Re: Are these US protests significant?
I agree all public sector unions should be gotten rid of. It was interesting that Fire and Police were left out of the bill in Wisconsin. Maybe that was a bridge too far this time. It is not so much that public sector unions are evil rather that they can't help but exacerbate budget issues. If I want to work in that industry I have to join the union and pay a portion of my income to the union, which sure sounds like a racket to me. That portion of my income is used to pay union admin salaries and for political donations. Public sector unions donate a tremendous amount of money so more often than not the politician that negotiates the collective bargaining deal with the union is beholden to them for their elected position in the first place. Hence they do a crappy job of negotiating. Call me old fashioned but I'd much rather negotiate my own wage and benefits based on my personal merit rather than having what equates to an organized racket strong arming politicians.
Re: Are these US protests significant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghost
To the people involved in the protests, they matter. Are they significant?
About as significant as a British citizen, who currently lives in Korea, talking politics on a boxing forum, with a hard on against the US.
Not really.
JMO
I have nothing against the citizens of the United States and only wish them well, but there is no escaping the fact that middle America has been systematically taken apart for well over 30 years. And this is planned and deliberate. So, because I am British and live overseas, that automatically means that I should have no viewpoints about international politics and should certainly abstain from any opinions concerning the country effectively rules the world? Damn the BBC for covering the Libya crisis too, eh?
Once again you respond with nothing more than snide little comments. Whatever floats your boat.
Re: Are these US protests significant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghost
To the people involved in the protests, they matter. Are they significant?
About as significant as a British citizen, who currently lives in Korea, talking politics on a boxing forum, with a hard on against the US.
Not really.
JMO
I have nothing against the citizens of the United States and only wish them well, but there is no escaping the fact that middle America has been systematically taken apart for well over 30 years. And this is planned and deliberate. So, because I am British and live overseas, that automatically means that I should have no viewpoints about international politics and should certainly abstain from any opinions concerning the country effectively rules the world? Damn the BBC for covering the Libya crisis too, eh?
Once again you respond with nothing more than snide little comments. Whatever floats your boat.
It doesn't mean you can't have any viewpoints but be warned that people in the US will not take you seriously when you don't have any experience of what middle America is besides reading about it in news articles or being a foreign tourist that visited America for a few days or few weeks. So there are people that will not take you seriously.
Just like I don't like it when Americans talk about other countries that they have really no knowledge about besides at the most reading about the situation in news articles or just visiting that country for a few weeks as some tourist. Domestic issues of other countries let people that live there talk about it, because they know more of what goes on than some outsider.
And furthermore the US is a big place, middle America in California would be different than say middle America in North Dakota. It's not entirely the same and solutions of 1 size fits all is pretty lame.
And BTW, talking about some's country middle class is entirely another country's domestic issue not what I would call "international politics." In fact you know nothing about the situation here, hence why you are starting a thread entitled, "Are these US protests significant?"
Re: Are these US protests significant?
Not really sure what the right answer is but the American middle class has largely priced themselves out of a job. When my old man (71 yrs old) was a teenager a guy could graduate high school and walk into a job at the local factory/mill/plant where they eventually would earn enough to buy a home, send their kids to college and live a decent life. Whether Americans want to admit it or not they are competing in a global market. Hell even engineering jobs are being outsourced. If your aspirations are to work a blue collar gig then you have to be prepared that Juan in South American and Abu in Southwest Asia will do your job for a lot less. Combine that with the U.S. having the highest corporate taxes in the world and the prospect of a burgeoning middle class re-emerging in the U.S. isn't likely. Of course with the way we Yanks like to sue each other we can never have enough lawyers. :rolleyes:
Re: Are these US protests significant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghost
To the people involved in the protests, they matter. Are they significant?
About as significant as a British citizen, who currently lives in Korea, talking politics on a boxing forum, with a hard on against the US.
Not really.
JMO
I have nothing against the citizens of the United States and only wish them well, but there is no escaping the fact that middle America has been systematically taken apart for well over 30 years. And this is planned and deliberate. So, because I am British and live overseas, that automatically means that I should have no viewpoints about international politics and should certainly abstain from any opinions concerning the country effectively rules the world? Damn the BBC for covering the Libya crisis too, eh?
Once again you respond with nothing more than snide little comments. Whatever floats your boat.
It doesn't mean you can't have any viewpoints but be warned that people in the US will not take you seriously when you don't have any experience of what middle America is besides reading about it in news articles or being a foreign tourist that visited America for a few days or few weeks. So there are people that will not take you seriously.
Just like I don't like it when Americans talk about other countries that they have really no knowledge about besides at the most reading about the situation in news articles or just visiting that country for a few weeks as some tourist. Domestic issues of other countries let people that live there talk about it, because they know more of what goes on than some outsider.
And furthermore the US is a big place, middle America in California would be different than say middle America in North Dakota. It's not entirely the same and solutions of 1 size fits all is pretty lame.
And BTW, talking about some's country middle class is entirely another country's domestic issue not what I would call "international politics." In fact you know nothing about the situation here, hence why you are starting a thread entitled, "Are these US protests significant?"
I know little about the current protests, but I know quite a lot about the actions of the US government which have been systematically carried out for many decades. In that regard, I am probably more qualified than many American's to comment on recent US political activity, both domestic and international.
Generally speaking I am a person that follows issues, but as I have said previously, for the last few weeks, I have fallen out of usual patterns of behaviour. That is why I wanted to know what people in the US know of these protests. I know America is slightly larger than Mexico, but the TV news is national and informs everybody in much the same way. I was hoping to know something on those lines.
It is wrong for people to say that I hate America when it is only the corporate and political elite that I despise. I have a great affection for ordinary people no matter where they are from and that includes America too. The snide comments irritate me.
Re: Are these US protests significant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VictorCharlie
Not really sure what the right answer is but the American middle class has largely priced themselves out of a job. When my old man (71 yrs old) was a teenager a guy could graduate high school and walk into a job at the local factory/mill/plant where they eventually would earn enough to buy a home, send their kids to college and live a decent life. Whether Americans want to admit it or not they are competing in a global market. Hell even engineering jobs are being outsourced. If your aspirations are to work a blue collar gig then you have to be prepared that Juan in South American and Abu in Southwest Asia will do your job for a lot less. Combine that with the U.S. having the highest corporate taxes in the world and the prospect of a burgeoning middle class re-emerging in the U.S. isn't likely. Of course with the way we Yanks like to sue each other we can never have enough lawyers. :rolleyes:
To even go to university these days will set you back at least 50-100,000 dollars. Life is so much harder now and the jobs simply aren't there. Many of those factory jobs have been outsourced to places like China and the workforce has been largely unprotected and not been prepared to adapt to these changes. It is also another reason why young people seem to be turning to the military for security. It seems to me that the country has been run dry by the corrupt financial sector and excessive military spending. We can say that ordinary people have priced themselves out of work, but in truth real wages have stagnated for many decades and we now have ordinary families NEEDING two breadwinners just to stay afloat and even then that is supplemented by endless debt and credit. The population at large has got poorer whilst the rich are richer than ever before.
It is very serious and that is why I was interested to see that protests were starting to break out and I was kind of hoping that this was in some way a small mirror of what is happening in the middle east. I have been hoping that the poor, huddled masses would start to rise for a long time and that desire is not from any desire to see suffering nor pain nor to inflict hate. It is from a basic desire for all people to have a stable means of supporting themselves and their families through this hellaciously difficult thing we call life.
Re: Are these US protests significant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghost
To the people involved in the protests, they matter. Are they significant?
About as significant as a British citizen, who currently lives in Korea, talking politics on a boxing forum, with a hard on against the US.
Not really.
JMO
I have nothing against the citizens of the United States and only wish them well, but there is no escaping the fact that middle America has been systematically taken apart for well over 30 years. And this is planned and deliberate. So, because I am British and live overseas, that automatically means that I should have no viewpoints about international politics and should certainly abstain from any opinions concerning the country effectively rules the world? Damn the BBC for covering the Libya crisis too, eh?
Once again you respond with nothing more than snide little comments. Whatever floats your boat.
It doesn't mean you can't have any viewpoints but be warned that people in the US will not take you seriously when you don't have any experience of what middle America is besides reading about it in news articles or being a foreign tourist that visited America for a few days or few weeks. So there are people that will not take you seriously.
Just like I don't like it when Americans talk about other countries that they have really no knowledge about besides at the most reading about the situation in news articles or just visiting that country for a few weeks as some tourist. Domestic issues of other countries let people that live there talk about it, because they know more of what goes on than some outsider.
And furthermore the US is a big place, middle America in California would be different than say middle America in North Dakota. It's not entirely the same and solutions of 1 size fits all is pretty lame.
And BTW, talking about some's country middle class is entirely another country's domestic issue not what I would call "international politics." In fact you know nothing about the situation here, hence why you are starting a thread entitled, "Are these US protests significant?"
I know little about the current protests, but I know quite a lot about the actions of the US government which have been systematically carried out for many decades. In that regard, I am probably more qualified than many American's to comment on recent US political activity, both domestic and international.
Generally speaking I am a person that follows issues, but as I have said previously, for the last few weeks, I have fallen out of usual patterns of behaviour. That is why I wanted to know what people in the US know of these protests. I know America is slightly larger than Mexico, but the TV news is national and informs everybody in much the same way. I was hoping to know something on those lines.
It is wrong for people to say that I hate America when it is only the corporate and political elite that I despise. I have a great affection for ordinary people no matter where they are from and that includes America too. The snide comments irritate me.
Is that so? I live in California. You mind telling me what the domestic issues are right here in Caifornia? Can you do it without reading some news article? The point being you are not qualified or have ever lived here in the US to comment about our domestic issues (in any state) regarding jobs, immigration be it legal or illegal, health care, education, unions, the middle class, etc. And I find it really arrogant of you to say you would know more about these issues than the actual people living here.
But of course we live in the era of the internet, where from Google University any Tom, Dick, or Harry can become an "expert" in many fields of topics with a $20 dollar per month internet service.;);D
BTW, someone here hit the nail on the head about the situation here in general with regards to outsourcing jobs and skilled Americans be it white (some professions) or blue collar not getting the jobs because the companies prefer to hire someone whether here legally or illegally because they will work for less and sometimes without benefits. An example would be a place like that of Silicon Valley up in northern California that has many recent East Asian immigrants working there and that it's pretty hard to get a job even if you have a B.S. in say computer science because those immigrants are working for a lot less and most likely less benefits or any at all. I think at this time with a harsh economy the US does need to address the immigration issue, because when a graduate (someone I know) from some top school like UCLA with a B.S. in computer science can't get a job than it really is a major problem.
Re: Are these US protests significant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghost
To the people involved in the protests, they matter. Are they significant?
About as significant as a British citizen, who currently lives in Korea, talking politics on a boxing forum, with a hard on against the US.
Not really.
JMO
I have nothing against the citizens of the United States and only wish them well, but there is no escaping the fact that middle America has been systematically taken apart for well over 30 years. And this is planned and deliberate. So, because I am British and live overseas, that automatically means that I should have no viewpoints about international politics and should certainly abstain from any opinions concerning the country effectively rules the world? Damn the BBC for covering the Libya crisis too, eh?
Once again you respond with nothing more than snide little comments. Whatever floats your boat.
It doesn't mean you can't have any viewpoints but be warned that people in the US will not take you seriously when you don't have any experience of what middle America is besides reading about it in news articles or being a foreign tourist that visited America for a few days or few weeks. So there are people that will not take you seriously.
Just like I don't like it when Americans talk about other countries that they have really no knowledge about besides at the most reading about the situation in news articles or just visiting that country for a few weeks as some tourist. Domestic issues of other countries let people that live there talk about it, because they know more of what goes on than some outsider.
And furthermore the US is a big place, middle America in California would be different than say middle America in North Dakota. It's not entirely the same and solutions of 1 size fits all is pretty lame.
And BTW, talking about some's country middle class is entirely another country's domestic issue not what I would call "international politics." In fact you know nothing about the situation here, hence why you are starting a thread entitled, "Are these US protests significant?"
I know little about the current protests, but I know quite a lot about the actions of the US government which have been systematically carried out for many decades. In that regard, I am probably more qualified than many American's to comment on recent US political activity, both domestic and international.
Generally speaking I am a person that follows issues, but as I have said previously, for the last few weeks, I have fallen out of usual patterns of behaviour. That is why I wanted to know what people in the US know of these protests. I know America is slightly larger than Mexico, but the TV news is national and informs everybody in much the same way. I was hoping to know something on those lines.
It is wrong for people to say that I hate America when it is only the corporate and political elite that I despise. I have a great affection for ordinary people no matter where they are from and that includes America too. The snide comments irritate me.
Is that so? I live in California. You mind telling me what the domestic issues are right here in Caifornia? Can you do it without reading some news article? The point being you are not qualified or have ever lived here in the US to comment about our domestic issues (in any state) regarding jobs, immigration be it legal or illegal, health care, education, unions, the middle class, etc. And I find it really arrogant of you to say you would know more about these issues than the actual people living here.
But of course we live in the era of the internet, where from Google University any Tom, Dick, or Harry can become an "expert" in many fields of topics with a $20 dollar per month internet service.;);D
BTW, someone here hit the nail on the head about the situation here in general with regards to outsourcing jobs and skilled Americans be it white (some professions) or blue collar not getting the jobs because the companies prefer to hire someone whether here legally or illegally because they will work for less and sometimes without benefits. An example would be a place like that of Silicon Valley up in northern California that has many recent East Asian immigrants working there and that it's pretty hard to get a job even if you have a B.S. in say computer science because those immigrants are working for a lot less and most likely less benefits or any at all. I think at this time with a harsh economy the US does need to address the immigration issue, because when a graduate (someone I know) from some top school like UCLA with a B.S. in computer science can't get a job than it really is a major problem.
Get serious for a minute. Are you telling me that Kid Thunder knows more about US national politics than I do? Heck, you probably know more about British politics than my mother does. I wouldn't call you arrogant though, I would just say that you are more clued up. I don't even live in the UK and haven't for nigh on a decade, but I know that I am more aware than most British people when it comes to national politics. You can call it arrogance, but I call it taking an active interest and yes a lot of that comes from interacting with a computer. And for sure when it comes to individual states I am not so adept. Obviously when it comes to the internal frissions of your own state I expect you would know considerably more than I do. As an outsider looking in, I do alright though. I know that many states are carrying significant levels of debt and that in turn is causing considerable problems. California is looking extremely dicey right now.
Re: Are these US protests significant?
Everyone thinks unions are some kind of White Knights or something...They don't really go with the Capitalism theme though do they? Alot of people in unions tend to work less and get paid more, which is also in correlation to the amount of dues they have paid. The best workers don't get the job, senority does. Some unions are good, the ones that go against big corporations to get better working conditions/pay when it's necessary. Some just milk their members and even try to influence them politically as to how they should vote etc..... alot of corruption. It's not always standing up for the little guy.
Re: Are these US protests significant?
I should have done what I usually do when I want to find out something....turn to Chomsky. That's how busy I have been, I haven't even seen this and I usually listen to everything the great man says! Shame on me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFRadCGY_ao&NR=1
Re: Are these US protests significant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
No Contest
Everyone thinks unions are some kind of White Knights or something...They don't really go with the Capitalism theme though do they? Alot of people in unions tend to work less and get paid more, which is also in correlation to the amount of dues they have paid. The best workers don't get the job, senority does. Some unions are good, the ones that go against big corporations to get better working conditions/pay when it's necessary. Some just milk their members and even try to influence them politically as to how they should vote etc..... alot of corruption. It's not always standing up for the little guy.
That's the point of unions though, isn't it (or at least the ostensible reason for their existence)? They are supposed to serve as a buffer against the inherently exploitative nature of capitalism. Now, I would certainly agree that many (perhaps even most?) unions don't serve that purpose anymore and are - as VictorCharlie describes - basically a racket, but I think their original purpose was noble and necessary.
I can't really speak to the current situation in the States, but here in B.C. there are basically two powers which enslave our politicians: big labour and big business, and neither have the best interests of the citizenry at heart.
Re: Are these US protests significant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
I should have done what I usually do when I want to find out something....turn to Chomsky. That's how busy I have been, I haven't even seen this and I usually listen to everything the great man says! Shame on me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFRadCGY_ao&NR=1
All i have to say to Noam Chomsky is calm the fuck down ...jeez quit yelling so much:p...hehe, he's about to keel over, then what are you gonna do Miles, where will you go for validation?
Re: Are these US protests significant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghost
To the people involved in the protests, they matter. Are they significant?
About as significant as a British citizen, who currently lives in Korea, talking politics on a boxing forum, with a hard on against the US.
Not really.
JMO
I have nothing against the citizens of the United States and only wish them well, but there is no escaping the fact that middle America has been systematically taken apart for well over 30 years. And this is planned and deliberate. So, because I am British and live overseas, that automatically means that I should have no viewpoints about international politics and should certainly abstain from any opinions concerning the country effectively rules the world? Damn the BBC for covering the Libya crisis too, eh?
Once again you respond with nothing more than snide little comments. Whatever floats your boat.
What the BBC covers or does not, concerns me little. I am not British, nor do I care if the Queens farts in the middle of the street or in the middle of Buck House. Nor do I care about the "internal politics" of England or any other country, except for Australia, where I am currently living.
As for the rest of your post, that is your opinion, which correct me if I am wrong, no-body is stopping you from posting. But, by the way you react, you would deny me my right to voice my opinion on your posts.
I am getting so tired of hearing people from other countries, blaming the US for all their troubles. How about you get in the face of your government and tell them to cut all ties with US. See how fast you get laughed out of the office you might be in.
That's right, you'r not in England, you are in Korea.
As for Noam Chomsky, do not know him, never watched his shows, never heard his spiel. But if being on TV or You Tube means a person has more "weight" with their opinion. No problem. Can have a You Tube video up and running in about an hour on the "Benefits of Cake Eating" in the British Isles.
Oh before I forget, I am/was classed as middle class, blue and white collar worker, owned my own house, car and paid all my bills on time, all with out help from the US government or the English Crown.
I know what middle America is and what it means. Did not learn it from TV or You Tube. I lived it.
Re: Are these US protests significant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
I'm not a fan of Obama, but you know what I find hilarious? It's that a lot of people are blaming Obama for the multiple wars and the economic crises that he inherited. Like I said people have selective memory on who was president during the economic turmoil and the wars that the US is currently in.
That is all, you an argue among yourselves.
I'm probably the least knowledgeable person on such subjects, but to be fair, didn't Obama keep in all of the retards (aka financial controllers/experts) who blindly let (lead) the country into a gigantic economic meltdown?
Likes Miles said, there are probably 1000's of fraud cases, each one on an enormous scale, that just get let go.... The super and mega and even reasonably wealthy in America are above everything... That should be enough to make any everyday American furious...
