeing him like ufc is no surprise.
So Tyson likes the thump of club atmosphere, bright lights, drinks flowing and women in short shorts? Surprise. I like watching his early explosive bouts too. Better then his late stuff. All this talk about mma surpassing boxing as a whole etc. Give me a break. Its an INFANT in the promotion arena and as a well known in the spotlight sport. When it chalks up 100 yrs, then thump your chest. Its benefiting and fully utilizing technologies NOW because its what it knows...'loud' draws attention. Boxing had to evolve and is rooted in crusty, dusty B&W film reels from days none of us can relate to with names no one, save for Bert Sugar, has actually seen live in the ring. Its brought the Country to a stand still along racial and world war fronts. Sold out major sports venues early on and exploded with the birth of television and multiple networks and has continued ahead into the cyber world we know now. mma is not some flash in the pan and will be around a long time but perspective is key, it is in fact riding a wave of being the 'Flavor of the month'....and frankly rides boxings coat tails quite a bit. Grab the ear of an old timer if your lucky enough, talk to them how the presentation of the sport has grown and where it is today as opposed to its first, second, or sixth decade of existence.
That's a fucked up thing to say Mike.
I was a big boxing fan for years and while I still follow the sport it has been overtaken by MMA as my favorite combat sport for two reasons. 1. Whether it was Pride, UFC or Strikeforce, they made the fights I wanted to see for the most part and in a timely manner. Outside of competing orgs I can't think of many times where a fight needed/should happen and didn't. 2. I know entertainment is subjective and obviously I am going to lean to MMA b/c I train in submission grappling but I feel I get more bang for my $50 when I buy a MMA PPV versus a boxing. It is a minimum of 5 televised fights and I am usually very interested in more than half of them where with boxing I feel pretty lucky if I am interested in anything other than the main event.
Mike is one of those guys who pays most of his attention to the heavyweights. Yeah if you go by heavyweights boxing is boring as fuck right now. UFC is alright, they are making the fights people want to see. Boxing seems more like a bunch of protected trash talkers who would rather say they are the best than go out and prove it. I dont know if its just the promoters or what, but I would like to see more of the best fighting the best. I am also sick of seeing guys win close decisions or bad decisions then taking forever to rematch. Also the judging in ufc seems alot more impartial. These homecooked decisions are really killing boxing. UFC has way less weight classes, and you dont see them bitching about a few pounds here or there. I still like boxing by far, but it needs to get back to its roots.
Why would Tyson or any non-hardcore boxing fan know who Montiel and Donaire are? Neither are superstar names outside the hardcore. They sold 3000 tickets and split $600,000 (Donaire $350,000, Montiel $250,000).
Absloute peanuts compared with many a LESSER fighter in the sport. The smaller men have never been big news (with a few exeptions of course).
If Tyson said he didn't know who Mayweather or Pacquiao were, then boxing would have a problem.
Basically Tyson said he enjoys the UFC over boxing because of the VIP treatment he gets. Dana is obviously a good host. That's it.
It's not just the smaller fighters. I remember in '09 after Haye just become "world" HW champion after beating Valuev and your own British network BBC or something like that asked him what he thought of Haye, he said he doesn't know who he was.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Of course just a few months ago when he sat down with Johnny Nelson he gave his own opionion if Haye could beat the Klits or not. So now he knows.
You've got that mixed-up. Tyson was on a speaking tour in Britain around the time Haye fought Valuev and was asked numerous times about the fight, giving Haye advice on beating a giant and stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogIt's not just the smaller fighters. I remember in '09 after Haye just become "world" HW champion after beating Valuev and your own British network BBC or something like that asked him what he thought of Haye, he said he doesn't know who he was.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Of course just a few months ago when he sat down with Johnny Nelson he gave his own opionion if Haye could beat the Klits or not. So now he knows.
However, I too remember Tyson saying he doesn't know who Haye was at one time. Which is perfectly understandable. The cruiser division has never been a glamour divison. So why would any non-hardcore American fan know a Britsh cruiserweight operating in Europe? Or a young British heavyweight?
Same thing as Donaire/Montiel. It doesn't matter how highly regarded you are as a boxer, If you are not in multi-million dollar matches, packing out Vegas casinos with famous celebs littered all over ringside, you wont be known outside the American hardcore. And just because Tyson is a former fighter it doesn't mean he still follows the sport.
Tyson now collects pidgeons. Seriously.
I read an article recently about how he loves them and they are his prized possesions. I think the guy is losing the plot a little.
Tyson has famously been into pigeons since he was a kid. He once beat up a load of big kids for messing with his pigeons.. so the story goes
The bastards ripped the heads off his pigeons. That's when he turned bad. So the story goes. I think he turned green and ripped his shirt too - not sure though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster